The General Election

[AR Husker Fan]

 

Every day that goes by, Trump is gaining momentum and Hillary slips further down. The chances are well above 50% now that her legal issues are getting worse. The chances that the FBI and a grand jury are going to clear her of wrongdoing at this 'late' hour drop as each day passes. The investigation is NOT complicated but because of the scope and volume of her apparent violations (30,000 emails and an illegal or unauthorized private server and private parties operating the same, many individuals involved, etc., and individuals with immunity grants in return for testimony and evidenciary cooperations) all suggest the FBI is encircling her. She has not been interrogated YET because they want to get all the facts and statements and corroboration of the same BEFORE she is questioned. Her likely FALSE statements in response to their anticipated questions will catch her in serious criminal activity. Giving false statements to the FBI is criminal activity in addition to the negligent handling of government information, etc. She has apparently many thousands of violations of numerous federal statutes. There is just no "ignorance is my defense" excuse. Mere possession of government documents outside the office and government computers/files is CRIMINAL! She knows it and was trained on it as well as did training of others herself.

 

It seems inconceivable, no matter how 'slick' she thinks she may be, that she can avoid indictment.

What are you basing this on?

 

Good question, insofar as virtually every legal expert concludes that, given the evidence, there's been no crime. CNN's Pamela Brown, further, reported that she has been told by officials that the investigation is close to ending, and that there is no evidence to warrant an indictment. In other words, precisely the opposite is to be expected...

[BigRedBuster]

AR....You are correct, but I was mainly talking about what I bolded in his post.

[mrandyk]

I'm of the belief that a balloon with a face drawn on it would beat Trump if the balloon won the democratic nomination. Hillary is a terrible candidate but Trump is in a whole other league of incompetence. His platform is seemingly based entirely on xenophobia and bigotry, just not going to win the general election with that in 2016.

[Danny Bateman]

New look at the reported Trump gameplan in attacking Clinton from the New York Times:

 

Little Is Off Limits as Donald Trump Plans Attacks on Hillary Clinton’s Character

 

Inside Donald Trump’s Plans to Attack the Clintons, and Why They Might Fail

 

Trump can use these attack lines, I can't imagine any Republican nominee not using them. Unfortunately for him, I feel like he's playing with fire on a few of these, and rebuttals for her are almost built in.

 

Still, we had Hillary's gameplan leaked a month or so ago, and it's interesting to see what the other side is thinking. This is going to get ugly.

[mrandyk]

New look at the reported Trump gameplan in attacking Clinton from the New York Times:

 

Little Is Off Limits as Donald Trump Plans Attacks on Hillary Clinton’s Character

 

Inside Donald Trump’s Plans to Attack the Clintons, and Why They Might Fail

 

Trump can use these attack lines, I can't imagine any Republican nominee not using them. Unfortunately for him, I feel like he's playing with fire on a few of these, and rebuttals for her are almost built in.

 

Still, we had Hillary's gameplan leaked a month or so ago, and it's interesting to see what the other side is thinking. This is going to get ugly.

It gets worse?

[BigRedBuster]

 

New look at the reported Trump gameplan in attacking Clinton from the New York Times:

 

Little Is Off Limits as Donald Trump Plans Attacks on Hillary Clinton’s Character

 

Inside Donald Trump’s Plans to Attack the Clintons, and Why They Might Fail

 

Trump can use these attack lines, I can't imagine any Republican nominee not using them. Unfortunately for him, I feel like he's playing with fire on a few of these, and rebuttals for her are almost built in.

 

Still, we had Hillary's gameplan leaked a month or so ago, and it's interesting to see what the other side is thinking. This is going to get ugly.

It gets worse?

 

Bill and Hillary are the King and Queen of slime ball politics in elections. Now you throw in Trump and this is going to get really really ugly before it's said and done.

[White Flash]

It really doesn't matter much as the Nation is basically FUBAR already, proof positive evidence is Hillary barely winning over a socialist coot while the Donald apparently will win to oppose her. At this point, the fact that the electorate is about to choose between an evil witch who makes no attempt to conceal her diabolical ways that offers absolutely no real world business or economics or military or social skills having never been employed in an actual working job in her life and a self absorbed real estate mogul that has had more business failures than 99% of the business managers in the world with absolutely no political or social or military or economics backgrounds.

 

What, pray tell, do either 'the witch bitch' and the 'loud mouth' offer America at a time in its history when we need a great leader with superlative skills in social, political, economic and military matters on a global scale?

 

Yes, I understand that Americans are rightfully pissed. Socialist economic policies of the past twenty years have led to massive increases in poverty, unemployment, family disintegration, education failure, international chaos on a global scale, the distruction of the American dream of leaving the next generation better off than the prior one, etc. There is really nothing positive going on anywhere frankly. Stock market propped up with massive government 'investment', deficit spending on a biblical scale with unprecedented 'zero interest rate' environment that nearly every economist would have said prior to 2008 was nearly impossible and insane and a Federal Reserve and Congress afraid to even discuss realistic budget and fiscal policies for fear of tipping the entire world in global economic abyss.

 

Sadly, we are well beyond the point of no return and this general election is glaring proof that it doesn't matter which one wins, we are all losers.

i think we've been the losers for the past 3 decades.

[TGHusker]

 

By my posts, you know I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm also a conservative and will not vote for Hillary. So 'I ain't got a dog in this fight' other than to say I'm pro-America and want the best person possible for this country.

 

But I'm going to make a not so bold prediction (since I could flip a coin and get the same answer 50% of the time). I get a gut feeling that Trump is going to pull this off and will be our next president. As posted many times before, I don't think he has the temperament or experience to be our president.

 

I base this on the following:

1. Hillary's negatives are almost as about as bad as Trumps

2. The repubs have a universal dislike for Hillary (except for a few establishment types who say they will voter for her)

3. The dems don't necessarily have a universal dislike for Trump, but the large Sander voting block doesn't like Hillary either and may stay home

4. I think there will be more anti-dem Hillary's staying home than Anti-trump conservatives

5. Both the Sander Dems and the anti-establishment Repubs (Cruz and Trump supporters) want change. Hillary won't be seen as a change agent.

6. I don't think the liberal Sander voters will vote for Trump (as noted above, I think they stay home) but I think there will be more moderates moving towards him - those old Reagan blue dog dems - union workers, middle class, patriotic

7. Trump's garbage isn't sticking to him. People want change regardless.

8. Hillary's garbage is getting old - replay of the 1990s, her tenure as SOS, Foundation fund raising, and the FBI email probe could end up being the lid that seals that garbage can and seal her chances.

On what do you base numbers 3 and 4?

 

As to number 3, I can't think of a single Democrat that has expressed anything but contempt for Trump, and see in him someone that embodies the very antitheses of what that party believes. As to number 4, an equally likely - or perhaps more likely - scenario is that Sanders supporters, being denied their first choice, will swarm the polling stations to vote for someone, and that they will go for Hillary as at least the lesser of two evils - they will see in Trump someone that isn't an agent of change, but one that cannot form coalitions, articulate coherent plans, take the same position on an issue twice running, and is dismissive of women and minorities. Particularly if Sanders throws his support to Hillary after losing at the convention, I see Sanders' supporters flocking to Hillary.

 

AR - these are just gut cks - I'm not a Dem so not following it from the perspective of someone who has skin in their game. #3: My emphasis is more on the blue dog dems who may come over to Trump's side. I think the longer the race goes wt Clinton the more embittered Sanders voters are getting regarding the unfairness of the process (Hillary getting the super delegates ) and the more they distrust the system. I'm just think overall that I can see more Sander supporters staying home than Cruz supporters. I base that on conversations I've had wt Cruz supporters, what I've read and hear on the talk shows etc. While I think there was a "I'll never vote for Trump" attitude among many Cruz supporters, reality has set in and their distain for a 3rd Obama term under Hillary will force them to hold their nose and vote for Trump. I'm not sure if the vast # of young Sander supporters will rise to that same conclusion and hold their noses to vote for Hillary. Not saying they don't hate Trump but they are still focused on Hillary and her share of the 'establishment'.

 

 

And by the way, living in Oklahoma, the state will vote for Trump. I will either abstain to vote on the presidential ballot for the very 1st time since 1976 or vote for a 3rd party candidate. I don't care for either candidate and can't put my name behind either one. So my post about Trump winning is not an endorsement by any means - just some observations and thinking out loud. My emotions regarding this primary season are: HATERED OF THE PROCESS EMBARRASSMENT THAT THIS IS WHAT WE END UP WITH AND DEEP FRUSTRATION THAT OUR CHOICES ARE SO FLAWED

Edited May 17, 2016 by TGHusker

[Danny Bateman]

If history is any indicator, Obama had this same problem in greater numbers with Clinton supporters after winning the primary in 2008, and he still did very well unifying the party. He went on to win 70-76% of Clinton supporters-- that's roughly inline with what percentage of Sanders supporters say they'll support her now.

 

Now, obviously, 2008 had different candidates. Obama is more charismatic than Clinton. But I think time will heal this wound.

[BigRedBuster]

If history is any indicator, Obama had this same problem in greater numbers with Clinton supporters after winning the primary in 2008, and he still did very well unifying the party. He went on to win 70-76% of Clinton supporters-- that's roughly inline with what percentage of Sanders supporters say they'll support her now.

 

Now, obviously, 2008 had different candidates. Obama is more charismatic than Clinton. But I think time will heal this wound.

 

 

The difference is that Obama was not extremely distasteful to a major chunk of the Democratic party like Trump is. Sure, some would have rather had Hillary. But, Obama wasn't so bad in their minds that they absolutely wouldn't vote for him.

 

 

Or....are you only talking about how Hillary will be able to unify the Dems?

[Danny Bateman]

 

If history is any indicator, Obama had this same problem in greater numbers with Clinton supporters after winning the primary in 2008, and he still did very well unifying the party. He went on to win 70-76% of Clinton supporters-- that's roughly inline with what percentage of Sanders supporters say they'll support her now.

 

Now, obviously, 2008 had different candidates. Obama is more charismatic than Clinton. But I think time will heal this wound.

 

 

The difference is that Obama was not extremely distasteful to a major chunk of the Democratic party like Trump is. Sure, some would have rather had Hillary. But, Obama wasn't so bad in their minds that they absolutely wouldn't vote for him.

 

 

Or....are you only talking about how Hillary will be able to unify the Dems?

 

 

I was talking about Clinton unifying the Dems. I disagree with TGH that Trump will unify better than Clinton.

 

Frankly, you strengthened my argument. Bernie supporters will either stay home or suck it up and vote for Clinton. Some of them will happily vote for her. It's the vocal minority of Sanders supporters that make the situation seem really dire, IMO.

 

Here's another good article. The premise is that Trump isn't so much expanding the GOP electorate as he is bringing reliable Republican voters in the fall in who usually don't vote in the primary. This is resulting in the boom in voter numbers they've seen in the primary, and if this is the case, it doesn't translate to a ton of new votes in the fall.

 

I hope I explained that well enough.

 

Donald Trump is not Expanding the GOP

[BigRedBuster]

I would agree with you that the Dems will unify behind Hillary more than the Repubs behind Trump.

[HuskerShark]

I would agree with you that the Dems will unify behind Hillary more than the Repubs behind Trump.

 

The problem for the Democrats is that many of them will end up voting for Trump. Many Republicans who don't want to vote for Trump will probably go 3rd party with their votes.

[knapplc]

The problem for the Democrats is that many of them will end up voting for Trump. Many Republicans who don't want to vote for Trump will probably go 3rd party with their votes.

This is not supported by the data.

 

http://www.270towin.com/maps/clinton-trump-electoral-map

[BigRedBuster]

 

I would agree with you that the Dems will unify behind Hillary more than the Repubs behind Trump.

 

The problem for the Democrats is that many of them will end up voting for Trump. Many Republicans who don't want to vote for Trump will probably go 3rd party with their votes.

 

What basis do you have for making this statement?