Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (Spoilers for Episode 7)

[Moiraine]

III was the only SW movie that made me cry and it was twice. Then add in the theatre scene and I would say it's a tie with IV. Also, there are far fewer cheesy scenes between Anakin and Padme to weigh down the movie.

 

People argue that the dialogue has always been bad but bad dialogue in scenes that are supposed to be romantic is a lot less bearable.

 

Han Solo and Leia's sarcastic, putdowny, pretending they don't like each other relationship was way better. Although Anakin was young so being overdramatic and pouty might not have been that unrealistic.

[RedDenver]

2 hours ago, Redux said:

George Lucas is a poor storyteller so the prequels sucked even with added excitement, but A New Hope isn't boring in a lot of parts because Lucas used to be a good storyteller?  So much catch 22.

 

It's fine if you don't want to like them, but let's not pretend it's solely based off of their shortcomings.  It's the same problem 7, 8 and ultimately 9 have.  A core fanbase with a preconceived idea of what they want knowing full well it's not rational to expect it and still s#!tting on the final product when said expectations aren't met.

Believe what you want. I'll leave you with this as it breaks down why Lucas sucked as compared to when he was creating the original trilogy:

 

[Redux]

I'll watch it when I gwt a chance.  But lastly, purely from a movie standpoint, Revenge is far superior to Return, end of story.

[Landlord]

1 hour ago, Redux said:

I'll watch it when I gwt a chance.  But lastly, purely from a movie standpoint, Revenge is far superior to Return, end of story.

 

 

Purely from a storytelling standpoint, no it isn't. The crux of the Return story is Vader's redemption, which is earned through the plot of the first 2.75 movies before it happens. The crux of the Revenge story is Anakin's turn to the dark side, which is completely unearned and forced.

 

The main subplot of Return is Luke fulfilling a legacy and resisting temptation, which is, again, an earned resolution through the story. The main subplot of Revenge is the fall of the Jedi Order and the Republic, which is, again, messy and shoved into reality.

[Redux]

25 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Purely from a storytelling standpoint, no it isn't.

 

Ewoks overthrow the Galactic Empire.  I mean apparantely Lucas quit being a great story teller AFTER writing that, but maybe teddy bears beating an actual armed military wasn't the best choice.

 

As to the rest.  Returns entire story feels very "fall into place" if you will, so many things have to go just right and do so far too easily at far too convenient times.  It just doesn't seem plausible that the Rebels should have had a snowballs chance in hell to AGAIN defeat the Empire, this time for good, with such a small taskforce etc.  Even then, I still love the movie because of nostalgia, but there is SO much wrong with it.

 

Revenge had the unfortunate task of making up for the snowball of s#!t that Clones was.  It had to fit in all the stuff they should have done in the prior film, and it gets crowded and rushed in parts I'll admit.  But Revenge also answered so many questions of how things fell into place and it did it via beautiful tragedy in many instances.  Not everyone has to like it, or even like it more than another of the films.  But it is a very solid stand alone film and one of my favorites in the saga.

 

And Boba Fett died via fart joke.  Unforgivable.

[RedDenver]

2 hours ago, Redux said:

But Revenge also answered so many questions of how things fell into place and it did it via beautiful tragedy in many instances.

What? Can you describe any of those instances?

[Landlord]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

What? Can you describe any of those instances?

 

 

I guess maybe we were supposed to care and have an emotional response for the kids (that we know nothing about) that Anakin murders off screen, and the scores of Jedi (that we know nothing about) that the clone troopers murder. 

 

I'm even sure that we're somehow supposed to care about Padme dying, and Anakin turning evil, but neither character was remotely interesting to be emotionally invested in. 

 

The only part of the movie I've ever thought had any emotional substance was Obi-Wan's, "You were the chosen one!" line. The rest of it is full of some fun set pieces, sound design, and action sequences from time to time, but is otherwise fairly lifeless.

[whateveritis1224]

 

Talking about Episode III, he goes deep into why the turn makes sense. Basically he chose the Sith side/Padme and Sideous informed him that to get enough power to save Padme he would need to wipe out the Jedi. Hence his attack on the Temple.

 

All the Prequels are not good movies. The overall story, though, was good, just told poorly. The dialogue in all movies is overall not good and the acting is spotty at best. On top of that they did Padme dirty in ROTS. All of the Rebellion starting scenes were cut for some reason (there was also a really great scene where Padme, Bail, and others meet with Palpatine in his office and Anakin's there).  

[Landlord]

27 minutes ago, whateveritis1224 said:

The overall story, though, was good, just told poorly.

 

A poorly told story isn't a good story, imo. That's the defining characteristic of what makes them any good or not. Michael Bay could/would completely sabotage a movie about any of the 25 most important moments in human history, but P.T. Anderson or the Coen Brothers could make the meager life of a grocery store clerk gripping and sensational.

[knapplc]

Unfortunately the best evidence that George Lucas is not - and never was - a good storyteller is not available on the internet right now. It's from a 2014 documentary about the making of the first film. I watched it with my wife a year or so ago, and it was fascinating. 

 

Apparently Lucas and Steven Spielberg were part of a group of directors who would show each other their work and critique each other. When Lucas showed them Star Wars, they hated it.  The scenes were not in the order we see today, there were tons of extra scenes that had to be deleted, the scenes had to be reordered... it was terrible.

 

If Lucas doesn't show that preview to his buddies and they don't fix it for him, that movie is another Flash Gordon. 

 

Much of the rest of the mythos surrounding Star Wars is from the spark it made to our imaginations.  It was not a great movie.  It was a great idea for a movie, and it caught our imagination in a big way, but some of that movie's success happened in spite of Lucas.

[Redux]

6 hours ago, RedDenver said:

What? Can you describe any of those instances?

 

Probably nothing you'll agree with, so no.

[Landlord]

5 hours ago, knapplc said:

Unfortunately the best evidence that George Lucas is not - and never was - a good storyteller is not available on the internet right now. It's from a 2014 documentary about the making of the first film. I watched it with my wife a year or so ago, and it was fascinating. 

 

Apparently Lucas and Steven Spielberg were part of a group of directors who would show each other their work and critique each other. When Lucas showed them Star Wars, they hated it.  The scenes were not in the order we see today, there were tons of extra scenes that had to be deleted, the scenes had to be reordered... it was terrible.

 

If Lucas doesn't show that preview to his buddies and they don't fix it for him, that movie is another Flash Gordon. 

 

Much of the rest of the mythos surrounding Star Wars is from the spark it made to our imaginations.  It was not a great movie.  It was a great idea for a movie, and it caught our imagination in a big way, but some of that movie's success happened in spite of Lucas.

 

 

Here's a related video about how the editing saved Star Wars:

 

 

[knapplc]

That is either what we watched or very similar to what we watched. Thanks, LL!

[Cdog923]

On 7/1/2018 at 9:31 AM, Moiraine said:

 

 

Ep. I is still terrible. Ep. III was always really good and has 3 of my favorite scenes in Star Wars. Maybe my 3 favorites.

 

(I always liked Ep. II even though it had some really cheesy moments 'cause Hayden Christensen was really cute).

 

Episode 1 has the best lightsaber fight in the series. 

[Cdog923]

This is probably the best place for this video, too. I rather like where this guy goes with the story: