Anarcho-Capitalism

[SOCALHUSKER]

 

Actually I wouldn't be that surprised if it wasn't backed by statistical evidence. The website didn't look too reputable to me.

 

Now who's using opinions? I'm not arguing that I wouldn't also like to see the evidence from their claims, but did you actually go to their website or just to the study PDF? They are a security company and their website didn't look any less reputable than say that of ADT, Brinks, Protection, McAffee or even the LAPD!! What makes you say that their website didn't look reputable?

[carlfense]

 

Actually I wouldn't be that surprised if it wasn't backed by statistical evidence. The website didn't look too reputable to me.

 

Now who's using opinions? I'm not arguing that I wouldn't also like to see the evidence from their claims, but did you actually go to their website or just to the study PDF? They are a security company and their website didn't look any less reputable than say that of ADT, Brinks, Protection, McAffee or even the LAPD!! What makes you say that their website didn't look reputable?

 

The difference between my opinion and their opinion is that I am not presenting it as FACT . . . and I am certainly not presenting it in a spreadsheet. Their opinions are presented as facts. Mine are not. Simple enough?

 

The website does not look reputable to me because this grandiose annual study that they trot out does not explain how or where the data is from. I'm fairly sure that falls within the category of "disreputable."

[carlfense]

 

We have tried small, restrained government and seen it grow into large, unrestrained tyranny. This has happened in the United States ("Electronic Police State 2008, National Rankings" [ U.S. rank: 6th worst out of 52]; PDF) and to one extent or another in every nation that has ever tried to tame and reform government. Slowly at first and then with shocking speed, the original positive intent (assuming there ever was one) is subverted, corrupted, and eventually erased. The coercive power of government increases relentlessly and moves ever-more into the hands of those who lust for power.

 

 

I clicked on the link for this article . . . and explored their link "Electronic Police State," that the author claims is some sort of proof that the US is increasingly less "free." It's good for a laugh. The article even provides an Excel spreadsheet ranking their opinions (on a 1 to 4 scale) of how free each country is when compared to each other. How awesome is it that they gathered hundreds of their own opinions and put them into a spreadsheet?

 

Yeah, I sent them a message asking for an evidence key to their rankings, hopefully they get back to me soon. I'd be very surprised if that spreadsheet wasn't backed by evidence, wouldn't you?

 

Actually I wouldn't be that surprised if it wasn't backed by statistical evidence. The website didn't look too reputable to me.

 

I personally ignore most statistics. You can usually never tell if they were just made up. Even the most famous politicians spout off stats that they just made up. But I believe that oftentimes universities will have non-biases statistics that are actually accurate. Of course the wording is extremely important as well. If the wording of a statistic favors one answer over another, then I think it's safe to ignore it.

 

I don't put much faith in statistics either. However, I put even less faith in a system where they assign each country a number based on how free they feel it is. At least in statistics you can usually find a grain of truth. That's not always the case in opinions.

 

You're assuming the numbers are just based on opinion, and you know what assuming does!! Did you look at that study on the freest states I posted? They assign numbers based on a 5 pt scale, in exactly the same way. However, all their evidence, as one can plainly see, comes directly from state laws, arrest records, etc. Would you consider that opinion also?

 

Oh Socal. Don't you know when it comes to random internet sites it's safer to assume that they don't know what they are talking about than to assume that they DO know what they are talking about? There is at least as much BS on the internet as factual information. (in short . . . we're both assuming. You are assuming it's true, else you wouldn't be posting it. I'm assuming it's not factually based until they show me otherwise.)

 

And to some extent, yes I would consider your freest states survey to be partially opinion based. State laws aren't always directly comparable. Some police departments enfore/arrest people based on differing interpretations of the same law, etc. etc. etc. This leaves plenty of wiggle room for someone to massage data to fit with a desired result.

[SOCALHUSKER]

 

Oh Socal. Don't you know when it comes to random internet sites it's safer to assume that they don't know what they are talking about than to assume that they DO know what they are talking about? There is at least as much BS on the internet as factual information. (in short . . . we're both assuming. You are assuming it's true, else you wouldn't be posting it. I'm assuming it's not factually based until they show me otherwise.)

 

And to some extent, yes I would consider your freest states survey to be partially opinion based. State laws aren't always directly comparable. Some police departments enfore/arrest people based on differing interpretations of the same law, etc. etc. etc. This leaves plenty of wiggle room for someone to massage data to fit with a desired result.

 

Agreed!!

 

Edit: While I do agree with what you say carlfense. I still think the data projected is a fairly accurate representation of the freedom in EACH STATE. The topic of the paper wasn't about each individual entity in a state, but of the state as a whole. By taking into consideration the various laws of each state, the extent of those laws, and the overall application/enforcement of those laws, one can still arrive at a conclusion about the overall state. One can then compare this data to the data from other states and arrive at a logical conclusion. Whatever opinion the study-maker may have doesn't matter, because the data still represents what occured or what didn't, and as long as each state is directly and equally compared the data will remain accurate. Yes, it's not 100% percent accurate, which is why I agree with your statement of "partial-opinion" but I think for the most part it is fairly accurate.

 

One other factor not included in the study was the value each individual places on particular freedoms. Since we all value differently, the study can most definitely not be 100% accurate, but they did have a link to a program that allows you to weigh each freedom according to your value. Something I thought was pretty cool.

[SOCALHUSKER]

 

I clicked on the link for this article . . . and explored their link "Electronic Police State," that the author claims is some sort of proof that the US is increasingly less "free." It's good for a laugh. The article even provides an Excel spreadsheet ranking their opinions (on a 1 to 4 scale) of how free each country is when compared to each other. How awesome is it that they gathered hundreds of their own opinions and put them into a spreadsheet?

 

Yeah, I sent them a message asking for an evidence key to their rankings, hopefully they get back to me soon. I'd be very surprised if that spreadsheet wasn't backed by evidence, wouldn't you?

 

The authors of the study sent me back a message today, here it is.

 

Hi Robby,

 

Okay, an info dump for you.

 

These are the docs that were most useful, from Freedom House:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=445

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=15

 

This report, from Reporters Without Borders, was of some use:

http://www.rsf.org/IMG/pdf/rapport_en_bd-4.pdf

 

This one, from EPIC, is interesting, but mostly served as a “sanity check.”

http://epic.org/privacy/medical/

 

My favorite source for medical records issues was Dr. Thomas Dorman, a wonderful, kind, brilliant man, who most unfortunately passed away recently: http://blog.mises.org/archives/009608.asp

 

The well-known Heritage report was inspirational to us, but useful in this effort only for the “freedom from corruption” category. http://www.heritage.org/Index/Explore.aspx

 

Next year we’d like to work on this with an organization such as Cato, Reason, or Heritage. An alliance with them would allow us to produce a more thorough report, built on better statistics. We're not a huge

operation, and we can't just throw people at the job.... which is also why I don't have fancy documentation to send you. Sorry.

 

Here's another great pile of source material that just came out recently: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=13695

 

If we can help further, please let me know.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul Rosenberg

[SOCALHUSKER]

This site includes a fairly comprehensive list of Free Market Alternatives to the State. It includes everything from defense to education to guns and immigration. Swallow the red pill and take a look.