Pelini vs. Beck

[Danimal]

Martinez shouldn't be in there unless he has the wheels that got him the job. TA at least should've gotten in there. That said, Beck's ridiculous impatience with the run game and insistance on the dink passing-game the D is all over was what cost us.

[husker rob]

Martinez shouldn't be in there unless he has the wheels that got him the job. TA at least should've gotten in there. That said, Beck's ridiculous impatience with the run game and insistance on the dink passing-game the D is all over was what cost us.

how many run calls were changed at the line of scrimmage by Martinez?

[Shockley03]

knapplc man. I read your post -- and I experience the whole game with Minnesota all over again. I don't get it...? We can all be Taylor Martinez apologists all day long (he just got outplayed, beat bad today by QB Philip Nelson). I just sit back in my chair and take in one more disturbing Nebraska loss each time it occurs under Martinez' controls, and so many get on here and post about their defense of this person or that person -- or an offensive coordinator's or defensive coordinator's game plan.

 

I agree with Mark May of ESPN. "The definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result." And that's where we're going with this.

[Count 'Bility]

Yep, and as Junior said in another thread, if this defense is playing poorly because of who's behind center, we have far bigger problems than Taylor Martinez.

That's the thing. I think we do right now. There's a total lack of chemistry. I wanted to give Taylor this chance. I really did, becuase he did deserve it. The chance that is. But he's not the answer anymore. For some reason, the team-even winning-has looked rather uninspired all around with Taylor in at qb. There was a spark. A confidence. A swagger with the other, regardless of the competition. I'm really trying to observe how this is not being seen right now.

 

And I don't understand how this is eluding so many people calling for Martinez' head as a solution to so many of this team's problems: If we can make this whole team play better by benching Martinez, the problem isn't Martinez, it's the whole team. Because that would mean these guys have let one player get into them so much that they cannot function properly with him on the field.

 

So you take that guy off the field, but that doesn't fix the problem that these guys are prone to one player/thing affect them so greatly. That predilection still exists, and what's going to happen when another player takes over that "trouble causer" role? We bench him, too? What if it's Ameer and his fumbleitis? We bench Ameer in favor of Newby?

 

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

The cause of the problem isn't Martinez. He would be a symptom, or a trigger.

 

So why not fix the brains of the people using Martinez as an excuse rather than using Martinez as a scapegoat?

 

 

 

And bear in mind, I'm of the opinion Martinez shouldn't take another snap as our QB based on his injury. I'm simply saying that Martinez isn't the problem in that scenario - the team is.

I think we're agreeing, just on different premise maybe? And that again is the issue. But the bottome line is, and this cant be argued with. We've seen an emotional spark, confidence and swagger for 3 games prior to today. Then today happens and all that progress is gone. Compitition? Whatever. We still did to bad teams what youre supposed to do. Illinois and Purdue never had a chance. And minnesota shouldntve either. But the thing is, this team today looked like the second half team against UCLA. A total continuation as if the last 3 games never happened. Why is that? The ONLY difference is who the quarterback was. There is a total lack of confidence in a hurt WR/Safety/Athlete/Kick Returner trying to be a qb. The qb position is the issue here.

[suigeneris]

knapplc man. I read your post -- and I experience the whole game with Minnesota all over again. I don't get it...? We can all be Taylor Martinez apologists all day long (he just got outplayed, beat bad today by QB Philip Nelson). I just sit back in my chair and take in one more disturbing Nebraska loss each time it occurs under Martinez' controls, and so many get on here and post about their defense of this person or that person -- or an offensive coordinator's or defensive coordinator's game plan.

 

I agree with Mark May of ESPN. "The definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result." And that's where we're going with this.

 

Albert Einstein said that (lest anyone think that Mark May has ever said anything intelligent).

[zoogs]

I have no idea, rob.

 

When Tommy's in there, the limitations seem to help this offense. He's not there to throw, and he's not going to be picking apart defenses on his own at this point in his career, anyway. So we lean on the run game. When we throw, we're stretching the field and reminding the defense that one of these times we're going to connect on that strike if they don't watch it with their safeties. And then we use the run again.

 

With Taylor, I have no idea why we do a lot of short and intermediate passing. It doesn't stretch the field. We're sort of average at it, but it doesn't open up the run game for us. We are definitely having pass pro issues right now. It throws us behind schedule on down and distance and it doesn't chew up clock. I don't get it.

[lo country]

Yep, and as Junior said in another thread, if this defense is playing poorly because of who's behind center, we have far bigger problems than Taylor Martinez.

That's the thing. I think we do right now. There's a total lack of chemistry. I wanted to give Taylor this chance. I really did, becuase he did deserve it. The chance that is. But he's not the answer anymore. For some reason, the team-even winning-has looked rather uninspired all around with Taylor in at qb. There was a spark. A confidence. A swagger with the other, regardless of the competition. I'm really trying to observe how this is not being seen right now.

 

And I don't understand how this is eluding so many people calling for Martinez' head as a solution to so many of this team's problems: If we can make this whole team play better by benching Martinez, the problem isn't Martinez, it's the whole team. Because that would mean these guys have let one player get into them so much that they cannot function properly with him on the field.

 

So you take that guy off the field, but that doesn't fix the problem that these guys are prone to one player/thing affect them so greatly. That predilection still exists, and what's going to happen when another player takes over that "trouble causer" role? We bench him, too? What if it's Ameer and his fumbleitis? We bench Ameer in favor of Newby?

 

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

The cause of the problem isn't Martinez. He would be a symptom, or a trigger.

 

So why not fix the brains of the people using Martinez as an excuse rather than using Martinez as a scapegoat?

 

 

 

And bear in mind, I'm of the opinion Martinez shouldn't take another snap as our QB based on his injury. I'm simply saying that Martinez isn't the problem in that scenario - the team is.

I think we're agreeing, just on different premise maybe? And that again is the issue. But the bottome line is, and this cant be argued with. We've seen an emotional spark, confidence and swagger for 3 games prior to today. Then today happens and all that progress is gone. Compitition? Whatever. We still did to bad teams what youre supposed to do. Illinois and Purdue never had a chance. And minnesota shouldntve either. But the thing is, this team today looked like the second half team against UCLA. A total continuation as if the last 3 games never happened. Why is that? The ONLY difference is who the quarterback was. There is a total lack of confidence in a hurt WR/Safety/Athlete/Kick Returner trying to be a qb. The qb position is the issue here.

I gotta agree. No way that Minny is that much better than Illinois or Purdue. We looked completely different tonight. Even with TA's performance against Purdue, the D almost got a shut out. WTH happened to those guys? Man, the only commonality is the QB.

 

I also think is some of the players thought Bo "played favorites" or had a "dog house". playing a busted up Martinez proved it. No way that the team didn't know how "hurt" he was. Then Bo puts him in over a healthy TA or RKIII and it has to cause a divide, not to mention the players possibly thinking no matter what we do, it will be like UCLA all over. He can't ball and we are "stuck" with him.....

[Ric Flair]

The coaching staff seems to have completely lost the team. That's what I'm seeing...in what they say, don't say and in their body language.

No. I dont think the staff has. I think Taylor has. Watch the first three games. Then watch the next three games. Then re watch today, and try to argue with me.

 

I don't think we necessarily disagree Mr. A. Martinez is out there because the coaching staff keeps sending him out there. And I don't think the team believes in him...or in the coaching staff that contines to force him on them.

so it's mutiny?

 

I think the thinking is that it's players who have lost faith in the staff because they would prefer either Armstrong or Kellogg to Martinez...and because Beck wants Armstrong or Kellogg to start and Pelini insists on Martinez getting the nod despite not being 100%. So there's significant infighting and general dysfunction in play as well.

[Glendower]

knapplc man. I read your post -- and I experience the whole game with Minnesota all over again. I don't get it...? We can all be Taylor Martinez apologists all day long (he just got outplayed, beat bad today by QB Philip Nelson). I just sit back in my chair and take in one more disturbing Nebraska loss each time it occurs under Martinez' controls, and so many get on here and post about their defense of this person or that person -- or an offensive coordinator's or defensive coordinator's game plan.

 

I agree with Mark May of ESPN. "The definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result." And that's where we're going with this.

 

Albert Einstein said that (lest anyone think that Mark May has ever said anything intelligent).

So then repeating this attribution and expecting it to be true makes a person insane?

[husker07]

There is simply no way "the team plays harder" if Armstrong plays this game and Martinez doesn't. We spotted that defense a ten-point lead and they couldn't hold it against Minnesota.

 

When are people going to learn that the Quarterback has zero affect on the defense? And what will the excuse be next year when Martinez is gone and we give up another game like this, or another 500 yards of offense to a weak team? Hangover from the Martinez Era?

 

The offense not being able to keep the D off the field to catch their breath, make adjustments, etc. absolutely can affect the defense. So can turnovers. So your statement is absolutely false my friend.

Not to mention the "right guy" at the most important position in football makes a huge difference. A "gamer" or a leader of men changes can change your culture completely. Look no further Wilson for the Seahawks. They were an average team, but he brought a belief and a winning attitude to that organization. Hard to quantify, but I firmly believe it.

[suigeneris]

knapplc man. I read your post -- and I experience the whole game with Minnesota all over again. I don't get it...? We can all be Taylor Martinez apologists all day long (he just got outplayed, beat bad today by QB Philip Nelson). I just sit back in my chair and take in one more disturbing Nebraska loss each time it occurs under Martinez' controls, and so many get on here and post about their defense of this person or that person -- or an offensive coordinator's or defensive coordinator's game plan.

 

I agree with Mark May of ESPN. "The definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result." And that's where we're going with this.

 

Albert Einstein said that (lest anyone think that Mark May has ever said anything intelligent).

So then repeating this attribution and expecting it to be true makes a person insane?

 

I've never repeated the attribution before and the result I was expecting was to discredit the notion that Mark May coined the maxim (which could be achieved by attributing it to any other person), so I don't think your response is on point.

 

But I Googled the maxim and it turns out that it most likely originated in the 1980s from Narcotics and/or Alcoholics Anonymous. It's been attributed to Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, a Chinese proverb, and other sources over the years. So I actually learned something from Huskerboard today. A green +1 to you.

[krc1995]

Yep, and as Junior said in another thread, if this defense is playing poorly because of who's behind center, we have far bigger problems than Taylor Martinez.

That's the thing. I think we do right now. There's a total lack of chemistry. I wanted to give Taylor this chance. I really did, becuase he did deserve it. The chance that is. But he's not the answer anymore. For some reason, the team-even winning-has looked rather uninspired all around with Taylor in at qb. There was a spark. A confidence. A swagger with the other, regardless of the competition. I'm really trying to observe how this is not being seen right now.

 

And I don't understand how this is eluding so many people calling for Martinez' head as a solution to so many of this team's problems: If we can make this whole team play better by benching Martinez, the problem isn't Martinez, it's the whole team. Because that would mean these guys have let one player get into them so much that they cannot function properly with him on the field.

 

So you take that guy off the field, but that doesn't fix the problem that these guys are prone to one player/thing affect them so greatly. That predilection still exists, and what's going to happen when another player takes over that "trouble causer" role? We bench him, too? What if it's Ameer and his fumbleitis? We bench Ameer in favor of Newby?

 

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

The cause of the problem isn't Martinez. He would be a symptom, or a trigger.

 

So why not fix the brains of the people using Martinez as an excuse rather than using Martinez as a scapegoat?

 

 

 

And bear in mind, I'm of the opinion Martinez shouldn't take another snap as our QB based on his injury. I'm simply saying that Martinez isn't the problem in that scenario - the team is.

I think we're agreeing, just on different premise maybe? And that again is the issue. But the bottome line is, and this cant be argued with. We've seen an emotional spark, confidence and swagger for 3 games prior to today. Then today happens and all that progress is gone. Compitition? Whatever. We still did to bad teams what youre supposed to do. Illinois and Purdue never had a chance. And minnesota shouldntve either. But the thing is, this team today looked like the second half team against UCLA. A total continuation as if the last 3 games never happened. Why is that? The ONLY difference is who the quarterback was. There is a total lack of confidence in a hurt WR/Safety/Athlete/Kick Returner trying to be a qb. The qb position is the issue here.

I gotta agree. No way that Minny is that much better than Illinois or Purdue. We looked completely different tonight. Even with TA's performance against Purdue, the D almost got a shut out. WTH happened to those guys? Man, the only commonality is the QB.

 

I also think is some of the players thought Bo "played favorites" or had a "dog house". playing a busted up Martinez proved it. No way that the team didn't know how "hurt" he was. Then Bo puts him in over a healthy TA or RKIII and it has to cause a divide, not to mention the players possibly thinking no matter what we do, it will be like UCLA all over. He can't ball and we are "stuck" with him.....

so the team is so pissed they allow 8 yards on most first downs? I just don't understand how Taylor affects the D like that?

[Hercules]

I agree with Mark May of ESPN.

 

You lost me.

[Hayseed]

Yep, and as Junior said in another thread, if this defense is playing poorly because of who's behind center, we have far bigger problems than Taylor Martinez.

That's the thing. I think we do right now. There's a total lack of chemistry. I wanted to give Taylor this chance. I really did, becuase he did deserve it. The chance that is. But he's not the answer anymore. For some reason, the team-even winning-has looked rather uninspired all around with Taylor in at qb. There was a spark. A confidence. A swagger with the other, regardless of the competition. I'm really trying to observe how this is not being seen right now.

 

And I don't understand how this is eluding so many people calling for Martinez' head as a solution to so many of this team's problems: If we can make this whole team play better by benching Martinez, the problem isn't Martinez, it's the whole team. Because that would mean these guys have let one player get into them so much that they cannot function properly with him on the field.

 

So you take that guy off the field, but that doesn't fix the problem that these guys are prone to one player/thing affect them so greatly. That predilection still exists, and what's going to happen when another player takes over that "trouble causer" role? We bench him, too? What if it's Ameer and his fumbleitis? We bench Ameer in favor of Newby?

 

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

The cause of the problem isn't Martinez. He would be a symptom, or a trigger.

 

So why not fix the brains of the people using Martinez as an excuse rather than using Martinez as a scapegoat?

 

 

 

And bear in mind, I'm of the opinion Martinez shouldn't take another snap as our QB based on his injury. I'm simply saying that Martinez isn't the problem in that scenario - the team is.

 

Good points. What kind of pussified team would lay down because one player is different? I think the main problems on offense are the playcalling differences and the timing instincts of the different qb's. One might be easier to block for because the linemen get what he's trying to do....one is more in sync with receivers...etc.

[JTrain]

Beck's playcalling was breathtakingly bad. The first three drives of the second half... wow.