Occupy Wall Street

[krill]

Can't disagree with that. The problem is that companies can pay a Chinese worker 75 cents an hour where they would have to pay a US worker $8 an hour. If you are looking at it from a pure profit perspective (which I thought you would be doing) it is a no-brainer.

 

Manufacturing moving to China is more complex than just the labor cost component, which in many cases of lost production is only a small fraction of total cost. The Chinese government isn't in crisis mode every six months, they have built newer infrastructure to support industry, and perhaps the killer blow with consumer goods (what we often associate with Chinese crap) is the Chinese consumer market is aggressively growing while US consumers are tapped out with stagnant wages.

 

I think the solar panel industry is a nice case study in what's going wrong. The DoE gambles on a few solar startups, it's revealed that there may have been cronyism as play in one of the loans, and that engulfs the entire project in a scandal. Meanwhile the Chinese government is subsidizing their solar industry with direct investment, research, land grants, other guarantees, and absorption of losses from currency fluctuations and sales at loss. The Chinese are looking at the long term to control a massive future market while our industry withers on the vine with political gamesmanship.

[carlfense]

Can't disagree with that. The problem is that companies can pay a Chinese worker 75 cents an hour where they would have to pay a US worker $8 an hour. If you are looking at it from a pure profit perspective (which I thought you would be doing) it is a no-brainer.

 

Manufacturing moving to China is more complex than just the labor cost component, which in many cases of lost production is only a small fraction of total cost. The Chinese government isn't in crisis mode every six months, they have built newer infrastructure to support industry, and perhaps the killer blow with consumer goods (what we often associate with Chinese crap) is the Chinese consumer market is aggressively growing while US consumers are tapped out with stagnant wages.

 

I think the solar panel industry is a nice case study in what's going wrong. The DoE gambles on a few solar startups, it's revealed that there may have been cronyism as play in one of the loans, and that engulfs the entire project in a scandal. Meanwhile the Chinese government is subsidizing their solar industry with direct investment, research, land grants, other guarantees, and absorption of losses from currency fluctuations and sales at loss. The Chinese are looking at the long term to control a massive future market while our industry withers on the vine with political gamesmanship.

Agreed on all points. Another component is that the Chinese government keeps the yuan artificially low to make Chinese exports even more attractive. Not sure how the "totally free market" folks would explain China's success.

[knapplc]

[Excel]

[Guy Chamberlin]

It's a huge uphill battle for major manufacturing, but borrowing the "locavore" movement from the food and restaurant industry, there is a model for making things on an extremely local level, as opposed to merely being Made in the U.S.A.. Reduced transportation and storage costs, local employment, local pride and superior products make it easier to swallow a modestly higher price.

 

You also deal with people who truly believe in both the product and the philosophy. They are business people and free market entrepreneurs who are happy to be well-compensated, but do not feel the need to be insanely well-compensated, nor to make a bunch of fickle short term shareholders rich.

 

You can like money, capitalism and America and still hate the short-sighted greed of our unregulated Wall Street "jobs providers."

[strigori]

It's a huge uphill battle for major manufacturing, but borrowing the "locavore" movement from the food and restaurant industry, there is a model for making things on an extremely local level, as opposed to merely being Made in the U.S.A.. Reduced transportation and storage costs, local employment, local pride and superior products make it easier to swallow a modestly higher price.

 

You also deal with people who truly believe in both the product and the philosophy. They are business people and free market entrepreneurs who are happy to be well-compensated, but do not feel the need to be insanely well-compensated, nor to make a bunch of fickle short term shareholders rich.

 

You can like money, capitalism and America and still hate the short-sighted greed of our unregulated Wall Street "jobs providers."

A key to trying to bring back 'Made in USA' is to get back to old school quality. People will happily pay a little more for something if it will last. But in many things Made in USA and quality have not gone hand in hand for a long time. Companies want repeat business now, instead of building such a better product that it doesn't need to be replaced in short order.

[bennychico11]

They are business people and free market entrepreneurs who are happy to be well-compensated, but do not feel the need to be insanely well-compensated, nor to make a bunch of fickle short term shareholders rich.

 

You can like money, capitalism and America and still hate the short-sighted greed of our unregulated Wall Street "jobs providers."

 

on a related topic....

I was reading an article about Bank of America's new $5 fee for debit card holders. The CEO of the company was quoted as saying he has a right to make a profit. I think most of America understands that a company has a right to make a profit. We all agree companies should have the right to thrive in this great country.

But then he went on to say, "I have an inherent duty as a CEO of a publicly owned company to get a return for my shareholders."

 

That just got to me. It isn't about the consumer/customer anymore.

[strigori]

They are business people and free market entrepreneurs who are happy to be well-compensated, but do not feel the need to be insanely well-compensated, nor to make a bunch of fickle short term shareholders rich.

 

You can like money, capitalism and America and still hate the short-sighted greed of our unregulated Wall Street "jobs providers."

 

on a related topic....

I was reading an article about Bank of America's new $5 fee for debit card holders. The CEO of the company was quoted as saying he has a right to make a profit. I think most of America understands that a company has a right to make a profit. We all agree companies should have the right to thrive in this great country.

But then he went on to say, "I have an inherent duty as a CEO of a publicly owned company to get a return for my shareholders."

 

That just got to me. It isn't about the consumer/customer anymore.

And right there we have one of the biggest problems in the world. Anymore I am really thinking the only solution to a long term fix for the problems of the world economy is the dissolving of stocks and shareholders. It has lead to nothing good, just unrelenting greed. We would all be better off with no more conglomerates, and smaller businesses being the driving force of the economy, instead of the mega corps that more or less own the political system as well. And the Bible had at least one thing right. Greed is the root of all evil.

[redblooded]

147 companies control >40% of the world economy. So we are basically living in a global corporate plutocracy, since they can lobby whatever governments they want for whatever they want. http://www.newscient...-the-world.html

 

The other large problem is our entire economy and way of life is based on this:

[knapplc]

[carlfense]

Fox News is now frantically reporting that ACORN is behind all of the OWS protests. I don't recall them doing investigative exposes about the Koch brothers astroturf Tea Party projects. Interesting stuff.

[HeyBurke]

 

Keep 'em coming, knap.

[knapplc]

I don't recall them doing investigative exposes about the Koch brothers astroturf Tea Party projects.

 

That is because it didn't happen. Duh.

[carlfense]

I don't recall them doing investigative exposes about the Koch brothers astroturf Tea Party projects.

 

That is because it didn't happen. Duh.

Haha. +1

[GM_Tood]