Terrorism, Russia, NATO, Trump

[Moiraine]

Less than 400 people have been killed in terrorist attacks in Europe since the Ukrainian conflict started.

 

Russia has killed over 2,000 Ukrainians since the Ukrainian conflict started.

 

Trump wants us to abandon NATO members who don't pay us "enough." The countries bordering Russia don't have the means to pay us "enough." They are still recovering from being part of the Soviet Union.

 

I want someone to explain logically why it would be okay for us to abandon them to Russian invasion but we should go batsh#t crazy when a terrorist group does the same thing but kills less people.

[zoogs]

Because it would make America great again.

 

There's not actual policy behind Trump's bluster. He doesn't do the work. He doesn't care about the details. He likely didn't even mean what he said.

 

ut throw out enough loud words, and distractions, and he's hoping that his supporters will either not care or convince themselves into shrugging, and that this opponents will splinter into sparring camps. He might achieve all of that yet. It would scarcely be fair to underestimate this reality TV star who has played us all like a fiddle, to date.

[TGHusker]

 

Trump doesn't want to abandon NATO, he wants to reorganize it, esp the funding responsibilities.

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/whats-trumps-position-on-nato/

 

However, due to his inexperience, lack of understanding, he has made dangerous or misguided statements. Mike Pence had to come an rescue him - which I suspect will occur over and over again.

 

The contretemps over Trump's NATO remarks brought an immediate response from his campaign. Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, the Republican vice presidential nominee, told Fox News that Trump would stand by America's allies, adding that he was simply urging nation's to "begin to carry the financial costs of these international obligations

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/21/trumps-pay--else-nato-comments-send-chill-through-europe/87385908/

[84HuskerLaw]

Trump is not abandoning NATO - Obama has already done that. What is "NATO" at this point. Turkey is a NATO member and had a coup going on and we did basically nothing and have done nothing. Our relations with every NATO country have deteriorated under Obama and Clinton to the point we can hardly count on any of the other members to stand by us in a real threat situation beyond the token bluster you get from 'leaders' of these countries.

 

The British voted to get out of the EU for similar reasons. They could not count on their members to be supportive. The entire refugee mess is a clear indication that the internal politics of many NATO nations are so screwed up and of course the finances of all of them (the USA too btw) as to pose a clear and present danger to the economic and therefore military security of the entire western world. Being allied with a bunch of countries that take and never give back is stupid. We apparently can't seem to help them stop these horrific terror attacks and they have little or no aid to offer us to prevent the attacks here.

 

Russia is no doubt meddling in international affairs for any number of reasons but would NOT be but for the fact that Obama is obviously asleep at the switch. As the saying goes, "when the cat's away, the mice will play!" But PUTIN is basically not threatening the United States and if Europe doesn't feel the urgency to respond to PUTIN's aggressive posture, then why would the US?

 

The entire planet is unstable. Like the giant tectonic plates, countries and continents are in the process of shifting and rearranging themselves from the pressures and forces unleashed by an AWOL United States. Naïve 'leaders' from Clinton and Obama to Kerry and Company have demonstrated they are clueless as to very nature and complexity of international politics. Anticipating problems and putting out the fires before they get out of control is the function of the State Department utilizing the myriad powers and influence of the United States and its allies and organizational powers. Without close cooperation and LEADERSHIP OF THE UNITED STATES the world is a big mess.

Whether Trump is brilliant enough at the strategic and political issues to be dealt with in the coming decade is a serious question. But we sure as hell know Hillary is a major part of the problem and NOT the solution.

[huKSer]

Trump is not abandoning NATO - Obama has already done that. What is "NATO" at this point. Turkey is a NATO member and had a coup going on and we did basically nothing and have done nothing. Our relations with every NATO country have deteriorated under Obama and Clinton to the point we can hardly count on any of the other members to stand by us in a real threat situation beyond the token bluster you get from 'leaders' of these countries.

 

The British voted to get out of the EU for similar reasons. They could not count on their members to be supportive. The entire refugee mess is a clear indication that the internal politics of many NATO nations are so screwed up and of course the finances of all of them (the USA too btw) as to pose a clear and present danger to the economic and therefore military security of the entire western world. Being allied with a bunch of countries that take and never give back is stupid. We apparently can't seem to help them stop these horrific terror attacks and they have little or no aid to offer us to prevent the attacks here.

 

Russia is no doubt meddling in international affairs for any number of reasons but would NOT be but for the fact that Obama is obviously asleep at the switch. As the saying goes, "when the cat's away, the mice will play!" But PUTIN is basically not threatening the United States and if Europe doesn't feel the urgency to respond to PUTIN's aggressive posture, then why would the US?

 

The entire planet is unstable. Like the giant tectonic plates, countries and continents are in the process of shifting and rearranging themselves from the pressures and forces unleashed by an AWOL United States. Naïve 'leaders' from Clinton and Obama to Kerry and Company have demonstrated they are clueless as to very nature and complexity of international politics. Anticipating problems and putting out the fires before they get out of control is the function of the State Department utilizing the myriad powers and influence of the United States and its allies and organizational powers. Without close cooperation and LEADERSHIP OF THE UNITED STATES the world is a big mess.

Whether Trump is brilliant enough at the strategic and political issues to be dealt with in the coming decade is a serious question. But we sure as hell know Hillary is a major part of the problem and NOT the solution.

+1 for content

 

+100 for paragraphs

[BigRedBuster]

I still get back to the fact that Hillary is getting screwed because a foreign country hacked into a private email server......

[ZRod]

I still get back to the fact that Hillary is getting screwed because a foreign country hacked into a private email server......

But it wasn't her server! Maybe we should all switch to Hill's servers for better security.

[zoogs]

 

Also ...

 

[TGHusker]

Trump is not abandoning NATO - Obama has already done that. What is "NATO" at this point. Turkey is a NATO member and had a coup going on and we did basically nothing and have done nothing. Our relations with every NATO country have deteriorated under Obama and Clinton to the point we can hardly count on any of the other members to stand by us in a real threat situation beyond the token bluster you get from 'leaders' of these countries.

 

The British voted to get out of the EU for similar reasons. They could not count on their members to be supportive. The entire refugee mess is a clear indication that the internal politics of many NATO nations are so screwed up and of course the finances of all of them (the USA too btw) as to pose a clear and present danger to the economic and therefore military security of the entire western world. Being allied with a bunch of countries that take and never give back is stupid. We apparently can't seem to help them stop these horrific terror attacks and they have little or no aid to offer us to prevent the attacks here.

 

Russia is no doubt meddling in international affairs for any number of reasons but would NOT be but for the fact that Obama is obviously asleep at the switch. As the saying goes, "when the cat's away, the mice will play!" But PUTIN is basically not threatening the United States and if Europe doesn't feel the urgency to respond to PUTIN's aggressive posture, then why would the US?

 

The entire planet is unstable. Like the giant tectonic plates, countries and continents are in the process of shifting and rearranging themselves from the pressures and forces unleashed by an AWOL United States. Naïve 'leaders' from Clinton and Obama to Kerry and Company have demonstrated they are clueless as to very nature and complexity of international politics. Anticipating problems and putting out the fires before they get out of control is the function of the State Department utilizing the myriad powers and influence of the United States and its allies and organizational powers. Without close cooperation and LEADERSHIP OF THE UNITED STATES the world is a big mess.

Whether Trump is brilliant enough at the strategic and political issues to be dealt with in the coming decade is a serious question. But we sure as hell know Hillary is a major part of the problem and NOT the solution.

Well stated. While we may be tired of being the 'world police' if we don't step up to the role and lead, then less desirable will fill the void. By leading, we don't have to be nation building like GWB or constantly at war. I think the pendulum swung to far the other direction under Obama - wt the 'lead from behind', the red line in the desert, and the reset button with Russia - whatever that was.

[BigRedBuster]

I have absolutely zero desire to be the world police if at least Europe doesn't contribute proportionately. In fact, I would prefer them to take the lead in hot spots and we do supply and support for their men and women being on the ground and in the line of fire.

 

They are the ones right now having a much bigger problem with terrorism...etc.

 

When we take the lead and go do something big, we get criticized from foreign leaders. So....hey.....you're the one with the problem, you be the leader and go fight your fight. We're behind you 100%.

[Moiraine]

I have absolutely zero desire to be the world police if at least Europe doesn't contribute proportionately. In fact, I would prefer them to take the lead in hot spots and we do supply and support for their men and women being on the ground and in the line of fire.

 

They are the ones right now having a much bigger problem with terrorism...etc.

 

When we take the lead and go do something big, we get criticized from foreign leaders. So....hey.....you're the one with the problem, you be the leader and go fight your fight. We're behind you 100%.

Do you want the former Sovient Union countries to be alone in fighting Russia? They will lose. They simply can't afford to take Russia on by themselves. When did people decide they were okay with Russia gaining more power? Why did we help Kuwait when we did? I just don't get it.

 

I also don't get why we are so vehemently against terrorism in Europe but are fine with Russia killing more people.

 

Also, believe it or not (RE: your previous reply) I didn't post this because of anything Clinton said or because of the emails. The DNC isn't innocent just because someone revealed the emails. I've been annoyed at people admiring Putin for a long time. Months ago people were basically saying Obama should be more manly like Putin. The same Putin who has journalists killed if they say things he doesn't like.

[Landlord]

Anticipating problems and putting out the fires before they get out of control is the function of the State Department utilizing the myriad powers and influence of the United States and its allies and organizational powers.

 

 

So, if fires are put out before they become fires, then how do regular citizens like 84HuskerLaw know about their non-existence.

 

What I'm saying is, it's cute that you talk like you have a clue what actually goes on.

[BigRedBuster]

 

I have absolutely zero desire to be the world police if at least Europe doesn't contribute proportionately. In fact, I would prefer them to take the lead in hot spots and we do supply and support for their men and women being on the ground and in the line of fire.

 

They are the ones right now having a much bigger problem with terrorism...etc.

 

When we take the lead and go do something big, we get criticized from foreign leaders. So....hey.....you're the one with the problem, you be the leader and go fight your fight. We're behind you 100%.

Do you want the former Sovient Union countries to be alone in fighting Russia? They will lose. They simply can't afford to take Russia on by themselves. When did people decide they were okay with Russia gaining more power? Why did we help Kuwait when we did? I just don't get it.

 

I also don't get why we are so vehemently against terrorism in Europe but are fine with Russia killing more people.

 

Also, believe it or not (RE: your previous reply) I didn't post this because of anything Clinton said or because of the emails. The DNC isn't innocent just because someone revealed the emails. I've been annoyed at people admiring Putin for a long time. Months ago people were basically saying Obama should be more manly like Putin. The same Putin who has journalists killed if they say things he doesn't like.

 

I did not say anything about those countries going it alone. I want Europe to step up and take the lead. We will support their efforts.

 

I have equal problems with both terrorism and Russia killing more people.

 

I'm not sure why these comments are towards me. I think I've made it clear I despise the one candidate who thinks Putin is the greatest thing since pockets on a shirt.

[BigRedBuster]

 

Anticipating problems and putting out the fires before they get out of control is the function of the State Department utilizing the myriad powers and influence of the United States and its allies and organizational powers.

 

 

So, if fires are put out before they become fires, then how do regular citizens like 84HuskerLaw know about their non-existence.

 

What I'm saying is, it's cute that you talk like you have a clue what actually goes on.

 

This line of thinking always annoys me when people think organizations like the TSA are a joke and they don't do anything because we haven't had any terrorists attack our airlines. Ummmm.....how do we know they haven't attacked us BECAUSE of the TSA?

[WoodyHayes1951]

1.The U.S provoked the "invasion" of Russia by backing a coup of a Democratically elected President.

 

2. How many countries has the U.S. invaded since WWII? How many coups has it backed? Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt, plenty in South America, etc

 

3. Russia isn't the Soviet Union.

 

4. Bretton Woods needs to be reconsidered and NATO is a cold war fossil that needs to be retired.