Libya Thread Part Deux

[Comish]

Have not seen much action on the older Sept. Libya thread (of course, it’s possible I missed it).

 

Just wondering if those who so vociferously supported Obama’s actions by parsing and dissecting the multiple story lines until it seemed to them to make sense are feeling any differently?

 

It’s pretty gut wrenching to listen to the father of the deceased soldier Woods…. who defied orders to try and rescue comrades and was subsequently killed for his efforts, to explain his feelings. For the record, he said that Hillary was focused on telling him they would get the perpetrator of the VIDEO ?? and he was stunned that her efforts were on that guy and not the killers in Libya. He also wondered why, in light of evidence that we had been asked repeatedly for help during the fighting, the Obama administration declined. My take is that he is much more of a man than me or most anyone I know when he basically believes Obama allowed his son to die, and yet states unequivocally that he forgives him and prays for him. Too bad he is somewhat unique in society today with that gracious view of life.

 

Of course, the mainstream media has decreed it is not a story, so in their view, it’s ok to cover the impending storm and let this story die.

 

A number of people are openly positing this “cover-up” to be significantly larger than Watergate (because we have actual lives lost) and I’m wondering if anyone has changed their minds on this issue………..or on the election because of it?

 

(Not trying to open old arguments, just wondering if the new information and evidence have swayed any opinions)?

[knapplc]

What exactly needed "covering up?"

[Ziggy]

It seems like people have been asking for more time for information to be released, but when it does get released and looks bad for the admin, they try to minimize it. We know now that a UAV overflew most of the attack, 3 times requests for support were denied, and many support assets were either diverted or delayed that may have saved our ambassadors life. After all he was found alive and died after being taken to a local hospital.

 

As a side note: I am surprised this thread didn't get moved strategically to kill it. I tried to start one not much different than this only to be buried in the old thread. It seems some mods are using their power to selectively pick and choose what threads live and which get "moved".

[Army Husker]

Another rumor to add to the mill: General Carter Hamm, the AFRICOM Commander at the time, was relieved immediately following the attack. Rumor has it that Gen Ham defied SecDef Panetta's orders, sending rescue aid to Banghazi when told not to. This is floating all around the military community and some blogospheres (all conservative), but nothing mainstream media.

[JJ Husker]

Another interesting tidbit of information has recently come out. This statement released by a CIA spokesman; "No one at any level in the CIA told anybody not to help those in need; claims to the contrary are simply inaccurate." apparently had to come with the approval of CIA Director Gen. David Patraeus. So, to reiterate, the CIA provided some intelligence suggesting the Benghazi incident may have been spontaneous which helps the administration support their 2 week position that it was spontaneous. But, when push comes to shove, it would appear Patraeus is not willing to take the fall for no one providing aid during the attack. It seems the onus for lack of action that may have helped prevent American casualties is being squarely placed on the administration. I don't fully understand how the chain of command works here but if it was not Obama himself, it had to be someone who reports directly to him such as SecDef Panetta. It also would seem this statement hints that somebody did in fact withhold help, otherwise why make the statement?

 

It makes me sick to my stomach that this administration knew what was going on there, apparently had opportunity to intervene and possibly save soldier Woods and/or the other American's who were killed, and yet stuck to this spontaneous uprising story for as long as they did. It may well just be incompetence but it seems everyday that passes more information comes out that makes this look like they were covering up for a decision or lack of action that could have prevented deaths. If it is just incompetence, that is not acceptable and does not reflect well at all on this administration. If it was a purposeful cover-up, people need to be held responsible. I am speaking strictly about the official press releases by the administration. It should go without saying that the actions or decisions that lead to American deaths, need to be found out and those responsible held accountable. Incompetence is no longer an excuse when people die.

 

I'm guessing the hurricane (and of course the mainstream media) may be their best friend leading up to this election.

[Comish]

What exactly needed "covering up?"

I doubt you will give much credence to this because it’s on Pirro and also includes Coulter, but I’d suggest you skip their parts if you like and listen to Pat Caddel (democratic pollster and lifelong democrat). He starts at about 1:15 and then has the last minute or so of the 4 ½ total as well. This is not a conservative agent here who laments he is physically sick about the cover-up. Going so far as to call the lack of coverage by the mainstream media akin to them becoming a threat to America.

 

[knapplc]

Pat Caddell hasn't been a Democrat since 1988. If he called himself Republican I believe you guys would call him a "RINO."

 

He's worked for Fox News for the last several years. I pointed this out in another thread. So when you say something like, "This is not a conservative agent here..." Ummm, yeah, he is.

[Ziggy]

There we go again, attacking the commenter without giving any substance. Oh wait that was your first tactic, now let me guess, we change our plan so frequently that you don't know which argument to attack.

 

As more and more information come out, it is more and more evident that the whole situation was handled poorly. I don't know if the administration was afraid of another Mogadishu black hawk down situation, or the information didn't go up the chain fast enough. But we know that assets were in place to aide the rescue effort and were keep in place while 4 Americans were killed.

[Comish]

Pat Caddell hasn't been a Democrat since 1988. If he called himself Republican I believe you guys would call him a "RINO."

 

He's worked for Fox News for the last several years. I pointed this out in another thread. So when you say something like, "This is not a conservative agent here..." Ummm, yeah, he is.

Just because he is not the rabid leftist that most of the democratic party has morphed into, doesn't mean he's not a democrat (in the old, traditional, level-headed way). That doesn't make him a conservative.

Fox does have a few dems on the show (of course you wouldn't know that because you've stated you've never watch it); Joe Trippi, Juan Williams, Maura Liasson; Charles Lane, etc.

But beyond your predictable and inevitable discounting of anything foxish, the question remains..................did you watch the video?

[knapplc]

What does RINO mean?

[Ziggy]

Pat Caddell hasn't been a Democrat since 1988. If he called himself Republican I believe you guys would call him a "RINO."

 

He's worked for Fox News for the last several years. I pointed this out in another thread. So when you say something like, "This is not a conservative agent here..." Ummm, yeah, he is.

 

Actually he helped a democrat try and run for president in 1992. We all know what a Rino is, but because someone who doesn't like the way the national party transitions away from the Democrat planks, doesn't mean he is no longer a Democrat or a DINO. You have no proof that he no longer considers himself a democrat, except your opinion. And lastly anyone who can try and help Jimmy Carter become president twice, and be a major contributor to his time as president, is pretty well in the democrat belief structure.

 

Lastly, you are a mimic of the president and his administration. Change the story and vilify. When information comes out that is anti Obama, you change the story to flip flopping and call Romney an evil fat cat business man who makes hats in china, doesn't pay enough taxes, and would let all the people die in natural disasters.

[knapplc]

Jimmy Carter last ran for president 33 years ago. 1992 was 20 years ago. Having worked for Fox News for the last several years as a pet "Democrat" kills any credibility Caddell has. He can register Democrat all he wants, but he's a DINO. No amount of wrangling changes that.

 

You think I change the story? You think I vilify? Do you even listen to Romney and his etch-a-sketch, 47% campaign? Take off the blinders, man.

 

 

 

EDIT - still waiting on any kind of link or credible source for any of the allegations in the first few posts in this thread. Lots of "I heard" without facts. It's shameful the way the Republicans have latched on to this tragedy for political gain.

[Ziggy]

Just wanted to get this out before responding to the rest. Why would you wait for something you never asked for? That is plain silly. Last I checked you can look up information as well to dispute the claims, or just debate it in general. This is a forum for people to discuss ideas, rumors, and the news. This is also an election year and everything is politicized, both parties are using the attack for their own political reasons.

[knapplc]

You shouldn't have to ask for sources. Sheesh.

[Ziggy]

Jimmy Carter last ran for president 33 years ago. 1992 was 20 years ago. Having worked for Fox News for the last several years as a pet "Democrat" kills any credibility Caddell has. He can register Democrat all he wants, but he's a DINO. No amount of wrangling changes that.

 

You think I change the story? You think I vilify? Do you even listen to Romney and his etch-a-sketch, 47% campaign? Take off the blinders, man.

 

 

 

EDIT - still waiting on any kind of link or credible source for any of the allegations in the first few posts in this thread. Lots of "I heard" without facts. It's shameful the way the Republicans have latched on to this tragedy for political gain.

 

See you just did it again. You prove my point. thanks. Change the conversation to Romney and his 47% and etch-a-sketch, surprised you didn't put in a "Romnesia" in there.

 

Show me proof that he is a DINO, and working for a conservative company does not make someone conservative or no longer a democrat. And you have no problem using information that's not relevant that is 10, 15 or 20 years old if its to paint Romney in a bad light.