The Healthcare Bill

[74Hunter]

Ira, I agree and I disagree with you. Yes, we have good healthcare in America, but we're 15th among industrialized nations in healthcare - 37th when you factor in the cost (which isn't necessarily applicable, but can't be ignored). Socialized systems like Canada's and France's rank higher than ours. This notion that we don't have to fix anything in our system is wrong.

 

Where did you get this informatin that we're 15th of 37 industrialized nations in healthcare, behind Canada? I know that Canadians regularly come to the USA for services that they cannot get/cannot get in a timely fashion in Canada. I remember stories from just a few years ago (don't remember exactly when, but it was during Christmas time) when the Canadian health care system was about to shut down at the end of the year due to underfunding, and that patients were lined up in hallways because there was not enough rooms in hospitals.

 

Also, if you think that Canada's healthcare system is good and affordable, just compare the taxes they pay in Canada to the taxes we pay here. It's staggering.

[UGAHusker]

Although I am becoming more of an active researcher of the bill, at the end of the day, look for a lot of change and debate related to it in the coming weeks, months, and years. At this point, the bigger issue is not what is in the bill, but the legality and constituionality of the bill. The most popular perceived injustice at this point is the infringement of the bill on states' rights (taking away state option health coverage, mandating a federal option but no state option) while also infringing on the Interstate Commerce Clause (which, if you've done any legal study, you know that almost any federal regulation can be said to interfere with this clause). Some states, such as Virginina, go so far as to say that such a bill goes against everything that the state stands for (Virginia being the home of Thomas Jefferson, the quintessential anti-federalist, "every-man").

 

Being that the bill would not fully go into effect until 2014, I believe that between now and then, many federal district courts, courts of appeal, and ultimately the U.S. Supreme Court will continously debate the constitutionality of the bill, probably delaring it unconstitutional is a variety of ways. When this happens, Round 2 will begin and amendmants will be made to the bill in an attempt to appease the highest court. Of course, by this time, MANY of the congressmen and some senators who support/ed this bill will be ousted from Congres making the next go-around much more difficult.

 

At this point, I think we need to be looking at the composition of the Supreme Court who will most likely be the ultimate authority on this issue. Scalia, Alito, and Thomas are almost definite "no"s. Roberts is a probable "no". Stevens, Kennedy, Ginsburg, and Sotomayor would lean "yes" with Breyer on the fence.

[knapplc]

Where did you get this informatin that we're 15th of 37 industrialized nations in healthcare, behind Canada?

 

From the Wall Street Journal's analysis of WHO's information, which I posted just above your post. Here it is again, in case you missed it:

 

 

[irafreak]

An interesting thought though....in the bible a story is told of God's people wanting a king to rule over them...America asked for this man to be their king...and make no mistake our president sees himself as a better man that all of us. He promised to lower the bloody tides for crying out loud! What arrogance...

 

What is this about? When did Obama promise to lower the tides? If this is true I want to see it. If it's an exaggeration, that doesn't help you make your point.

I've heard the quote.

"I face this challenge with profound humility, and knowledge of my own limitations. But I also face it with limitless faith in the capacity of the American people… I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal… This was the moment – this was the time – when we came together to remake this great nation…"

 

Are you kidding me? I know politicians like to sound all important but really? With him in command we will slow the rise of the oceans and begin to heal the planet? Don't you think that's a bit thick?

[irafreak]

I really wish that republicans would stop with the "Were not listening to the American public" if we pass this bill . Like you all have listened before with the last 8 years, but now all of the sudden your here to make it all better... The Bi-Partisan bickering is driving me nuts. To me it just shows that the GOP wants nothing more but to regain the majority and to make Obama look foolish, but the more "liar and baby killer" rants are really helping their cause. One thing I will say is that this President has tried to follow through on his campaign promises, Health care in America is a sham right now anyway, IT NEEDS FIXED no matter how you slice it. Just my 2 cents guys!

I couldn't disagree with you more...

Our healthcare system was/is one of the best if not THE best in the world. If you have a life-threatening emergency the Dr's hypocratic oath will not allow them to turn you away. So this notion that people die all the time from no health coverage is not accurate. Second...IT'S NOT FREE!!! The real problem lies within the cost and as a medical student graduating in August I can tell you the majority of costs and headaches come from government mandated garbage like HIPAA that try to tell Dr's how to do their job and keep things confidential. Any dr worth anything already respects a patient's privacy.

 

What you will have from all of this is everybody beating down the doors of all the dr's offices whenever they sneeze because they can now afford to do so and the already over worked dr will now be overloaded. A fellow classmate of mine lived in England with their socialized system and he had a life threatening emergency (appendicitis) and it took almost 3 months to get him in for surgery and the DR there told him afterwards that they barely made it in time.

 

Combine this with the way obama is regulating people that make more money than others and people will stop going into the medical field because who wants long hard demanding hours and less compensation for it?

 

Our system isn't broken. It needs some modifications. Tell me someone you know personally that almost or did die from a situation like my classmate? This is a true disaster and it's going to still come down to who has the most money to get the treatment...because you can't tell me when it's life or death and the middle class man with nothing to offer (under the table) is competing for the doctor's immediate attention against the man that has a stash set back...

 

So this notion that we needed to fix something is foolish. Bipartisanship should NOT happen except in times of war. Our founding fathers drew up the constitution so that the President, Congress, and Judiciary would always be fighting so a super majority could never be gained. The government was meant to call the country to arms in her time of defense against enemies NOT be the big brother or father of us all. The people that still can't see the push for power that is being made...well you're lost for good.

 

An interesting thought though....in the bible a story is told of God's people wanting a king to rule over them...America asked for this man to be their king...and make no mistake our president sees himself as a better man that all of us. He promised to lower the bloody tides for crying out loud! What arrogance...

 

Sorry man, don't know how my comments generated something like that, but don't preach about personal issues. I lost my Dad at age 58 and my sister at age 26, so I really don't tend to hear how great our Health care is or to further dive into personal experiences. Everybody has their opinion on this and excuse me for not agreeing with yours, nor you with mine. Congrats on med school, great accomplishment! My sister in-law is a Dr and could not be happier to have her in the family.

You're gonna need her. And are you implying that you lost family members due to lack of funds or lack of proper treatment because that would have nothing to do with healthcare...

[irafreak]

Although I am becoming more of an active researcher of the bill, at the end of the day, look for a lot of change and debate related to it in the coming weeks, months, and years. At this point, the bigger issue is not what is in the bill, but the legality and constituionality of the bill. The most popular perceived injustice at this point is the infringement of the bill on states' rights (taking away state option health coverage, mandating a federal option but no state option) while also infringing on the Interstate Commerce Clause (which, if you've done any legal study, you know that almost any federal regulation can be said to interfere with this clause). Some states, such as Virginina, go so far as to say that such a bill goes against everything that the state stands for (Virginia being the home of Thomas Jefferson, the quintessential anti-federalist, "every-man").

 

Being that the bill would not fully go into effect until 2014, I believe that between now and then, many federal district courts, courts of appeal, and ultimately the U.S. Supreme Court will continously debate the constitutionality of the bill, probably delaring it unconstitutional is a variety of ways. When this happens, Round 2 will begin and amendmants will be made to the bill in an attempt to appease the highest court. Of course, by this time, MANY of the congressmen and some senators who support/ed this bill will be ousted from Congres making the next go-around much more difficult.

 

At this point, I think we need to be looking at the composition of the Supreme Court who will most likely be the ultimate authority on this issue. Scalia, Alito, and Thomas are almost definite "no"s. Roberts is a probable "no". Stevens, Kennedy, Ginsburg, and Sotomayor would lean "yes" with Breyer on the fence.

What is the most offensive is forcing people to buy healthcare or pay a fine. They're now claiming healthcare is a right (not in our constitution) since when is a right mandated?

[knapplc]

An interesting thought though....in the bible a story is told of God's people wanting a king to rule over them...America asked for this man to be their king...and make no mistake our president sees himself as a better man that all of us. He promised to lower the bloody tides for crying out loud! What arrogance...

 

What is this about? When did Obama promise to lower the tides? If this is true I want to see it. If it's an exaggeration, that doesn't help you make your point.

I've heard the quote.

"I face this challenge with profound humility, and knowledge of my own limitations. But I also face it with limitless faith in the capacity of the American people… I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal… This was the moment – this was the time – when we came together to remake this great nation…"

 

Are you kidding me? I know politicians like to sound all important but really? With him in command we will slow the rise of the oceans and begin to heal the planet? Don't you think that's a bit thick?

 

Not really. He's talking in candidate-speak about Global Warming. Yeah, it's over the top, but it jives with his "hopey-changey" mantra.

 

If you're going to throw him under the bus for that phrase, you may as well write off every politician out there. Which, coincidentally, wouldn't be such a bad idea.

[carlfense]

irafreak . . . do you go to UNMC? If so I bet I've met you a few times. Also . . . if doctors are so against this bill (I've heard some for it, and some against it) why did the American Medical Association support it?

[knapplc]

I have a doctor friend who was adamantly opposed to this bill. I haven't talked to him since the weekend, but I'm betting he's livid. He's sure it's going to cost him his practice.

[carlfense]

I have a doctor friend who was adamantly opposed to this bill. I haven't talked to him since the weekend, but I'm betting he's livid. He's sure it's going to cost him his practice.

I know some are furious . . . I know some others that are taking a "we'll see what happens" approach.

[knapplc]

We have our first yes vote on "I have read at least 200 pages of the Healthcare bill."

 

redfan, what can you tell us about what you read? I think a lot of us have questions, if you don't mind helping.

[EZ-E]

I came to the realization awhile ago that this is just a huge welfare bill like the stimulous bill was as well. It doesnt do too much for the middle classed people in America from what I have heard. All it really did was write out a bunch of hand outs to the poor. It is hard not to generalize that "poor" demographic of America.

[74Hunter]

We have our first yes vote on "I have read at least 200 pages of the Healthcare bill."

 

redfan, what can you tell us about what you read? I think a lot of us have questions, if you don't mind helping.

I think that the amount of people in this poll that has read 200 pages of this plan mirrors the number of people in Congress that has done the same.

[holvy83]

We have our first yes vote on "I have read at least 200 pages of the Healthcare bill."

 

redfan, what can you tell us about what you read? I think a lot of us have questions, if you don't mind helping.

I think that the amount of people in this poll that has read 200 pages of this plan mirrors the number of people in Congress that has done the same.

 

Probably true, I believe the Senate will have a fun time stringing this through their floor and many revisions and amendments will come out. Just as with everything in history it all takes time to play out.

[knapplc]

We have our first yes vote on "I have read at least 200 pages of the Healthcare bill."

 

redfan, what can you tell us about what you read? I think a lot of us have questions, if you don't mind helping.

I think that the amount of people in this poll that has read 200 pages of this plan mirrors the number of people in Congress that has done the same.

I would definitely agree. I have to wonder how much of any of these bills any of our congresspersons really read. I'm sure they have staffers who read a lot of it, but even still, when it's 2,000 pages long, that's a LOT of reading.

 

For way of comparison, I am a raging insomniac and I read every night. Since July, 2009 when this bill was introduced, I have read about 3,500 pages - but those are all novels. They're grown-up reading, but they're not legal-speak gibberish, and frankly it doesn't matter if I understand it. It's just to pass the time until I sleep. There's very little chance anyone read this bill in enough time to have a real debate on its merits/faults.