Jonathan Pollard

[Excel]

On 21 November 1985 Jonathan Pollard, an intelligence analyst with the Navy Ocean Surveillance Information Center, was arrested on espionage charges by the FBI as he left the Israeli embassy in Washington DC.

 

Pollard plead guilty to one count of conspiracy to deliver national defense information to a foreign government and was sentenced to life in prison. Because of his plea and the sensitive national security issues involved the full extent of his activities have not been revealed.

 

At the very least he is believed to have supplied American information on Arab and Middle Eastern countries to the Israelis as he has admitted as much. At the worst he is believed to have attempted to sell American information to both Pakistan and South Africa.

 

Pollard is a Jewish-American born in Galveston. In 1995 the Israeli Government officially granted him citizenship and in 2002 former (and now current) Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu visited Pollard in a Federal Prison.

 

His imprisonment remains a sore spot in American-Israeli relations with many Israelis clamoring for his release and many Americans opposing it.

 

The Israeli case for clemency

 

Public support in Israel for Pollard's release seems high and the website www.jonathanpollard.org says that: "Jonathan Pollard was a civilian American Naval intelligence analyst. In the mid 1980's (circa 1983-1984), Pollard discovered that information vital to Israel's security was being deliberately withheld by certain elements within the U.S. national security establishment. Israel was legally entitled to this vital security information."

 

 

 

The American Opposition

 

Opposition to Pollard's release is still strong in the Defense and Intelligence arenas. Since his imprisonment seven Secretaries of Defense and four Directors of Naval Intelligence have spoken out publicly opposing his release.

 

There remains a strong contingent of Jewish Americans who also oppose his release. Rear Admiral Sumner Shapiro, himself Jewish, said on Pollard: "We work so hard to establish ourselves and to get where we are, and to have somebody screw it up . . . and then to have Jewish organizations line up behind this guy and try to make him out a hero of the Jewish people, it bothers the hell out of me," LINK

 

Martin Peretz, a Jewish American and former owner of the New Republic said: "Jonathan Pollard is not a Jewish martyr. He is a convicted espionage agent who spied on his country for both Israel and Pakistan – a spy, moreover, who got paid for his work. His professional career, then, reeks of infamy and is suffused with depravity" and that Pollard's supporters are "professional victims, mostly brutal themselves, who originate in the ultra-nationalist and religious right. They are insatiable. And they want America to be Israel's patsy." LINK

 

All of this has been simmering just below the diplomatic surface for decades only appearing at particularly tense times but it is on the scene once again with our Government and Israel reportedly close to a deal on clemency and Pollard's release, apparently in the near future.

 

What do you think should happen to Pollard?

[zoogs]

Israel is not legally entitled to arbitrarily defined pieces of American intelligence and he should be treated no differently than any other defector, IMO.

[StPaulHusker]

I don't think he deserves clemency. I don't think he deserves to be free. But I don't want him sucking on the tit of American taxpayers any longer. Enough time has passed that he has no new intelligence that he can steal or sell.

 

I say deport him to Israel and revoke his passport. Let him be Israel's problem

 

I am saying this with no clue as to if he could be still considered a threat to US security or interests.

[rawhide]

If he makes it to Pakistanislaw he is a viable candidate for droneage.

[zoogs]

I don't think he deserves clemency. I don't think he deserves to be free. But I don't want him sucking on the tit of American taxpayers any longer. Enough time has passed that he has no new intelligence that he can steal or sell.

 

I say deport him to Israel and revoke his passport. Let him be Israel's problem

 

I am saying this with no clue as to if he could be still considered a threat to US security or interests.

 

Isn't that the same as giving him freedom?

 

One guy is a pretty small drain on taxpayers.

[StPaulHusker]

I don't think he deserves clemency. I don't think he deserves to be free. But I don't want him sucking on the tit of American taxpayers any longer. Enough time has passed that he has no new intelligence that he can steal or sell.

 

I say deport him to Israel and revoke his passport. Let him be Israel's problem

 

I am saying this with no clue as to if he could be still considered a threat to US security or interests.

 

Isn't that the same as giving him freedom?

 

One guy is a pretty small drain on taxpayers.

Probably the same but then again I have no idea what it's like to live in Israel either.

[Excel]

I don't think he deserves clemency. I don't think he deserves to be free. But I don't want him sucking on the tit of American taxpayers any longer. Enough time has passed that he has no new intelligence that he can steal or sell.

 

I say deport him to Israel and revoke his passport. Let him be Israel's problem

 

I am saying this with no clue as to if he could be still considered a threat to US security or interests.

 

Isn't that the same as giving him freedom?

 

One guy is a pretty small drain on taxpayers.

Probably the same but then again I have no idea what it's like to live in Israel either.

 

It would probably be pretty nice for him. He has a support base there. The news makes Israel sound like it must be terrible to live with suicide bombings and rocket attacks and stuff but I figure its actually pretty nice. He'd get a chushy job and some house by the beach and in the words of Martin Perez, we would officially be "Israel's patsy".

 

I think the best thing for American-Israeli relations would have been to just let this issue die and have him remain in prison.

 

He is not an Israeli hero, he sold secrets for money and not just to Israel but to other countries as well. He also isn't a Jewish hero, if anything he damaged the Jewish-American community quite a bit with his actions. He's a criminal and a profiteer who was motivated by money, he deserves to serve his sentence. I'm also trying to imagine if he had been truly an Israeli patriot motivated by love of country and if that would make it any less worse and I don't think it would. He needs to stay in prison. This isn't a diplomatic or Jewish issue, this is a criminal one. He is a criminal.

[BigRedBuster]

It boggles my mind how Israel could have power over us to release a spy like this. We have supported them and saved their asses from total demolition for over half a century. Actually, it pisses me off that they felt they needed to spy on us at all then they demand his release?

 

Go try to stay safe without us for once and see how long you last.

[carlfense]

It boggles my mind how Israel could have power over us to release a spy like this. We have supported them and saved their asses from total demolition for over half a century. Actually, it pisses me off that they felt they needed to spy on us at all then they demand his release?

 

Go try to stay safe without us for once and see how long you last.

That's why the Israel first crowd that pops up every four years or so are particularly annoying . . .

[Excel]

It boggles my mind how Israel could have power over us to release a spy like this. We have supported them and saved their asses from total demolition for over half a century. Actually, it pisses me off that they felt they needed to spy on us at all then they demand his release?

 

Go try to stay safe without us for once and see how long you last.

That's why the Israel first crowd that pops up every four years or so are particularly annoying . . .

 

Four years? It seems like they're always present.

 

You don't have to be a conspiracy nutjob to realize the amount of sway the pro-Israel lobby has on our Government, they're one of the most powerful around. The idea that such a group exists disturbs me - a collection of people in and around our government that advocate so strongly and so successfully for the interests of another nation and pursue policies that often hurt our country just to benefit another. For what? The kooky religious beliefs of some end-time Christian fanatics? As atonement for an atrocity that we not only did not commit but that we put an end to?

 

It's crazy. I know that sounds kind of anti-Semitic, or that's the kind of talk that you hear a lot of bigots push, but I am not one. Much (most?) of that lobby is made up of wacko fundamentalist Christians.

 

I also have no issue with the state of Israel existing, I fully support it, every people ought to have a right to a homeland, security and self governance - and by that same principle I support the Palestinians as well. I'm even fine with some of the military support we've given them like Operation Nickel Grass during the Yom Kippur war - if we can prevent their annihilation we ought to and if it requires guns and planes then fine but the support we give them now...with their settlements and treatment of people in Gaza and the Westbank...it's unacceptable in my eyes.

 

We've given them a blank check to commit all sorts of blunders and crimes that inevitably come back to blow up in our faces. At this point we should withdraw military support, no Arab nations are going to be invading them anytime soon and the "terrorists" they're fighting are ones they've created.

[BigRedBuster]

I support Israel to exist because they are there and it would be a disaster to allow them to be destroyed by their enemies.

 

We are also ones who supported the creation of Israel and helped make the decision to plop homeless refugees after WWII in the middle of a region that hated them. Wow...what a great idea. Put people who fled an area of the world that hates them into a place that quite possibly hated them even more. Brilliance at work.

 

But, what is done is done. My frustration has always been that we have basically given them freedom to do what ever they want with settlements...etc. We should be able to put pressure on them to be good neighbors.

 

I do find this quote funny from your post.

 

Much (most?) of that lobby is made up of wacko fundamentalist Christians.

 

I honestly don't know of hardly any politicians from either side that hasn't bowed down and kissed the feet of Israel. And, while the Christian lobby is fairly vocal about this, there are other groups that lobby in favor of Israel. This is probably the main one. Now, looking at the web site front page, I see pictures of some Democrats. Now, I can't imagine the Domocratic party taking money and being influenced that heavily by "wacko fundamentalist Christians".

 

http://www.aipac.org

[carlfense]

Four years? It seems like they're always present.

It ramps up before presidential elections as an attempted wedge issue to pry away a few jewish votes from their heavy DNC lean. See the appeasement accusations of 2012 for example.

[carlfense]

We've given them a blank check to commit all sorts of blunders and crimes that inevitably come back to blow up in our faces. At this point we should withdraw military support, no Arab nations are going to be invading them anytime soon and the "terrorists" they're fighting are ones they've created.

I have no evidence to support it but I wonder if the whole point isn't partially to give the Middle East an enemy to hate next door instead of directing all of their angst in our direction. That's probably just a conspiracy theory on my part.

[Excel]

We've given them a blank check to commit all sorts of blunders and crimes that inevitably come back to blow up in our faces. At this point we should withdraw military support, no Arab nations are going to be invading them anytime soon and the "terrorists" they're fighting are ones they've created.

I have no evidence to support it but I wonder if the whole point isn't partially to give the Middle East an enemy to hate next door instead of directing all of their angst in our direction. That's probably just a conspiracy theory on my part.

 

Maybe but I doubt it. How much hate and angst would they have toward us if we didn't support Israel? Would 9/11 have happened? I doubt it.

 

I think we see such strong anti-American sentiments in the Middle East because of:

 

1. Our unapologetic and unflinching military support for Israel

2. Our presence on the Arabian peninsula, the invasion of Iraq and so on.

 

The second point is just an extension of the fist. The oil crises of the 1970's drove the Carter doctrine which asserted that we would use our military to protect our national interests (oil) in the Middle East. The crisis was complex but part of it was the Arab oil embargo against us for supporting Israel and another part of it was the Iranian revolution (which can also be tied to our meddling). The Carter doctrine matured and snowballed through the years until we found ourselves in the Gulf and Iraq wars.

 

The Arabs, Muslims, people in the M.E...whomever don't hate us because of our "freedom", or because we eat bacon or because our women wear bikinis, drive and vote. They hate us for very real and very good reasons. The lion's share of that hate stems not from the fact that we support Israel but how we support Israel.

 

That's all just my opinion though.

[rawhide]

The US has been involved in the Middle East for a long time. I may be wrong but Qatar or Bahrain might be the only ME countries we haven't boinked around with. Then include countries in Asia and Africa; most of which that we've boinked were either Islamic or headin' that way. Oil or just to hit the Russians in the sack or what ever reason our government rationalized it's foreign policy is a great game to play.

 

And in Charlie Wilson's words: we screwed up the end game. (not an exact quote)