knapplc Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I don't think he projects as a strong leader around the world. I am sure that a lot will disagree with this, but it is my opinion. I'll tell you who disagrees with that - most of the free world. He's viewed as a strong leader by all of our allies. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/24/7-charts-on-how-the-world-views-president-obama/ Link to comment
huKSer Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Silly me, I must be one of the few that thought the thread title was "The Obama Legacy", many posters interpreted it as the "The Bush Legacy". So I created a parallel thread called "The Bush Legacy" for those who don't want to derail a thread. Mods - I know you can merge threads, but can you split them? Link to comment
TGHusker Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) A few of thoughts from my perspective 1. Has the Repub congress been obstructionist - yes and no. Yes, they opposed Obamacare when they were the minority and had no way of stopping it. They have since used it as an election rally cry ever since without doing anything substantial to improve or replace it. Just like they use abortion as an election hook, they have used Obamacare as a hook to corral all of the conservative voters into the "you have to vote for me because I will, I may, I might I hope do something about abortion or Obamacare. I'm tired of empty promises. Conservative voters have been held on the "plantation" just like AA voters have been by Dem rhetoric. However, the repubs have also passed, to the dismay of most repubs voters (thus the rise of Trump and Cruz), most of what Obama has wanted in the budget. The congress has been weak and has not used the power of the purse to reign in spending or control out of control agencies like the IRS and the EPA. They have 'hearings' but do nothing. Thus the revolt against the 'ruling class' establishment in the Presidential election. During the 1st 2 years of his presidency, Obama could have gotten anything he wanted with the super majorities. 2. As discussed in other threads, it is too early to say what Obama's legacy will be and even GWB. I think Carter still remains at the bottom wt Harding, Buchanan and a couple of others. I think the legacy will reflect negatively on Obama in the foreign affairs area. Bush made the huge mistake of going into Iraq and making the war on terror a two country war. Obama made I think the equally big mistake of pulling out too soon and not responding fast and strong enough to the JV Team now called ISIS. When Obama came to office I was still a GWB fan. I think GWB did some good things. But, after much thought about Iraq, I think Obama will end up being rated higher. If GWB had just conducted the war in Afgan, then his legacy would be much different. I think the strain of the 2nd war in Iraq, + the tax cuts and of course the housing crash (a democratic presidential house of cards that fell during GWB's term) all led to the great recession. Wtout Iraq the great recession may have been a lessor issue. Obama will go down as one of those "Transformational" presidents. Like LBJ's term ushered in civil right laws and the great society, Reagan's ushered in the end of the cold war and the beginning of globalization as a result, Obamas change will be reflected in cultural changes as noted in my next point. 3. Domestically - cultural, Obama has pushed the envelope on social issues. This is where the Obama legacy will be most defined in my opinion. For example, I think our military has been filled wt "political" leaders with a cultural agenda instead of military leaders. Now we have implementation of the full social agenda by our military. The military exists to keep us safe and not to be a social experiment - now transgender are ok. http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2016/06/29/military-transgender-policy-ash-carter/86476604/ . Only time will tell how history looks back on this era of huge change in our culture. Many see it as good while others see it as destabilizing us from strong foundations. It is way to early to see if the envelope was pushed too hard. Race relationships, sexual ID issues, boarder/immigration issues are all huge social culture trends that have been at the forefront of Obama's 8 years. As Paul Harvey use to say - "You can't un-ring the bell" . These issues are now at the forefront of American culture and that toothpaste isn't going back into the tube. I think it will be a multi-generational leveling out process in our society to see how these changes will be judged by history. This is hard to grade - C at best. 4. Domestically - economy. While I think GWB inherited a bad economy that got worse by 9/11 it does not compare to what Obama and Reagan both inherited. Having lived through the Reagan years and the Obama years as an adult, I think Reagan's inheritance was worse - it felt worse (maybe due to my age, career at that point). The Carter doldrums - collective societal mental depression - was a real thing back then. We though the best years were behind us and we would have to accept far less. Interest rates, unemployment were at the highest since the great depression plus we had a failed foreign policy and the threat of nuclear war. Reagan changed that because he 1st told us to believe in ourselves as Americans again. We then had the greatest expansion of our economy is a century. I don't think Obama be judged harshly in this area. I think he will get a C grade - because the economy has recovered but has recovery the slowest of any recovery during the past century. Maybe the turtle recovery is ok if it keeps us out of going back into a recession. Some would argue that when you look at growth # and real unemployment we may still be close to a recession. I don't think you can blame Obama entirely for the slow growth - you have to look at how our economy is structured now - far fewer manufacturing jobs which use to be the generator of growth and a sign of a strong recovery. I think globalization, outsourcing etc have its own affect on how quickly we can recover from downturns. This is a multi decade, multi president issue. Obama gets a C+ to B- here 5. Terrorism/Military/foreign affairs: I think Obama will not be rate highly regarding terrorism and how strong of a military response we have had to it. The Iran deal is not a good deal. We have tried to befriend old enemies (which is ok if there are equal concessions), alienated friends like Israel, and have allowed new partners/old foes, China and Russia, to flex their muscles without challenge in the South Chine Sea and in Eastern Europe respectively. ISIS has grown from JV to a world wide threat - even as they loose territory in Iraq. Syria response was weak and changing, Libya is a mess/disaster. While GWB was considered too 'COWBOY' and independent, I think Obama is too Milk Toast. Obama gets a D grade here at best 6. Budget Constraint: 19 Trillion in debt. This is a failure of our federal govt as a whole. The congress has failed in its responsibilities and Obama's stimulus programs, ACA, and other new spending have placed a huge multi-generational weight on the citizens. I blame both Dems and Repubs. As the leader I give Obama a F and Congress also a F in regards to this. Overall - C- to C grade (For perspective When I first joined Huskerboard - I would have said a F) Edited June 30, 2016 by TGHusker Link to comment
Landlord Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I don't think he projects as a strong leader around the world. I am sure that a lot will disagree with this, but it is my opinion. The majority of the world thinks very highly of Obama. It's pretty much just half of the United States that doesn't think he's been a good president. As far as being thin-skinned, that just seems like an imaginary critique in your head to me. I've seen him have calm, respectful conversations with people COMPLETELY on the other side of issues from him, acknowledging their viewpoints and giving his own. I've also seen him show a lot of humility as President, expressing regret over things he could have done better or wasn't able to accomplish. If we had a Republican President that had a similar demeanor, Fox News and right-leaning news outlets wouldn't stop blowing their load over his character, but when it's Obama, they spin it to where he's weak, spineless, hates America so much he has to apologize for it constantly and wearing mom jeans. It's weird. Link to comment
huKSer Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. Prize motivation: "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples" Good for him. Bad for the Nobel Prize committee for rewarding "extraordinary efforts", essentially turning the Nobel Peace Prize into a participation ribbon. His "extraordinary efforts" consisted of doing a speech tour of the Mid-East, you know, where ISIS is located, stating that the US is not the enemy of Islam. Which is good compared to the current climate, but he really didn't accomplish anything of substance (Teddy Roosevelt and Jimmy Carter helped negotiate actual peace agreements) 1 Link to comment
huKSer Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Given the choice, I think the majority of Americans, if honest, given the choice of Obama, Clinton or Trump would pick Obama again. I am a Republican and I know I would 2 Link to comment
knapplc Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. Prize motivation: "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples" Good for him. Bad for the Nobel Prize committee for rewarding "extraordinary efforts", essentially turning the Nobel Peace Prize into a participation ribbon. His "extraordinary efforts" consisted of doing a speech tour of the Mid-East, you know, where ISIS is located, stating that the US is not the enemy of Islam. Which is good compared to the current climate, but he really didn't accomplish anything of substance (Teddy Roosevelt and Jimmy Carter helped negotiate actual peace agreements) That Nobel Prize was a joke. He won it barely a year into office. He even said he didn't deserve it: I am both surprised and deeply humbled by the decision of the Nobel Committee. Let me be clear: I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments, but rather as an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations. To be honest, I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many of the transformative figures who've been honored by this prize -- men and women who've inspired me and inspired the entire world through their courageous pursuit of peace. But that Nobel Prize is pretty good proof that the rest of the world holds Obama in much greater esteem than American conservatives. Even if, somehow, they're able to tarnish Obama's legacy enough to downgrade him to a mediocre president in America, the rest of the world will continue to believe him a good, if not great, president. Link to comment
huKSer Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 But that Nobel Prize is pretty good proof that the rest of the world holds Obama in much greater esteem than American conservatives. Even if, somehow, they're able to tarnish Obama's legacy enough to downgrade him to a mediocre president in America, the rest of the world will continue to believe him a good, if not great, president. As far as what I think of the world's opinion on things American, the greatest American actor, to the French is Jerry Lewis I kid you not! Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Given the choice, I think the majority of Americans, if honest, given the choice of Obama, Clinton or Trump would pick Obama again. I am a Republican and I know I would It absolutely amazes me to say this. But, I've been thinking the same thing. If I had had to vote for one of those three, I would probably vote for Obama. I have said that around people in real life and they about flip out claiming we need someone knew. So...then, I ask, which of the two top candidates are bette? Usually they don't have an answer. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Given the choice, I think the majority of Americans, if honest, given the choice of Obama, Clinton or Trump would pick Obama again. I am a Republican and I know I would It absolutely amazes me to say this. But, I've been thinking the same thing. If I had had to vote for one of those three, I would probably vote for Obama. I have said that around people in real life and they about flip out claiming we need someone knew. So...then, I ask, which of the two top candidates are bette? Usually they don't have an answer. Yes, it is pretty bad when the guy you want to beat is still considered better than the 'solution'. This is the case of a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush or it is better to have the 'enemy/dictator' that you know vs the one you don't know. With that said - I can see a few things that Trump could accomplished if his inner child was channeled by some mature adults around him. But I have strong reservations that his inner child could ever be channeled. Hillary is corruption central. Nothing redeeming there. I'm leaning Gary Johnson - even though he is 'out there' on some things but I think he and Weld would act more wisely and adult like than either Trump or Hillary. Link to comment
Lil' Red Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I don't think he projects as a strong leader around the world. I am sure that a lot will disagree with this, but it is my opinion. I'll tell you who disagrees with that - most of the free world. He's viewed as a strong leader by all of our allies. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/24/7-charts-on-how-the-world-views-president-obama/ They just came out with another poll yesterday that shows how well he does compared to other world leaders and the presidential candidates. Link 2 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I don't think he projects as a strong leader around the world. I am sure that a lot will disagree with this, but it is my opinion. I'll tell you who disagrees with that - most of the free world. He's viewed as a strong leader by all of our allies. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/24/7-charts-on-how-the-world-views-president-obama/ They just came out with another poll yesterday that shows how well he does compared to other world leaders and the presidential candidates. Link Our strongest Middle East friend isn't on the list - Israel. Link to comment
Guy Chamberlin Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I'm still confused. Is Obama: a) the Imperial President who has forced his unwanted vision upon America or b) A President who has accomplished virtually nothing due to obstructionism. Link to comment
NUinID Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I don't think he projects as a strong leader around the world. I am sure that a lot will disagree with this, but it is my opinion. I'll tell you who disagrees with that - most of the free world. He's viewed as a strong leader by all of our allies. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/24/7-charts-on-how-the-world-views-president-obama/ That is why it is called my opinion. Sorry I don't see him as some great President. Link to comment
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