Military given go-ahead to detain US terrorist suspects without trial

[gobiggergoredder]

You know Sub, I agree with on the two party system. I have never understood why our country can't be like others with multiple party systems. Have Democrats and Republicans, but also have Tea Party, Progressive, Libertarian, Christian Conservative, etc. and make them all give and take to get things passed. I would think that have smaller more focused parties would be much harder for Corporate American to buy off as well.

 

I think we have a one party system.

[Sub-Husker]

You know Sub, I agree with on the two party system. I have never understood why our country can't be like others with multiple party systems. Have Democrats and Republicans, but also have Tea Party, Progressive, Libertarian, Christian Conservative, etc. and make them all give and take to get things passed. I would think that have smaller more focused parties would be much harder for Corporate American to buy off as well.

 

Current laws make it harder for third parties to get ballot access.

 

The media generally avoids giving third parties air time, including third party leaning Dems (Dennis Kucinisch) and Reps (Ron Paul, Gary Johnson).

 

I think we have a one party system.

 

Ideologically they both sound very different, but they have the same corporate donor base that is served well whichever party is in power.

[JJ Husker]

This forum is hilarious. We've got far left wackos arguing with gone over the edge left wackos. I find it a little unbelievable that the center of things seems to be so far left in here but it is entertaining. People that voted for Obama are unhappy with him because he didn't veer far enough left? (as if anyone would think that possible). I happen to lean hard conservative right and I'm not happy with anyone currently in elected office. They all suck and our system is broke. But you would have to waterboard me to get me to say that there could be any worse of a choice for President than Obama and I would just as soon die as utter that to save my life. Personally I am much happier with nothing getting done if the alternative is doing things the way of Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and that ilk. You can't tax and redistribute your way to prosperity. At some point people need to figure out if they don't do it, it won't get done. Problem is the government has been replacing personal responsibility for far too long and for far too many people in this country. The government is not part of the solution, it IS the problem. Wallstreet and bankers only have the power they do because the people freely give it to them and congress, both sides of the aisle, sell them preferential treatment. Instead of camping out in a park maybe these people should quit voting for the person that promises them or their preferred group the most free crap, withdraw from the banking system, get out of the stock market, and quit patronizing businesses they do not agree with. There are free market solutions. More socialism is only counterproductive. Carry on.

[Comish]

This forum is hilarious. We've got far left wackos arguing with gone over the edge left wackos. I find it a little unbelievable that the center of things seems to be so far left in here but it is entertaining. People that voted for Obama are unhappy with him because he didn't veer far enough left? (as if anyone would think that possible). I happen to lean hard conservative right and I'm not happy with anyone currently in elected office. They all suck and our system is broke. But you would have to waterboard me to get me to say that there could be any worse of a choice for President than Obama and I would just as soon die as utter that to save my life. Personally I am much happier with nothing getting done if the alternative is doing things the way of Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and that ilk. You can't tax and redistribute your way to prosperity. At some point people need to figure out if they don't do it, it won't get done. Problem is the government has been replacing personal responsibility for far too long and for far too many people in this country. The government is not part of the solution, it IS the problem. Wallstreet and bankers only have the power they do because the people freely give it to them and congress, both sides of the aisle, sell them preferential treatment. Instead of camping out in a park maybe these people should quit voting for the person that promises them or their preferred group the most free crap, withdraw from the banking system, get out of the stock market, and quit patronizing businesses they do not agree with. There are free market solutions. More socialism is only counterproductive. Carry on.

 

Well articulated and accurate..................

[Sub-Husker]

This forum is hilarious. We've got far left wackos arguing with gone over the edge left wackos. I find it a little unbelievable that the center of things seems to be so far left in here but it is entertaining. People that voted for Obama are unhappy with him because he didn't veer far enough left? (as if anyone would think that possible). I happen to lean hard conservative right and I'm not happy with anyone currently in elected office. They all suck and our system is broke. But you would have to waterboard me to get me to say that there could be any worse of a choice for President than Obama and I would just as soon die as utter that to save my life. Personally I am much happier with nothing getting done if the alternative is doing things the way of Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and that ilk. You can't tax and redistribute your way to prosperity. At some point people need to figure out if they don't do it, it won't get done. Problem is the government has been replacing personal responsibility for far too long and for far too many people in this country. The government is not part of the solution, it IS the problem. Wallstreet and bankers only have the power they do because the people freely give it to them and congress, both sides of the aisle, sell them preferential treatment. Instead of camping out in a park maybe these people should quit voting for the person that promises them or their preferred group the most free crap, withdraw from the banking system, get out of the stock market, and quit patronizing businesses they do not agree with. There are free market solutions. More socialism is only counterproductive. Carry on.

 

What is your solution... more of the same?

[JJ Husker]

 

What is your solution... more of the same?

I don't claim to have all the solutions but I do have some things that I believe would get us moving in the right direction and a whole bunch of things I would avoid doing at all costs. Not to be intentionally inflammatory but most of the things I would definitely not do would more commonly be known as Obama initiatives or the democratic party platform. Things to not do are just as important as things to do. Before healing can begin, the harm must stop. Thus my statement that currently doing nothing is better than doing the things Obama wants. My ideas;

 

1- I would not, as the leader of this country, promote class and racial warfare. If we are going to make any progress at solving very real problems, it will take all of us and demonizing or isolating certain groups such as the rich or the poor, the tea party, various religions, gays, etc. will only postpone reaching any kind of a compromise or solution. Both parties are guilty of this but I believe the dems have taken it to a whole new level in the past 10+/- years.

 

2- I would not begin to think that taxing the rich could possibly solve our woes. I am for everyone paying their fair share. Get rid of the tax breaks, loopholes, and deductions that allow people like Warren Buffet to pay a lower percentage than his secretary. Also, get rid of the programs that encourage and make it so easy for up to 50% of our citizenry to depend on the government teat for their sustenance all while not contributing to the kitty. I think we get to fair by implementing a flat income tax and a national sales tax. I haven't done the math so am not sure what those rates need to be but I do believe it would generate more tax collection from the rich, less from the middle class, and would move many people from system users to system contributors. We could exclude the first 20-30K of income to ease the load on everyone but especially for the poor. Also think that corporations need to have a flat tax with no safe shelters. I kind of liked Cain's 9-9-9 idea just not sure if 9 is the correct number.

 

3- Cut spending severely. Taxes are a drop in the bucket compared to the money the feds suck up and waste. We need to determine how much we can actually afford to support the truly needy, phase that in up to the new poverty level, and get a whole bunch of people off of aid. I think we figure out if it is 10%, 20%, or 30% of the population that we can provide aid to and cap social spending to cover that many people and then adjust the line every year. It can't be a bottomless pit no matter how much people claim they "deserve" it. There is an amount we can afford and that has to be the determining factor, not Harry Hardluck's and Sally Sobstory's.

 

4- We need to reform (phase out and eliminate) entitlement programs. Social Security, any and all government healthcare, medicare, lucrative federal retirement programs, cadillac congressional plans, etc. It is unconscienable how we have allowed congress to create an elite playing field for themselves. That is not party specific. They're both screwing us. The government has proven over and over that they are not efficient at managing any of these things. People could save for their retirement without the government being involved. the caveat is that we have to be willing to make people live with their choices when retirement comes around and they haven't saved. See the 10-20-30 percent that we can afford to support.

 

5- Cut military spending and foreign aid. We need to be strong enough and wise enough to protect our own borders and leave it at that. We need to quit being the world police. The world doesn't appreciate it, we can't afford it, and it is not fair to our brave troops to be put in no win situations. If we absolutely can't avoid going "over there" then I say we have a burn the earth policy and get em back home immediately. Screwing around with light arms is a waste. Kill em all or don't go. Period.

 

6- We need to promote being more self sufficient. Drastically reduce imports and drastically increase tariffs on imports. We have unemployment. How much sense does it make to buy crap from China while we pay UE benefits to our own people? We don't manufacture hardly anything in this country anymore for a couple simple reasons. A-Our citizens are soft. Too many would rather draw benefits than actually work for a living. B-Self imposed regulations and rules place us at a disadvantage to other countries who use virtual slave labor and dangerous and environmentally unsound practices. Solution-make it ourselves and tell the world to F off. Sorry but those Japanese electronics, German cars, and ultra cheap Chinese crap have to go. We need a resurgence in the trades and blue collar labor. We buy $6 dollar coffes daily but lament our lot in life. It just can't be as easy as most people act like it should be. We can't sub out the dirty work and thrive.

 

7- Healthcare is probably the toughest subject. It is the only one that I think could use some communistic type price controls. I hate saying that but I don't know how to reign in runaway medical costs and assure reasonable care for all. Somebody has to step in say $100 for an aspirin is not ok. $2000 for an MRI is not ok. I think it will get better if we get all these other things under control but am not overly confident that people will not abuse the system. Government run healthcare is not what I am saying but maybe some heavyhanded regulation. The downside is that innovation and research would be impacted. But the current system is broke and Obamacare only made it worse. A few parts of it were good for people without healthcare or with prior conditions but they missed the biggest pieces; runaway costs and increasing premiums.

 

There, I'm done saving the world. You're welcome.

 

edit- actually I got tired of trying. I know there are many other pieces and things I did not address. But WTF this is a Husker football forum. I doubt too many world problems are getting solved here.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

I'll give a little saying that hopefully holds some merit with the opinions of Barack Obama:

 

You think you have all the answers, and those answers come easy because you're not sitting behind that chair. Once you're behind that chair, you come face to face with just how hard it is to be the President of the United States.

 

We can all say, well I would do this or I would do that...but none of us know exactly how hard it is to get legislation passed when there is virtually no agreement between both parties in how to get it done. BO is the figurehead...the people in Congress, those are the idiots you should be mad at. The President is just taking the criticism.

[Malth]

This forum is hilarious. We've got far left wackos arguing with gone over the edge left wackos. I find it a little unbelievable that the center of things seems to be so far left in here but it is entertaining. People that voted for Obama are unhappy with him because he didn't veer far enough left? (as if anyone would think that possible). I happen to lean hard conservative right and I'm not happy with anyone currently in elected office. They all suck and our system is broke. But you would have to waterboard me to get me to say that there could be any worse of a choice for President than Obama and I would just as soon die as utter that to save my life. Personally I am much happier with nothing getting done if the alternative is doing things the way of Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and that ilk. You can't tax and redistribute your way to prosperity. At some point people need to figure out if they don't do it, it won't get done. Problem is the government has been replacing personal responsibility for far too long and for far too many people in this country. The government is not part of the solution, it IS the problem. Wallstreet and bankers only have the power they do because the people freely give it to them and congress, both sides of the aisle, sell them preferential treatment. Instead of camping out in a park maybe these people should quit voting for the person that promises them or their preferred group the most free crap, withdraw from the banking system, get out of the stock market, and quit patronizing businesses they do not agree with. There are free market solutions. More socialism is only counterproductive. Carry on.

 

 

Are you being serious? Where are the left wing wackos, exactly? And what opinions and policies do you consider to be far left?

 

Class warfare? Like the what rich have been doing over the last 30 years?

 

I know I'm going to sound like a dick here, but you don't seem to fully understand how the economy works. The proposals that the Democrats are putting out are based on actual and mainstream theories. Read up on Keynesian economics, it's all there. If we invested in rebuilding our infrastructure, it would put people to work doing something useful, and a paycheck in their pocket. This money gets spent, which helps out other businesses

Deficit spending during recessions has historically been pretty effective, because spurs economic growth when the private sector can not. It stimulates it. Drastically cutting spending in a recession achieves the opposite, since all it's doing is taking money out of the economy. Federal Deficits – Net Imports = Net Private Savings. Deficit spending counts towards GDP growth, so spending cuts depress it and perpetuates the issue. Austerity begets austerity. Why would you want to deliberately slow growth when more growth is what we actually need?

 

You also don't seem to understand what they mean when they're talking about "redistributing" wealth. They're not stealing rich people's money and then immediately giving it away. Read up on the French Revolution. It occurred because a few people had it all while the minority continued to suffer. it to poor people. Wealth redistribution refers to not letting such a gap between the rich and not rich become too great, because it negatively effects the economy, and it's basically putting a few non-elected people in full charge. Read up on plutocracy and oligarchy.

 

And what the hell? Socialism? I would like to know what you consider to be socialism.

 

I haven't done the math so am not sure what those rates need to be but I do believe it would generate more tax collection from the rich, less from the middle class, and would move many people from system users to system contributors. We could exclude the first 20-30K of income to ease the load on everyone but especially for the poor. Also think that corporations need to have a flat tax with no safe shelters. I kind of liked Cain's 9-9-9 idea just not sure if 9 is the correct number.

Flat tax policies are regressive.

 

Drastically reduce imports and drastically increase tariffs on imports.

 

No. Free trade is beneficial. Different countries are able to do and make certain things cheaper and more efficiently, which helps keep prices low. Read up on comparative advantage. You should be able to see why free trade is a good thing.

 

Healthcare is probably the toughest subject. It is the only one that I think could use some communistic type price controls. I hate saying that but I don't know how to reign in runaway medical costs and assure reasonable care for all. Somebody has to step in say $100 for an aspirin is not ok. $2000 for an MRI is not ok. I think it will get better if we get all these other things under control but am not overly confident that people will not abuse the system. Government run healthcare is not what I am saying but maybe some heavyhanded regulation. The downside is that innovation and research would be impacted. But the current system is broke and Obamacare only made it worse. A few parts of it were good for people without healthcare or with prior conditions but they missed the biggest pieces; runaway costs and increasing premiums.

 

 

 

A single payer system is all but inevitable. You end up with a far larger pool of people, which helps diffuse the high costs of care that certain groups need, like the elderly. It also gives the government clout it needs to negotiate for lower medication costs and whatnot. Also, no one is advocating government run healthcare. Hospitals are privately owned. This is strictly about insurance coverage.

 

Obamacare is doing what it's supposed to. Insurance companies may have jacked up prices when some of the legislation passed, but there are further provisions coming into effect in the next few years to lower prices. It's not meant to be immediately implemented As of like a week ago, insurance companies are required to spend no less than 80% of their revenues on actual coverage.

 

I'd also say 1.6 million people is a little more than "some".

 

4- We need to reform (phase out and eliminate) entitlement programs. Social Security, any and all government healthcare, medicare, lucrative federal retirement programs, cadillac congressional plans, etc. It is unconscienable how we have allowed congress to create an elite playing field for themselves. That is not party specific. They're both screwing us. The government has proven over and over that they are not efficient at managing any of these things. People could save for their retirement without the government being involved. the caveat is that we have to be willing to make people live with their choices when retirement comes around and they haven't saved. See the 10-20-30 percent that we can afford to support.

 

What? Why do you want to eliminate EARNED entitlement programs? Do you seriously want to make old people rely solely on private investments? Maybe you noticed, but the economy has gone to sh#t. A lot of people have lost significant amounts of money. SS on the other hand, is guaranteed. I'd like to live in a country where the elderly can live out their final years with dignity. They've paid their dues, so I think it's the least we could do. Assuming that all seniors who need aid are lazy leeches is just no. sh#t happens.

 

 

 

3- Cut spending severely. Taxes are a drop in the bucket compared to the money the feds suck up and waste. We need to determine how much we can actually afford to support the truly needy, phase that in up to the new poverty level, and get a whole bunch of people off of aid. I think we figure out if it is 10%, 20%, or 30% of the population that we can provide aid to and cap social spending to cover that many people and then adjust the line every year. It can't be a bottomless pit no matter how much people claim they "deserve" it. There is an amount we can afford and that has to be the determining factor, not Harry Hardluck's and Sally Sobstory's.

 

But it is a bottomless pit. We can afford pretty much whatever we want. Seriously. And it doesn't have to be "paid for", because it's meaningless in a system where money is simply being created, and that taxes don't pay for anything, that money is just removed from circulation.

 

 

 

I'm sure I'm missing a few things, but this has already taken long enough to write as is.

[Malth]

We can all say, well I would do this or I would do that...but none of us know exactly how hard it is to get legislation passed when there is virtually no agreement between both parties in how to get it done. BO is the figurehead...the people in Congress, those are the idiots you should be mad at. The President is just taking the criticism.

 

Specifically the Republicans. Have you seen the House GOP's latest stunt?

[johnnyrodgers20]

• And not making 48% of the people pay anything is counterproductive. It has been proven when you have a stake in something you appreciate it more. Everyone should pay something, even a dolllar a pay just something.
  

 

• If you mean by Obamacare is helping to bankrupt this country then yes it's working. There are private ways to change the health care system without this socialist mess.
  

 

 

3. There are countries who have privatized SS and are doing better than the US. When would you ever give your money to an institution that keeps it until you retire and then give you .75 on the dollar, that's just nuts. You make people go into very safe mutual funds or savings plans and they will have more money when they reitre then they would in the current system. And the govt. wouldn't be trying to foot the bill.

 

 

• You are crazy, because once we have accrued a certain amount of debt we wont' be able to pay even the interest on the debt. By that time the dollar won't be the reserve currency and we won't be able to print our way out of that mess. That day by many analysts will be in the late thirties if spending rates continue and interest raes stay the same. If the interest rates go up by even two percent it could be much sooner. This isn't a game of monopoly, you have to have real money to pay your debts. We can print some but there are consequences for that also.
  

 

Read up on Keynesian economics, it's all there

 

 

 

The only thing that I agree with is rebuilding the infrastructure. I always find it funny that those that hated Reagan's trickle down economics from the private sector love the trickle down economics from the public sector. If trickle down doesn't work it doesn't work, plain and simple!! You can't have it both ways. The private sector is the best way out of the recession, limit regulations and start to invest in the energy that is in the USA.

[johnnyrodgers20]

We can all say, well I would do this or I would do that...but none of us know exactly how hard it is to get legislation passed when there is virtually no agreement between both parties in how to get it done. BO is the figurehead...the people in Congress, those are the idiots you should be mad at. The President is just taking the criticism.

 

Specifically the Republicans. Have you seen the House GOP's latest stunt?

 

 

And what STUNT would that be?

[johnnyrodgers20]

I'll give a little saying that hopefully holds some merit with the opinions of Barack Obama:

 

You think you have all the answers, and those answers come easy because you're not sitting behind that chair. Once you're behind that chair, you come face to face with just how hard it is to be the President of the United States.

 

We can all say, well I would do this or I would do that...but none of us know exactly how hard it is to get legislation passed when there is virtually no agreement between both parties in how to get it done. BO is the figurehead...the people in Congress, those are the idiots you should be mad at. The President is just taking the criticism.

 

 

I am sure you could say that about GWB then.

[johnnyrodgers20]

This forum is hilarious. We've got far left wackos arguing with gone over the edge left wackos. I find it a little unbelievable that the center of things seems to be so far left in here but it is entertaining. People that voted for Obama are unhappy with him because he didn't veer far enough left? (as if anyone would think that possible). I happen to lean hard conservative right and I'm not happy with anyone currently in elected office. They all suck and our system is broke. But you would have to waterboard me to get me to say that there could be any worse of a choice for President than Obama and I would just as soon die as utter that to save my life. Personally I am much happier with nothing getting done if the alternative is doing things the way of Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and that ilk. You can't tax and redistribute your way to prosperity. At some point people need to figure out if they don't do it, it won't get done. Problem is the government has been replacing personal responsibility for far too long and for far too many people in this country. The government is not part of the solution, it IS the problem. Wallstreet and bankers only have the power they do because the people freely give it to them and congress, both sides of the aisle, sell them preferential treatment. Instead of camping out in a park maybe these people should quit voting for the person that promises them or their preferred group the most free crap, withdraw from the banking system, get out of the stock market, and quit patronizing businesses they do not agree with. There are free market solutions. More socialism is only counterproductive. Carry on.

 

Very good post

[carlfense]

But you would have to waterboard me to get me to say that there could be any worse of a choice for President than Obama and I would just as soon die as utter that to save my life.

You sound rational and sane.

 

Rest easy knowing that America disagrees with you.

[JJ Husker]

I'll give a little saying that hopefully holds some merit with the opinions of Barack Obama:

 

You think you have all the answers, and those answers come easy because you're not sitting behind that chair. Once you're behind that chair, you come face to face with just how hard it is to be the President of the United States.

 

We can all say, well I would do this or I would do that...but none of us know exactly how hard it is to get legislation passed when there is virtually no agreement between both parties in how to get it done. BO is the figurehead...the people in Congress, those are the idiots you should be mad at. The President is just taking the criticism.

 

 

I am sure you could say that about GWB then.

Could but more than likely wouldn't......