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If you decrease legal availability of getting a gun or put in a million checks to keep people from getting guns that shouldn't have them, it will only drive the availability of getting guns on the secondary/black market. Which is worse? Guns are like drugs. If you want to use, you find a way to get what you need.

Flooding the nation with guns & bullets like we've been doing is significantly worse than a nation with fewer guns. The fewer guns in the system, the harder it is for criminals to get them. This is simple, basic logic.

 

My point is that I don't believe there will be fewer guns. The loss of being able to get a gun legally will be made up through illegal ways. Also, more illegally bought guns gives money to really "great and nice" people. I would bet it would lead to things being even worse.

 

 

This has not proved true in any other first-world nation. It is an unfounded fear and not a valid excuse to not move forward on this problem.

 

They can move forward if they want, but I'm not putting up anything as fact. I'm telling you what I believe will happen and would be 100% shocked if it didn't. Criminals are criminals and will continue to be criminals and will look for any how any way to make money. Unless you lock down our country like Russia or North Korea does to their people, we will not be able to control the black market on gun sales, just like we can't do with the drug problem.

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Perhaps the problem is the word "control". No one seems to have a very good definition of it. Maybe we as a society need to look at it as oversight. I don't have a problem with people owning every gun they can get their hands on. I think some of them a silly and pointless. But I think that way about people collecting lots of things.

 

But the fact that a guy was interviewed 2X by the FBI was able to obtain an AR15 in an expedited manner without anyone knowing about it says a lot about where we are today.

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It's a double sided blade. Gun control will stop gun violence from growing but it wont end violence. You can still jump on youtube right now and find plenty of ways to make a projectile weapon or bomb.

First, think the idea that without guns ISIS is going to come in here and slaughter us is sheer fantasy.

 

Second, where is the other edge on that blade? Gun control will stop gun violence from growing -- GREAT! Can't stop everything -- of course! Let's still stop something, right?

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It's a double sided blade. Gun control will stop gun violence from growing but it wont end violence. You can still jump on youtube right now and find plenty of ways to make a projectile weapon or bomb.

First, think the idea that without guns ISIS is going to come in here and slaughter us is sheer fantasy.

Second, where is the other edge on that blade? Gun control will stop gun violence from growing -- GREAT! Can't stop everything -- of course! Let's still stop something, right?

The other edge is the "fantasy" as you so eloquently put it.

 

You honestly think ISIS isn't capable or willing to mass attack us? You honestly think the general public would be better off unarmed in that scenario? Now who is fantasizing...

 

It's unlikely ISIS ever amasses a force so grand that civilians have to take to arms to defend themselves. But it's certainly not impossible.

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The issue that Potus fails to mention or to identify here is that Muslims are anti "Gay" and believe those who fit that description are fair game. Owning a gun is really not the impetus for what happened in Orlando so let's be sure we separate the two when talking.

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The issue that Potus fails to mention or to identify here is that Muslims are anti "Gay" and believe those who fit that description are fair game. Owning a gun is really not the impetus for what happened in Orlando so let's be sure we separate the two when talking.

 

Bingo

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First of all, I would like to send prayers to all those affected by the senseless and horrendous massacre in Orlando, Fla. This hardly seams the appropriate time but since it was brought up by President Obama in his address to the Nation yesterday (Gun control) and it sparked this thread, I will add my tidbit and move on.

 

As a law abiding citizen/gun owner, I am all for further/deeper scrutiny prior to obtaining a permit allowing the purchase of any gun, however, don't tell me what I can or cannot buy, how many or what kind of guns I can own!

 

I have paid my dues to this Country and will continue to defend it, if and when it becomes necessary.

 

Like previously stated by Saunders, the assault weapons that are mentioned are no different than a hunting rifle these days (not full auto weapons)!

 

Do they hold more ammunition than a .375, .45/70, 270, 336, .30-30, .308, 30/06, .40, .45, 44mag or 9mm, yes!

 

Are they more lethal than any of the others I mentioned, no!

 

So the question may be asked, why would anyone want such a gun?

 

The answer is, because it's available, and if someone is cleared (I would agree to deeper scrutiny) to own any firearm, leave them the F alone!

 

Again, as a legal gun owner, I have zero problem increasing background checks to insure those who are looking to acquire them, fit the bill.

 

*Edit, (if there is any mental health issues, group affiliation or any other provable concerns), then they do not pass the background check, period!

My question, particularly with your last line, is what constitutes as provable concerns? Unfortunately, we've seen several cases now where people have committed acts of violence despite several red flags. Those red flags existed with this most recent mass murderer, and they existed with another shooter recently who was on several no-fly lists and was still able to get a gun.

 

Should being on a no-fly list be reason enough to ban gun ownership? Should being suspected of terroristic activity/affiliations - in any way - ban gun ownership? I've gone my entire life without every ending up on a no-fly list or being suspected of terroristic activities, so to me, these seem like reasonable road blocks.

 

The last thing I want to see is what I saw one of my relatives post on Facebook today - massive arming of America's citizens to "stop s*** like this from happening." Guns wouldn't have been allowed in that nightclub anyways, nor hundreds of other gun-free zones across the county. And I don't think most states are going to move towards looser gun laws any time soon.

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Yes, that's ridiculous. But I'm interested in hearing you flesh out this scenario more.

 

Me or Redux, and flesh out about what subject matter "Gun Control" or the "Orlando incident"?

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Yes, that's ridiculous. But I'm interested in hearing you flesh out this scenario more.

Flesh out what, acts of terrorism by muslim extremists? Yeah I guess you're right, that could never happen except for all the times it did happen and will continue to happen.

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The issue that Potus fails to mention or to identify here is that Muslims are anti "Gay" and believe those who fit that description are fair game. Owning a gun is really not the impetus for what happened in Orlando so let's be sure we separate the two when talking.

Bingo

 

Traditional Muslim and Christian values go against gays. Although Islam has tended to be more violently reactive to homosexuality, this mindset/argument clouds the issue. Weapons, mental health and murderous motives are all intertwined.

 

This is exactly what the power players in this debate want - people trying to focus on one piece over the other instead of looking at them as one cohesive unit.

 

Guns are a huge problem.

 

People are a huge problem.

 

Stop trying to make it one or the other.

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Yes, that's ridiculous. But I'm interested in hearing you flesh out this scenario more.

Flesh out what, acts of terrorism by muslim extremists? Yeah I guess you're right, that could never happen except for all the times it did happen and will continue to happen.

 

Gun violence in communities, on our own soil, is far more rampant than acts of terrorism from Muslim extremists on our soil.

 

23, 344 shooting incidents have happened in 2016 so far in the U.S. Almost 6,000 of those involved someone dying.

 

I'm not trying to downplay the dangers of terroristic acts against America, but we have a bigger problem neighbor to neighbor than anything else.

 

Edit - I had to adjust some numbers there as they were off. Should be accurate now.

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We could very easily make aquiring a purchase permit much more difficult. There have to be steps we can take that don't go to the extreme of making firearms illegal to own or purchase. I'm open to hearing them, but 9/10 people just suggest they be made illegal.

 

 

B.S.

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First of all, I would like to send prayers to all those affected by the senseless and horrendous massacre in Orlando, Fla. This hardly seams the appropriate time but since it was brought up by President Obama in his address to the Nation yesterday (Gun control) and it sparked this thread, I will add my tidbit and move on.

 

As a law abiding citizen/gun owner, I am all for further/deeper scrutiny prior to obtaining a permit allowing the purchase of any gun, however, don't tell me what I can or cannot buy, how many or what kind of guns I can own!

 

I have paid my dues to this Country and will continue to defend it, if and when it becomes necessary.

 

Like previously stated by Saunders, the assault weapons that are mentioned are no different than a hunting rifle these days (not full auto weapons)!

 

Do they hold more ammunition than a .375, .45/70, 270, 336, .30-30, .308, 30/06, .40, .45, 44mag or 9mm, yes!

 

Are they more lethal than any of the others I mentioned, no!

 

So the question may be asked, why would anyone want such a gun?

 

The answer is, because it's available, and if someone is cleared (I would agree to deeper scrutiny) to own any firearm, leave them the F alone!

 

Again, as a legal gun owner, I have zero problem increasing background checks to insure those who are looking to acquire them, fit the bill.

 

*Edit, (if there is any mental health issues, group affiliation or any other provable concerns), then they do not pass the background check, period!

My question, particularly with your last line, is what constitutes as provable concerns? Unfortunately, we've seen several cases now where people have committed acts of violence despite several red flags. Those red flags existed with this most recent mass murderer, and they existed with another shooter recently who was on several no-fly lists and was still able to get a gun.

 

Should being on a no-fly list be reason enough to ban gun ownership? Should being suspected of terroristic activity/affiliations - in any way - ban gun ownership? I've gone my entire life without every ending up on a no-fly list or being suspected of terroristic activities, so to me, these seem like reasonable road blocks.

 

The last thing I want to see is what I saw one of my relatives post on Facebook today - massive arming of America's citizens to "stop s*** like this from happening." Guns wouldn't have been allowed in that nightclub anyways, nor hundreds of other gun-free zones across the county. And I don't think most states are going to move towards looser gun laws any time soon.

 

 

 

Good points Enhance;

 

Your first point:

 

Yes, I would say that if you are on a no fly list or have such proven affiliations, this in itself would keep you from acquiring a permit to buy a gun. Now, you and I both know that if a criminal and or terrorist wants to use a gun, plane, automobile or other to make their statement, they will find a way.

 

Your second point:

 

I believe that if more people had concealed carry permits, there is a likelihood that crime would diminish to some degree! While I know that the population level plays a part in criminal activity, I do believe that rural america, being fully armed, has to keep the criminal element mindful about what home they try to break into. A criminal knows that farmer Joe will rearrange his facial features should he barge in uninvited!

 

As for the gun free zones, I suspect this is already changing as they are already allowing teachers to carry!

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Yes, that's ridiculous. But I'm interested in hearing you flesh out this scenario more.

Flesh out what, acts of terrorism by muslim extremists? Yeah I guess you're right, that could never happen except for all the times it did happen and will continue to happen.

The one where America bans guns and that is what opens the floodgates to a mass ISIS invasion whereby we are all slaughtered.

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