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The Ron Brown Religion & Persecution Thread


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Love the man. But I'm losing all respect for him.

 

 

 

Nebraska coach defends anti-gay stance

 

Nebraska assistant coach Ron Brown says he'll keep speaking out against homosexuality even if it costs him his job.

 

Brown said in an interview with The Associated Press that ''to be fired for my faith would be a greater honor than to be fired because we didn't win enough games.''

 

Coach Bo Pelini and athletic director Tom Osborne say Brown is a good coach and he is within his rights to express his personal views.

 

Brown earned national acclaim for leading a prayer at midfield before the Cornhuskers' game at scandal-torn Penn State six months ago. He has been under fire recently for testifying against an anti-discrimination ordinance in Omaha, Neb., that extends protects gay and transgender people.

 

 

 

It's not OK to use Nebraska as a bully-pulpit to harass people. It's not OK to focus on ONE THING your religion kinda outlaws while ignoring the myriad other things it outlaws that are all around you - some of which YOU DO, Coach Brown.

 

It is not OK to tear down the goodwill you engendered by leading the prayer at Penn State by waging an anti-gay crusade. A totally unnecessary crusade, by the way. One that has no point, no benefit, no merit.

 

It's time to disassociate yourself from Nebraska athletics, Coach. Before you do any more damage than you've already done.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the kind of bad press we do not need:

 

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Timothy Burke@bubbaprog

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There is nothing more pathetic than hiding behind your "faith" as an excuse to be a bigot http://bit.ly/IcSzjB

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Maybe surprisingly to those that know me on this board, I agree as well. Well, I don't know if I agree that he needs to leave, but he needs to cool it, at least. He's majoring in a minor here and from a Christian perspective putting entirely too much focus and energy towards something that has no Biblical precedent for this kind of attention.

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Mostly I feel he's free to say whatever he wants, but at some point he is using the platform given to him as a coach at the university of Nebraska. That's wrong.

 

I'm sure he'd love to be a martyr but my gosh, 'being fired for [his] faith' would not be close to what happens here if the university does let him go. Self-proclaimed martyrdom...

 

I think it's unlikely he'll be fired, though. He's earned his keep around here and I think they'll do everything possible to keep him around.

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I honestly think this is a bigger issue than Brown vs. homosexuality. Brown is a symptom of a larger problem, namely that it is not at all uncommon for official church stances to be stridently anti-homosexual (or as I like to think of it, anti-human rights). Almost the entirety of anti-gay sentiment is rooted in religion, Christianity specifically in our country. I know a lot of Christians break away from dogma, and that's great, but the church had better get itself straight (no pun intended) sooner rather than later if it wants to have any hope at stopping the mass migration of young people away from church participation and religion in general. You're either on the side of human rights and civil liberties or you're not.

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Mostly I feel he's free to say whatever he wants, but at some point he is using the platform given to him as a coach at the university of Nebraska. That's wrong.

 

Exactly. I'm not saying he can't believe what he wants or say what he wants. But he's doing this under the aegis of UNL, and that's 100% not OK. He needs to decide what's more important to him - his anti-gay crusade or being a coach at Nebraska. And if it's the former, then he needs to be man enough to resign and not force the school to fire him.

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"Before you speak to me about your religion, first show it to me in how you treat other people; before you tell me how much you love your God, show me in how much you love all His children; before you preach to me of your passion for your faith, teach me about it through your compassion for your neighbors. In the end, I'm not as interested in what you have to tell or sell as in how you choose to live and give."

 

-Mayor Cory Booker

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His detractors say he crossed it last month when he attended an Omaha City Council hearing and testified against an anti-discrimination ordinance that extended protections to gay and transgender people. In Brown's three-minute appearance, he challenged ordinance sponsor Ben Gray and other members to remember that the Bible does not condone homosexuality.

 

He said gays and lesbians do not deserve the same protections as groups that historically have been discriminated against, such as blacks and women.

 

Brown said his words should not be interpreted as an attack on homosexuals. ''I have simply said that based on the Bible, homosexuality, the lifestyle of homosexuality, is a sin,'' he said. ''That has created a flame within itself. But I've decided I'm not going to be afraid of people calling me a bigot or a homophobic or narrow-minded out of a simple, gentle, compassionate expression of the truth of God's word. I'm not going to be bought off by that.''

 

I agree with Brown about this bill. We don't need a law affording gays and transgenders the same protections as blacks and women. I don't have anything against gays, or even transgenders for that matter (although I don't know any transgenders). I just don't think sexual preference/gender identity falls into the same category as race and actual gender.

 

As for homosexuality being a sin, I don't agree with Brown about this. But I do believe Ron Brown is telling the truth when he said this wasn't an attack against gays. I suspect his belief that homosexuality is a sin is just one of many beliefs he holds. And I doubt if Ron Brown is going back down on this or change his beliefs over what people think or say--or even if it costs him his job. Which is unfortunate since Ron Brown is a great coach and a great man. Count me as one of those who doesn't want to see him move on.

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I agree with Brown about this bill. We don't need a law affording gays and transgenders the same protections as blacks and women. I don't have anything against gays, or even transgenders for that matter (although I don't know any transgenders). I just don't think sexual preference/gender identity falls into the same category as race and actual gender.

 

Talk to someone who has not gotten a promotion they're qualified for because of their sexual preference and tell me if you feel the same.

 

We shouldn't need ANY of these laws. We should not need a law to tell us that if you have a man and a woman, equally qualified, doing the same work, they should be paid the same. We have NO NEED for this law - except for the fact that people won't pay both genders equally.

 

We shouldn't have any need for a law that says you can't fail to hire someone because of the color of their skin. Skin color is completely irrelevant to whether a person can do a job, yet to this very day people are denied employment because they are the wrong color - and the fun part is, it's happening to Whites a LOT more these days because we have a sizable population of non-Whites in management now.

 

I don't like these laws. I think they are completely unnecessary. But time and time again humanity proves me wrong.

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I agree with Brown about this bill. We don't need a law affording gays and transgenders the same protections as blacks and women. I don't have anything against gays, or even transgenders for that matter (although I don't know any transgenders). I just don't think sexual preference/gender identity falls into the same category as race and actual gender.

 

Talk to someone who has not gotten a promotion they're qualified for because of their sexual preference and tell me if you feel the same.

Not exactly sexual preference (or gender identity), but I was passed over in my first job because I'm a white male. Twice. The word came down from on high that we didn't have enough female first line managers. So the bosses picked out two girls (one of whom had 10 months experience including three months as a summer intern), and promoted both of them over the heads of five more qualified guys. I was one of those guys.

 

But I'm not about to lobby for a law protecting the pale males. Instead, a few months later I left the company for a better job where I could get ahead based on my work. I think that's a better solution.

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I agree with Brown about this bill. We don't need a law affording gays and transgenders the same protections as blacks and women. I don't have anything against gays, or even transgenders for that matter (although I don't know any transgenders). I just don't think sexual preference/gender identity falls into the same category as race and actual gender.

 

Talk to someone who has not gotten a promotion they're qualified for because of their sexual preference and tell me if you feel the same.

Not exactly sexual preference (or gender identity), but I was passed over in my first job because I'm a white male. Twice. The word came down from on high that we didn't have enough female first line managers. So the bosses picked out two girls (one of whom had 10 months experience including three months as a summer intern), and promoted both of them over the heads of five more qualified guys. I was one of those guys.

 

But I'm not about to lobby for a law protecting the pale males. Instead, a few months later I left the company for a better job where I could get ahead based on my work. I think that's a better solution.

 

How did you find out that 'word came down from on high?' Not saying I don't believe you, but that's not something the unhired typically know.

 

And while I think it's great that you were able to leave your job and get a better one somewhere else, that option is not universally available. Hence these laws.

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I agree with Brown about this bill. We don't need a law affording gays and transgenders the same protections as blacks and women. I don't have anything against gays, or even transgenders for that matter (although I don't know any transgenders). I just don't think sexual preference/gender identity falls into the same category as race and actual gender.

 

Talk to someone who has not gotten a promotion they're qualified for because of their sexual preference and tell me if you feel the same.

Not exactly sexual preference (or gender identity), but I was passed over in my first job because I'm a white male. Twice. The word came down from on high that we didn't have enough female first line managers. So the bosses picked out two girls (one of whom had 10 months experience including three months as a summer intern), and promoted both of them over the heads of five more qualified guys. I was one of those guys.

 

But I'm not about to lobby for a law protecting the pale males. Instead, a few months later I left the company for a better job where I could get ahead based on my work. I think that's a better solution.

 

How did you find out that 'word came down from on high?' Not saying I don't believe you, but that's not something the unhired typically know.

 

And while I think it's great that you were able to leave your job and get a better one somewhere else, that option is not universally available. Hence these laws.

How did I know? Well, the promotions came during a company-wide push to promote more females. And there was a HUGE uproar over these two girls getting promoted due to their lack of qualifications. At the time it was a pretty big scandal in our little corner of the world. Neither of these girls was even remotely deserving of the promotion as compared to the others in our group--either skill-wise or in terms of seniority. (It wouldn't have been such a big deal if they had three or four more years experience, and maybe led a couple of projects along the way.) Let's talk in football terms. Imagine if Andy Janovich was named the starting RB in our first game this fall (he's a walk-on from Gretna). Andy is a fine football player. Who knows, maybe he'll start some day. But right now he is not remotely qualified to be starting over Burkhead, Ameer Abdullah, Aaron Green, Braylon Heard, and a couple others. If this happened there would be a HUGE uproar.

 

I guess it's possible that management saw some nugget of managerial expertise in these two girls that was lacking in their more experienced, and apparently more highly qualified male counterparts. Then again, perhaps Andy Janovich *should* be our starting tailback come September.

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Like knapp said, there shouldn't be a law that says we HAVE to do this. When hiring, if you have an African-American man going up against a Caucasian woman, what should be done is you take a number of core variables from that person's career life and plug them into a multiple regression model (obviously one that works [which more than likely doesn't include gender or ethnicity]) and obtain a criterion score (based on whatever aspect you're looking for). Whomever you hire, you hire.

 

The problem comes with the people who don't get hired looking way too much into things and deriving a reason that really is not there. "You didn't hire me because I'm a woman." "No, I didn't hire you because you had a lower score than the other candidate." I think what could go a long way in quelling this problem is to tell those who didn't get hired in excruciating detail why they didn't get hired. But that takes time (and more than likely money) to do, and it seems like a waste to the businesses (which is understandable).

 

But I see I have wandered slightly off topic. So let me get back to the point of this thread. I share the sentiment of the majority of the folks here when I think that Ron Brown shouldn't be fired, but he should stop using his platform as a coach at Nebraska to promote his religious views. There are more sins in the Bible than just being gay, Mr. Brown, and I am sure you have committed some of them. If God can forgive us of our sins (even though we constantly repeat them), why can't he forgive homosexuals? Is that not the same thing? Homosexuality is not the be-all-end-all sin, it does not have more value than any other sin.

 

Does a "sinner" have any right to castigate another "sinner"?

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NUance - I find it interesting that you keep referring to adult coworkers as "girls" rather than as women. One might be inclined to take this as a glimpse into how you view women as coworkers in general, or not.

 

Regarding the original topic, I couldn't agree more. I've taken heat in other threads over the years about Brown because I'm terribly uncomfortable with the casualness with which he injects his kooky religious nuttery into everything he does. As I have for years, I truly hope his days at NU are numbered. Great coach, but he's never been so great as to be worth the extra baggage, imo.

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I may not fully agree with Ron Brown's position on homosexuality or his choice to apparently speak so frequently on the subject but, I have nothing but respect for him and for his right to express his opinion on the issue. My only hope is that he remains extremely clear about these being his opinions and that he is not representing the University in any way, shape, or form. I feel this specific deal is simply exacerbated by current political correctness and because it is hot button issue. Where I do agree with him is that I don't feel the GLBT community needs any additional protections or allowances. But, I feel that way about all groups of people no matter how some may choose to catagorize them. We have civil rights and labor laws that are designed to protect all of us regardless if we are white, black, brown, male, female, gay, straight, Christian, atheist, etc. If a person feels homosexuality is a sin, no law in the world is going to change that. It doesn't even matter if he is right or wrong or if you think he is misinterpreting the Bible. He has the right to express his opinion and others have that same right to agree or disagree with him. However, he does not have the right to use his position as a University employee or coach to deliver a controversial message. If he feels it is that important of an issue and he understands the fine line he is treading, I have nothing but respect for him sticking to his convictions. The world would be a much better place if all people had that level of integrity.

 

A quote from the article that I liked-

Walls, now pastor at Shades Mountain Independent Church in Birmingham, Ala., said the Brown he knows is not hateful.

''When you speak the truth to people who don't see it that way, they often come away thinking you condemned them or judged them rather than addressing their sin from God's perspective, which is an act of love,'' Walls said. Brown helps ''illuminate the perversion and confusion of our culture.''

Brown said he isn't ''picking on'' homosexuals. He said a gay agenda has cropped up in American culture and that he is merely responding to it.

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