Tommy Armstrong Inconsistency, Michael Rose-Ivey Injury

[ColoradoHusk]

 

 

Despite the setbacks, they WERE pretty damn good offensively last year.

I think they would have been better than 43rd in scoring. Just my opinion.

 

 

No team in the B1G had a very high scoring offense. (We were 3rd.) It might have something to do with the defense our conference puts on the field.

 

I think it's because a lot of offenses in the conference aren't very dynamic. Nebraska has a good offense for the conference.

 

The success of 2016 will depend on the defense, which was awful last year.

[Guy Chamberlin]

 

I am completely confident, that Tommy will give us the best he has. I can not nor will I ask for more. It amazes me how anyone can doubt that. He is a football player. Talent level and ability is the question. We need to support him. Know that no one is trying harder. He is not a top tier quarterback. He is an outstanding athlete playing the position of quarterback. He is what we have. Tearing him down does no one good.

 

I think he will turn the corner this year, with a better completion record and less interceptions. If we lose games because of his performance, no one will feel worse about the outcome. He is a great kid, and I trust we will see him improve this year.

I agree with a lot of your post. It's just worth noting that he's not just an athlete lining up at QB. He was a 4* QB out of HS. Only JT Barrett was ranked higher as recruit among B10 starting QBs this year.

 

He had fairly typical to solid freshman and sophomore years. Then he and his team had to do a complete revamp on offense, and he took a step back (along with many of his teammates). I think that if they hadn't had to go through that, they would have been pretty damn good offensively last year.

 

It's hard for me to judge him when the offense went through that total change over. Especially because he performed at the top among first time QBs in a Riley system.

 

 

I know we're both repeating ourselves now, but I'm almost certain Tommy Armstrong displayed the same strengths and maddening tendencies under Pelini that he did under Riley.

 

The new offense was by no means a total change over or complete revamp. Most plays were perfectly familiar to the players and fans. Adjusting the run/pass ratio to 50:50 rather than 60:40 is more tweak than overhaul, and reflects a team with stronger receivers than running backs -- and a team often behind in the fourth quarter -- more than a schematic change that threw the poor players in a tizzy.

 

It seemed obvious as a spectator — and coaches diplomatically confirmed it — that Tommy Armstrong's versatility and leadership were his strength, so coaches allowed him to make in-play decisions. Too often in 2015, Tommy would ignore tons of open field that was his for the scrambling in order to launch a home run ball to a receiver who wasn't open. The coaches wanted Tommy to run more in those situations. Tommy wanted to pass. If you want to blame the coaches for something -- and that's all you really want to do -- blame them for not curtailing Tommy Armstrong's hero ball instincts. But the plays they called for Tommy were plays Tommy knew how to run. Because he'd been running them for two seasons under Beck.

 

If Tommy Armstrong took a step back last year, it strangely enough landed him as the #2 Total Offense leader in the Big 10.

 

There were games where Tommy could kill the opponent with his arm. Other times he could kill the Huskers with his arm. His legs are a threat only if he's a legitimate threat to pass, and visa-versa. It was a similar situation with Taylor Martinez. You can design schemes to maximize their strengths, but I'm not sure you can change their reckless and occasionally miraculous instincts.

[cm husker]

What you do as a freshman and sophomore typically improves by JR and SR year, as we've seen with a lot of QBs.

 

That progression was disrupted in TA's case, in large part because it wasn't just him learning the new offense, but the whole team. For example, I can think of several incompletions that were due to a guy running a wrong route - not because of a TA error.

 

My issue with the criticisms and my concern about this offense in general is that there are literally times when a correct read results in a wrong "decision." That's a very tough situation to put a QB in at the CFB level. I'm thinking, for example, of that third down play (think it was third down - may have been fourth) where he had a guy open underneath, but he also had a guy in single coverage on the outside fly route, which is considered "open" against that coverage. He chose the "hero throw" because it was the first read in the progression. Seems unfair to question his decision making in that situation, especially as a first year QB in the system.

[Count 'Bility]

What you do as a freshman and sophomore typically improves by JR and SR year, as we've seen with a lot of QBs.

 

That progression was disrupted in TA's case, in large part because it wasn't just him learning the new offense, but the whole team. For example, I can think of several incompletions that were due to a guy running a wrong route - not because of a TA error.

 

My issue with the criticisms and my concern about this offense in general is that there are literally times when a correct read results in a wrong "decision." That's a very tough situation to put a QB in at the CFB level. I'm thinking, for example, of that third down play (think it was third down - may have been fourth) where he had a guy open underneath, but he also had a guy in single coverage on the outside fly route, which is considered "open" against that coverage. He chose the "hero throw" because it was the first read in the progression. Seems unfair to question his decision making in that situation, especially as a first year QB in the system.

LOL What has Beck ever done to suggest progression of TA from 2014 to 2015? Barret and Jones both regressed under his watch.

[cm husker]

 

What you do as a freshman and sophomore typically improves by JR and SR year, as we've seen with a lot of QBs.

 

That progression was disrupted in TA's case, in large part because it wasn't just him learning the new offense, but the whole team. For example, I can think of several incompletions that were due to a guy running a wrong route - not because of a TA error.

 

My issue with the criticisms and my concern about this offense in general is that there are literally times when a correct read results in a wrong "decision." That's a very tough situation to put a QB in at the CFB level. I'm thinking, for example, of that third down play (think it was third down - may have been fourth) where he had a guy open underneath, but he also had a guy in single coverage on the outside fly route, which is considered "open" against that coverage. He chose the "hero throw" because it was the first read in the progression. Seems unfair to question his decision making in that situation, especially as a first year QB in the system.

LOL What has Beck ever done to suggest progression of TA from 2014 to 2015? Barret and Jones both regressed under his watch.

 

 

Martinez progressed - unfortunately he suffered a significant injury.

[StPaulHusker]

 

I'm sure every quarterback through history was 20-20 with 20 TD's during their first padded practice of the season.

 

I played football and I played QB, you don't forget how to throw year after year.

 

[RedSavage]

 

 

What you do as a freshman and sophomore typically improves by JR and SR year, as we've seen with a lot of QBs.

 

That progression was disrupted in TA's case, in large part because it wasn't just him learning the new offense, but the whole team. For example, I can think of several incompletions that were due to a guy running a wrong route - not because of a TA error.

 

My issue with the criticisms and my concern about this offense in general is that there are literally times when a correct read results in a wrong "decision." That's a very tough situation to put a QB in at the CFB level. I'm thinking, for example, of that third down play (think it was third down - may have been fourth) where he had a guy open underneath, but he also had a guy in single coverage on the outside fly route, which is considered "open" against that coverage. He chose the "hero throw" because it was the first read in the progression. Seems unfair to question his decision making in that situation, especially as a first year QB in the system.

LOL What has Beck ever done to suggest progression of TA from 2014 to 2015? Barret and Jones both regressed under his watch.

 

 

Martinez progressed - unfortunately he suffered a significant injury.

 

All thanks to a qb coach named Steve Calhoun, not Tim Beck

[Count 'Bility]

 

 

What you do as a freshman and sophomore typically improves by JR and SR year, as we've seen with a lot of QBs.

 

That progression was disrupted in TA's case, in large part because it wasn't just him learning the new offense, but the whole team. For example, I can think of several incompletions that were due to a guy running a wrong route - not because of a TA error.

 

My issue with the criticisms and my concern about this offense in general is that there are literally times when a correct read results in a wrong "decision." That's a very tough situation to put a QB in at the CFB level. I'm thinking, for example, of that third down play (think it was third down - may have been fourth) where he had a guy open underneath, but he also had a guy in single coverage on the outside fly route, which is considered "open" against that coverage. He chose the "hero throw" because it was the first read in the progression. Seems unfair to question his decision making in that situation, especially as a first year QB in the system.

LOL What has Beck ever done to suggest progression of TA from 2014 to 2015? Barret and Jones both regressed under his watch.

 

 

Martinez progressed - unfortunately he suffered a significant injury.

 

I can watch hours of film on Martinez pre and post injury 2010 and not notice glaring difference to 2012/13. Was there improvement? Sure. Theres always gonna be some based and simple maturity-physically and psychololgically-alone. But we have to quit acting as though he was so light years better in 2012/13 than he was in 2010/11. His flashy plays cant be allowed to overlap some of the head scratchers it took to get there. And it's not on Martinez. It's on garbage qb coaching. Now youre seeing with our current qb. 3 years under Beck and what you know? he's all a sudden got the same off-the-back-foot throwing motion Martinez had. it's not coincidence.

[Guy Chamberlin]

What you do as a freshman and sophomore typically improves by JR and SR year, as we've seen with a lot of QBs.

 

That progression was disrupted in TA's case, in large part because it wasn't just him learning the new offense, but the whole team. For example, I can think of several incompletions that were due to a guy running a wrong route - not because of a TA error.

 

My issue with the criticisms and my concern about this offense in general is that there are literally times when a correct read results in a wrong "decision." That's a very tough situation to put a QB in at the CFB level. I'm thinking, for example, of that third down play (think it was third down - may have been fourth) where he had a guy open underneath, but he also had a guy in single coverage on the outside fly route, which is considered "open" against that coverage. He chose the "hero throw" because it was the first read in the progression. Seems unfair to question his decision making in that situation, especially as a first year QB in the system.

 

I can think of anecdotal situations, too, but the fact is Tommy Armstrong was a 51.9% passer as a freshman, a 53.3% passer as a sophomore, and a 55.2% passer as a junior.

 

Not as much progress as you'd like, but progress.

 

And not exactly evidence that a demanding new system interrupted his natural progression.

 

I agree that Martinez progressed as both a passer and a game manager, even post-injury, but never overcame his ball-handling liabilities and never benefitted from a reliable defense.

[Elf]

It's pretty much impossible to start a new thread relating to fall camp that isn't already being covered by one of Mav's 100 already existing ones somewhere.

Right? Damn that guy!!

[BoKnowsD]

 

 

 

Is there an update on Ivy?

I'm interested as well...

[ColoradoHusk]

Is there an update on Ivy?

Does anyone call him Ivy? I've always called him Rose or Rose-Ivey.

[Waldo]

 

 

Is there an update on Ivy?

Does anyone call him Ivy? I've always called him Rose or Rose-Ivey.

Do you have any friends?

[NUinID]

 

What you do as a freshman and sophomore typically improves by JR and SR year, as we've seen with a lot of QBs.

 

That progression was disrupted in TA's case, in large part because it wasn't just him learning the new offense, but the whole team. For example, I can think of several incompletions that were due to a guy running a wrong route - not because of a TA error.

 

My issue with the criticisms and my concern about this offense in general is that there are literally times when a correct read results in a wrong "decision." That's a very tough situation to put a QB in at the CFB level. I'm thinking, for example, of that third down play (think it was third down - may have been fourth) where he had a guy open underneath, but he also had a guy in single coverage on the outside fly route, which is considered "open" against that coverage. He chose the "hero throw" because it was the first read in the progression. Seems unfair to question his decision making in that situation, especially as a first year QB in the system.

 

I can think of anecdotal situations, too, but the fact is Tommy Armstrong was a 51.9% passer as a freshman, a 53.3% passer as a sophomore, and a 55.2% passer as a junior.

 

Not as much progress as you'd like, but progress.

 

And not exactly evidence that a demanding new system interrupted his natural progression.

 

I agree that Martinez progressed as both a passer and a game manager, even post-injury, but never overcame his ball-handling liabilities and never benefitted from a reliable defense.

 

 

IMO TA actually regressed passing the ball his Sophomore year. He never got over the high ankle injury and developed even worse throwing form than he had as a freshman. He then got better as a Jr and was doing really well untill the injury as a Sr.

[Landlord]

^ TM, not TA. But you're right - Taylor's sophomore campaign was very underwhelming, and his junior year showed not only a huge improvement in talent/production/stats, but also in the ability to take over games and be the guy that the team could lean on to will them to victory.

 

We don't win the Northwestern, Penn State, Michigan State and Wisconsin games without Taylor either playing really well, or just competing like crazy.