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Dems Rebuild

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QMany    3,004
52 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I'm pleased that Trumpism isn't winning.

 

But, these wins have been in areas where the Dems typically do OK.  The big test will be if they can win some elections in the middle of the country and more rural areas.  Looking at the Virginia map, it's clear that Dems won the urban areas and Repubs won the rural areas.  That divide is still very clear in America.

 

I don't think you're going to see extreme flips in rural parts of the country. I think you are going to see widespread shift that is going to flip swing districts. 

DOHnigCXUAAX2pb.jpg

Quote

Mr. Northam improved on Mrs. Clinton’s performance in just about every part of the state. He outperformed her in both the white working-class areas where she struggled, and the well-educated areas where she excelled.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/08/us/politics/virginia-governor-results-analysis.html

 

Comparing the 2017 and 2013 VA Gubernational elections:

  • Northam (D) got 5.9% more of the vote than McAuliffe (D).
  • 368,011 more people voted this year.
  • Northam (D) got 335,152 more votes than McAuliffe (D).
  • Ed Gillispie (R) had almost identical % of votes as Cuccinelli (R), 45.1% and 45.2% respectively.

Those % increases and voter turnout increases are really good signs for Democrats.

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TGHusker    1,335
21 minutes ago, Dbqgolfer said:

Just my opinion, but Trump is the  gift that will keep on giving to the Democrats.  Not only will he alienate a lot of the country, the working class will end up seeing him as the fraud he is and will lump all Republicans with him, which is the Republicans fault for lining up behind him ; and conservatism will be confused with Trumpism.

 

This saddens me greatly as a conservative/former republican.

Agree 100%.

In regards to the results in Va , Trump had this to say.  Again, he attacks one of his own for not embracing the greatness that is Trump, doesn't acknowledge that he is a big reason VA went Dem:

 

But after the outcome, Trump quickly distanced himself from Gillespie.

Ed Gillespie worked hard but did not embrace me or what I stand for,” Trump tweeted. “With the economy doing record numbers, we will continue to win, even bigger than before!”

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election/democrats-win-bitter-virginia-governors-race-in-setback-for-trump-idUSKBN1D71D7

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BigRedBuster    8,064
16 minutes ago, Dbqgolfer said:

Just my opinion, but Trump is the  gift that will keep on giving to the Democrats.  Not only will he alienate a lot of the country, the working class will end up seeing him as the fraud he is and will lump all Republicans with him, which is the Republicans fault for lining up behind him ; and conservatism will be confused with Trumpism.

 

This saddens me greatly as a conservative/former republican.

I'm in the same boat as the bolded portion of your post.

 

But, I look at it differently.

 

The Republican party has been starting to go down this path for quite some time.  Their talking points and the crap their media outlets have been spewing for years has culminated in this cesspool we have now.  Trump has latched onto it and brought it all out in the open.  It's bad that Trump is in the Whitehouse and we will go through a period where the Dems gain power because of the loony toon ways Trump and his followers are going about things now.


However, I think Conservatism needed this in the long run.  Hopefully it will be a wakeup call when the majority of his followers look back on this period in history.  The problem is, obviously, what damage is he and his followers going to do in the mean time?  That is what we have to work to minimize.  Hopefully it's a matter of domestic policies here and there that can be fixed.  I'm way more concerned about foreign policy and what damage he does with relationships and getting us in wars.

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zoogs    6,367

The working class should clearly hold the Republicans in a dim view and that has nothing to do with Trump. American conservatism dating back decades is about removing power from the working class.

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dudeguyy    3,488
2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I'm pleased that Trumpism isn't winning.

 

But, these wins have been in areas where the Dems typically do OK.  The big test will be if they can win some elections in the middle of the country and more rural areas.  Looking at the Virginia map, it's clear that Dems won the urban areas and Repubs won the rural areas.  That divide is still very clear in America.

 

Fair enough, but the VA House is gerrymandered to hell, so for them to tie it is a rather big accomplishment. They don't typically do that well in such a rigged House map, so I was pretty happy to see that.

 

I agree. They'll need to play better in rural areas for lower office and in the Midwest. There's still a strong cultural identification with Trumpism for many in these parts that will be a tough obstacle. But they seem to have gotten the message that they need to run people in all those places to win.

 

I agree with what Red said. Northam's win was within the expected range, even though he outperformed all polls by a good margin except Quinnipiac. The president's party usually uses seats in off years. But Dem voters are also notoriously lazy in off years as well. I'm really excited to see them mobilize.

 

I do think this is still a strong repudiation of Trump, though, as well. Gillispie hugged him tightly culturally and lost solidly. Also, this:

 

 

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dudeguyy    3,488
1 hour ago, QMany said:

 

I don't think you're going to see extreme flips in rural parts of the country. I think you are going to see widespread shift that is going to flip swing districts. 

DOHnigCXUAAX2pb.jpg

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/08/us/politics/virginia-governor-results-analysis.html

 

Comparing the 2017 and 2013 VA Gubernational elections:

  • Northam (D) got 5.9% more of the vote than McAuliffe (D).
  • 368,011 more people voted this year.
  • Northam (D) got 335,152 more votes than McAuliffe (D).
  • Ed Gillispie (R) had almost identical % of votes as Cuccinelli (R), 45.1% and 45.2% respectively.

Those % increases and voter turnout increases are really good signs for Democrats.

 

Great post. Thanks Q.

 

Dems finally mobilized their voters in a way they haven't done in a long time. They fell into some really poor habits with Obama because he was so charismatic that their top-down approach to the party worked - they largely neglected local/state races because Obama's coattails were long enough to pull them along to gain seats. But they got destroyed in off years and those local/state parties suffered.

 

I'm glad to see they're building from the ground up and doing it the right way. This is the only way for them to cut into the urban/rural divide which is becoming an increasing problem in terms of the Congress.

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zoogs    6,367

This is a bad, bad, bad, lazy take.

 

A pretty significant statewide victory for the Democrats is going to translate into a roughly 50/50 legislature -- which, entering last night, was 66-34 R. Virginia is not a 66-34 R state, and it was not for the pass however long, either. And yet...

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dudeguyy    3,488
2 minutes ago, zoogs said:

This is a bad, bad, bad, lazy take.

 

A pretty significant statewide victory for the Democrats is going to translate into a roughly 50/50 legislature -- which, entering last night, was 66-34 R. Virginia is not a 66-34 R state, and it was not for the pass however long, either. And yet...

 

Literally just posted the same thought over in Gerrymandering thread...

 

Needless to say, you're right. Barro is way off base.

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Dbqgolfer    173

Probably not popular, but science says, xy=male

                                                                      xx=female

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RedDenver    1,795
2 hours ago, schriznoeder said:

 

In an additional karmic twist, Robert Marshall had previously introduce a transgender bathroom bill (the bill never made it out of committee).

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schriznoeder    149
25 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

In an additional karmic twist, Robert Marshall had previously introduce a transgender bathroom bill (the bill never made it out of committee).

 

That's the best part of this whole story.

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Kiyoat Husker    1,508
3 hours ago, Dbqgolfer said:

Probably not popular, but science says, xy=male

                                                                      xx=female

 

Probably not accurate.

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/01/how-science-helps-us-understand-gender-identity/

https://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943

 

 Scientists that actually study such things have discovered that it really isn't that simple.  many people, perhaps up to 1% or 2% of the human population, have some form of DSD (Disorder of Sex Development) where their anatomy does not match their chromosomes.  There are many things that affect the development of sexual anatomy, and your chromosomes are only one of them.

 

 Also, scientists have discovered through DNA sequencing that most people have a patchwork of genetically distinct cells, some with chromosomes that are either xx or xy.  This can have wide-ranging impacts on your biology.

 

There is a lot more to say on the subject, but at least consider that many scientists no longer think of sex as a simple binary system.  More like a spectrum.

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commando    1,626
3 hours ago, Dbqgolfer said:

Probably not popular, but science says, xy=male

                                                                      xx=female

sorry to burst your bubble...but this administration has declared that science is fake news.

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Huskerzoo    519
6 hours ago, Dbqgolfer said:

Probably not popular, but science says, xy=male

                                                                      xx=female

 

Did you know that science is a lot more complex than that? I'd be happy to recap all the genetic, genitals, psychological, hormonal, and social factors that play into it. I just lectured on it today. 

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BigRedBuster    8,064

What huge price did he pay?  He’s still married. His daughter loves him and defends him.  He didn’t lose his job. He’s worshipped by Democrats. He gets paid 6 figures to speak just because of who he is.  He's revered in many circles as some high moral figure to give insite on any subject.

 

This woman has lost it. 

 

 

Edited by BigRedBuster

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zoogs    6,367

I am extremely unimpressed with the Democrats on this matter. I expected better. I expect Democrat voters to demand better: 

 

https://www.vox.com/2017/11/26/16702090/nancy-pelosi-conyers-sexual-harassment

 



Pelosi has, in the past, worked to push out members involved in inappropriate behavior. But in public, on a popular Sunday show, she ran through a list of excuses for Conyers that are the very reasons women are afraid to come forward and report sexual harassment in the first place:

Conyers is the credible one. He is an “icon,” she told Todd. The woman? “I do not know who they are. Do you?” ...

Conyers is the real victim. Pelosi is withholding judgment until Conyers gets “due process,” she said. But Conyers got something better than due process. Congress wrote the rules for how sexual harassment claims are handled, exempting members from requirements that most other employers must follow. ...

Conyers is a good man. “He understands what is at stake here and he’ll do the right thing,” Pelosi said ...

Conyers cares about women. “He’s done a great deal to protect women,” Pelosi said, pointing out he worked on the Violence Against Women Act. How, she implied, could he have hurt a woman who works for him? ...

Conyers’ behavior isn’t so bad. “Was it one accusation? Was it two?” Pelosi said when talking through how she is considering Conyers’s case. In an age of serial predators, maybe one woman’s story shouldn’t count. ...

To date, I haven't learned too much about Pelosi or had any bones to pick. This is infuriating.

 

Remember the people who had an opportunity to do what was right but instead played the same game all defenders of sexual assault and harassment must play.

 

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QMany    3,004

I agree; the Democrats in Congress that have spoken up have really put their foot in their mouth. Pelosi, WTF? And I haven't seen/heard anything from the young blood like Booker, Harris, etc.

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Nebfanatic    1,077
1 hour ago, zoogs said:

I am extremely unimpressed with the Democrats on this matter. I expected better. I expect Democrat voters to demand better: 

 

https://www.vox.com/2017/11/26/16702090/nancy-pelosi-conyers-sexual-harassment

 

 

 

To date, I haven't learned too much about Pelosi or had any bones to pick. This is infuriating.

 

Remember the people who had an opportunity to do what was right but instead played the same game all defenders of sexual assault and harassment must play.

 

Here is my thing about sexual harassment and believing women. We should always believe the person making the accusation before we believe the accused. 9 times out of 10 when a person comes put and says they were sexually assaulted, it's because they were sexually assaulted. In the very rare case someone cries wolf, the truth of that nearly always comes out. People are innocent until proven guilty in the court of law, but in the court of public opinion, the rules are much different. We need to believe the accusers over the accused because the accused will almost always have a greater motive to lie. In all of these scandals there is one thing that is pretty constant; denial by the accused. These people are not going to take responsibility for their actions so we must force responsibility on them as they forced themselves on to others.

Edited by Nebfanatic

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dudeguyy    3,488
55 minutes ago, QMany said:

I agree; the Democrats in Congress that have spoken up have really put their foot in their mouth. Pelosi, WTF? And I haven't seen/heard anything from the young blood like Booker, Harris, etc.

 

I believe Pelosi is trying to tiptoe around the Congressional Black Caucus, of which Conyers is co-founder (1969) and thus, legend. With the wind at their back heading into 2018, I think she'd rather not ruffle any feathers amongst their rank.

 

I also believe this is a horrible miscalculation and badly misplaying her hand. You can't tiptoe around this stuff, even with a founding member of the CBC. If the allegations against him are reputable (and they appear to be well-sourced), he needs to go, period. Not just step down from leadership roles. Same goes for Franken. I was unsure earlier because the charges against him appear to be of a lesser nature and he seems to be handling the issue better, but this is something it's just not worth equivocating on.

 

Pelosi got too big for her britches on this one. This is something Dems absolutely should demand ideological purity on.

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Big Red 40    66

I’d be interested to see what exactly both parties ideals really are on the major issues we face ? I guess I’m not seeing that the Democrats are really so far away from their original message . 

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RedDenver    1,795
8 minutes ago, Big Red 40 said:

I’d be interested to see what exactly both parties ideals really are on the major issues we face ? I guess I’m not seeing that the Democrats are really so far away from their original message . 

Depends what you think their original message was.

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Big Red 40    66

Following politics since the mid 80s and reading about previous administrations here’s my brief take on the core message  . Democrats are more about putting tax money directly into social programs , supporting workers rights/unions , affordable healthcare, public schools, strong market regulations, stimulus packes etc in an effort to even the playing field for ALL Americans Diplomacy  over war ,  tolerance of all religions , races and sexual preferences . Etc A More  humanistic approach . 

 

 

Edited by Big Red 40

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zoogs    6,367

If we managed to get all the Republicans out of power there would still be fierce political divisions. Contentious ruptures among the left which you can still follow now would expose themselves. Debates will be had, compromises will be made, not everyone will be pleased...but one thing it won't be is a debate between outright evil and "anything other than that".

 

If you want to get to this point where we can fight among the different wings of the Democrats, to either try and discredit the old guard or stem the new tide within that party and so on, there's' a way to try to get there and it absolutely doesn't involve being indifferent as to whether Republicans or Democrats hold majorities in government. I should hope the present makes that perfectly, terrifyingly clear.

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RedDenver    1,795
28 minutes ago, Big Red 40 said:

Following politics since the mid 80s and reading about previous administrations here’s my brief take on the core message  . Democrats are more about putting tax money directly into social programs , supporting workers rights/unions , affordable healthcare, public schools, strong market regulations, stimulus packes etc in an effort to even the playing field for ALL Americans Diplomacy  over war ,  tolerance of all religions , races and sexual preferences . Etc A More  humanistic approach . 

 

 

Dems haven't supported unions and workers rights since the Third Way policies took over starting with Bill Clinton. Nor have they been strong on market regulations.

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Big Red 40    66

I definitely think the left is splintered a bit . Progressives and mainstream Democrats  need find common ground and band together if they’re going to win against the GOP. 

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Big Red 40    66
7 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Dems haven't supported unions and workers rights since the Third Way policies took over starting with Bill Clinton. Nor have they been strong on market regulations.

Obama tried to regulate the markets more than any Republican has , and at the very least didn’t weaken Unions/workers rights as Reagan for instance did .

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RedDenver    1,795
20 minutes ago, Big Red 40 said:

Obama tried to regulate the markets more than any Republican has , and at the very least didn’t weaken Unions/workers rights as Reagan for instance did .

More than the Republicans is an extremely low bar.

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zoogs    6,367

Yes, I agree. It's also a bar that has to be cleared first. We failed to do so in 2016, spectacularly and at all levels, and we will be paying a terrible price for a long time.

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dudeguyy    3,488

Unbelievable that this is an option (a gun-loving moderate who prosecuted the KKK) and the GOP still finds a way to turn him into a free-wheeling puppet of the liberal elite who's going to let the country get destroyed by illegal immigrants, ISIS & the like, all while performing abortions on the Senate floor.... en route to nominating a bigoted, twice-expelled jurist and serial pedophile who preyed on multiple young women, bothered them in school, had to be watched at high school football games & got banned from a local mall.

 

I'm just a carpetbagger from up north, but Jones strikes me as a legitimately great representative of Alabama , sans his pro-choice stance which ruffles a lot of feathers down there.

 

Why are we where we are today?
 

 

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RedDenver    1,795

The Dems tilt the field in favor of the establishment:

 

PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS FIGHT FOR ACCESS TO THE PARTY'S VOTER DATA

Quote

 

In Washington's 9th district, Sarah Smith, a Justice Democrat running a primary campaign against incumbent Democrat Adam Smith, was told that access to VoteBuilder required the endorsement of 50 percent of legislative district clubs, plus one, as well as the backing of the state party chair. But state legislators often wait until close to the actual primary to make an endorsement, Smith says, meaning her campaign would have to spend the majority of the race waiting around for endorsements before gaining access to the data. And even then, the likelihood of sitting party officials endorsing a challenger over an incumbent is low.

 

Smith says she asked to see where that bylaw is written down, but was refused. The Washington state party didn't respond to multiple requests for comment.

 

As a last resort, Sarah Smith's campaign spokesman asked the party for a letter stating they were being denied access to VoteBuilder; at least then, they could get access to SmartVAN. In response, the Smith campaign says they received a Kafka-esque email claiming that even though campaigns can't access VoteBuilder without the endorsements, "in our eyes, a campaign that doesn't have endorsements hasn't been denied."

 

 

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zoogs    6,367

That'd be disappointing, to say the least. 

 

How can progress in this or any other area be made if we have Democrats expending energy pretending that political expediency is actually, in an alternative interpretation, really about values?

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