So...now seeing the extent of Russia and Putin's involvement...how could someone truly support Trump going forward?

[VectorVictor]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/national-security/intelligence-chiefs-expected-in-new-york-to-brief-trump-on-russian-hacking/2017/01/06/5f591416-d41a-11e6-9cb0-54ab630851e8_story.html

From the article:

"The report depicts Russian interference as unprecedented in scale, saying that Moscows assault represented a significant escalation in directness, level of activity, and scope of effort beyond previous election-related espionage.

The campaign was ordered by Putin himself and initially sought primarily to undermine public faith in the U.S. democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton and harm her electoral prospects. But as the campaign proceeded, Russia developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump and repeatedly sought to elevate him by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him."

 

This campaign of disinformation and hacking of both parties came from the top (Putin). The scope is unprecedented, and Trump was designated the recipient of Russia's aid as he was the most "amenable" to Russia's goals.

Now, I get that some of our more "myopic" community chose to support Trump in the election...but knowing this new information, and seeing our intelligence services unified behind this assessment, how can anyone truly support Trump going forward and not be considered a traitor or, at the very least, sympathetic to our enemy's causes and wishes (and therefore detrimental to the long-term welfare of this nation?)

It's one thing to have a disagreement between citizens on policy, funding, free speech...but it's another to support a candidate that we now know our enemy deliberately helped put in place, and that we know has numerous fiscal and business ties to Russia. We're talking national security and national sovereignty at this point.

So help me understand how someone, at this point, knowing what our intelligence community has discovered/assessed, can still support Trump and claim to be supporting America and American Interests?

[NM11046]

Because he tweets that it doesn't matter? Because he's going to build a wall? Because he is a successful business man?

 

But the real answer is ... BECAUSE HE IS GOING TO MAKE AMERICAN GREAT AGAIN.

 

[zoogs]

The Intercept has been taking huge issue with the Post's Russia coverage. I'm curious to see some more coverage on that, because I can't really figure it out.

 

I'm inclined to think The Intercept is trying a little too hard to distinguish itself relative to mainstream sources. I think some of their criticisms have been quite logical, but find some of the credit they seem willing to give ludicrous and verging on devil's advocacy.

[Danny Bateman]

They'll be too buys winning, whatever that means. SO MUCH WINNING.

 

 

 

 

 

That Colbert gif reminds me of an old quote sometimes attributed to Upton Sinclair that applies to the overall direction Trump's administration seems to be heading in. Sinclair was the first man to win the Nobel Prize for literature.

 

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross."

[NUance]

seeing our intelligence services unified behind this assessment,

 

 

 

The main reason the intelligence community has Trump in their crosshairs is because he plans to slash their grossly voluminous budgets. Who really knows how much there is to this Russian hacking thing? There might not be as much to it as is being advertised.

 

 

And for the record, I didn't vote for Trump. I think he's a jackass.

[knapplc]

Who really knows how much there is to this Russian hacking thing?

I'll bet the professionals we pay to do counterintelligence know.

 

 

 

One of worst things Bill Clinton did was to hamstring our intelligence community. Trump seems determined to make that same mistake.

[VectorVictor]

Double post. Thanks Obama. :-|

[VectorVictor]

 

Who really knows how much there is to this Russian hacking thing?

I'll bet the professionals we pay to do counterintelligence know.

 

 

 

One of worst things Bill Clinton did was to hamstring our intelligence community. Trump seems determined to make that same mistake.

It's not *just* Trump now, though--it's also the GOP Congressional members that, instead of standing up and doing what's right.

 

I guess I don't see this as a partisan issue--I see this as an "American" issue, and I don't understand why Trump supporters are content with letting things ride knowing that a Cold War-era Bond villain helped get him elected and has his ear (and more, fiscally-speaking).

[JJ Husker]

So help me understand how someone, at this point, knowing what our intelligence community has discovered/assessed, can still support Trump and claim to be supporting America and American Interests?

First let me start by saying this is not in support of Trump in anyway.

 

How do people make the logic leap by equating what Russia did to a position of not supporting Trump because of it? I really don't understand the connection. Is the claim that they did this at Trump's behest or with his direct knowledge and approval? Why should anyone hold what Putin and Russia did against Trump?

 

Here's an analogy of how I see this. I am a Mike Riley supporter (really want him to be our coach) and I go out and discover a tape where Bo Pelini is bad mouthing NU fans. I release that tape and people discover my motives of wanting MR to be the coach. BP is subsequently fired and MR is hired. Are you telling me that all NU fans should hold that against MR and not support him?

 

BTW- I do see plenty of other reasons for a person to not support Trump. This just isn't one of them IMO.

[Danny Bateman]

 

So help me understand how someone, at this point, knowing what our intelligence community has discovered/assessed, can still support Trump and claim to be supporting America and American Interests?

First let me start by saying this is not in support of Trump in anyway.

 

How do people make the logic leap by equating what Russia did to a position of not supporting Trump because of it? I really don't understand the connection. Is the claim that they did this at Trump's behest or with his direct knowledge and approval? Why should anyone hold what Putin and Russia did against Trump?

 

Here's an analogy of how I see this. I am a Mike Riley supporter (really want him to be our coach) and I go out and discover a tape where Bo Pelini is bad mouthing NU fans. I release that tape and people discover my motives of wanting MR to be the coach. BP is subsequently fired and MR is hired. Are you telling me that all NU fans should hold that against MR and not support him?

 

BTW- I do see plenty of other reasons for a person to not support Trump. This just isn't one of them IMO.

 

 

There's an argument that Trump people were at best complicit and at worst colluded with the Russian government in doing this.

 

The other part where your analogy breaks down, though it is a rather good one, is that Mike Riley never stood up and said "Hey Eichorst, I hope you find a tape of Bo Pelini cussing out his fans so you can fire him and hire me."

 

I think people have a very easy time holding it against him because he encouraged a hostile foreign power to attack us.

[I AM FOOT FOOT]

Did the Russians vote?

[JJ Husker]

 

 

So help me understand how someone, at this point, knowing what our intelligence community has discovered/assessed, can still support Trump and claim to be supporting America and American Interests?

 

First let me start by saying this is not in support of Trump in anyway.

 

How do people make the logic leap by equating what Russia did to a position of not supporting Trump because of it? I really don't understand the connection. Is the claim that they did this at Trump's behest or with his direct knowledge and approval? Why should anyone hold what Putin and Russia did against Trump?

 

Here's an analogy of how I see this. I am a Mike Riley supporter (really want him to be our coach) and I go out and discover a tape where Bo Pelini is bad mouthing NU fans. I release that tape and people discover my motives of wanting MR to be the coach. BP is subsequently fired and MR is hired. Are you telling me that all NU fans should hold that against MR and not support him?

 

BTW- I do see plenty of other reasons for a person to not support Trump. This just isn't one of them IMO.

There's an argument that Trump people were at best complicit and at worst colluded with the Russian government in doing this.

 

The other part where your analogy breaks down, though it is a rather good one, is that Mike Riley never stood up and said "Hey Eichorst, I hope you find a tape of Bo Pelini cussing out his fans so you can fire him and hire me."

 

I think people have a very easy time holding it against him because he encouraged a hostile foreign power to attack us.

Did I miss this? When/where/how did Trump request that Russia or Putin do this before it happened?

[NM11046]

 

 

 

So help me understand how someone, at this point, knowing what our intelligence community has discovered/assessed, can still support Trump and claim to be supporting America and American Interests?

First let me start by saying this is not in support of Trump in anyway.

 

How do people make the logic leap by equating what Russia did to a position of not supporting Trump because of it? I really don't understand the connection. Is the claim that they did this at Trump's behest or with his direct knowledge and approval? Why should anyone hold what Putin and Russia did against Trump?

 

Here's an analogy of how I see this. I am a Mike Riley supporter (really want him to be our coach) and I go out and discover a tape where Bo Pelini is bad mouthing NU fans. I release that tape and people discover my motives of wanting MR to be the coach. BP is subsequently fired and MR is hired. Are you telling me that all NU fans should hold that against MR and not support him?

 

BTW- I do see plenty of other reasons for a person to not support Trump. This just isn't one of them IMO.

There's an argument that Trump people were at best complicit and at worst colluded with the Russian government in doing this.

 

The other part where your analogy breaks down, though it is a rather good one, is that Mike Riley never stood up and said "Hey Eichorst, I hope you find a tape of Bo Pelini cussing out his fans so you can fire him and hire me."

 

I think people have a very easy time holding it against him because he encouraged a hostile foreign power to attack us.

Did I miss this? When/where/how did Trump request that Russia or Putin do this before it happened?

 

Ummmmmm - during the debates when he asked Russia to hack Hillary to find the "missing" emails for starters ...

[NM11046]

 

So help me understand how someone, at this point, knowing what our intelligence community has discovered/assessed, can still support Trump and claim to be supporting America and American Interests?

First let me start by saying this is not in support of Trump in anyway.

 

How do people make the logic leap by equating what Russia did to a position of not supporting Trump because of it? I really don't understand the connection. Is the claim that they did this at Trump's behest or with his direct knowledge and approval? Why should anyone hold what Putin and Russia did against Trump?

 

Here's an analogy of how I see this. I am a Mike Riley supporter (really want him to be our coach) and I go out and discover a tape where Bo Pelini is bad mouthing NU fans. I release that tape and people discover my motives of wanting MR to be the coach. BP is subsequently fired and MR is hired. Are you telling me that all NU fans should hold that against MR and not support him?

 

BTW- I do see plenty of other reasons for a person to not support Trump. This just isn't one of them IMO.

 

I do think he or his team was involved in some direct or indirect way - not sure that there is (or will be) proof of that however.

 

My issue honestly is that he's trying to portray to the American people that we shouldn't trust our own intelligence, and that even if we did that this simply isn't a big deal because they didn't influence the election (which can be debated of course) ... the bigger issue for me is the greater idea that he's giving the impression that whatever happened, however big or small is ok. You know there would be no end to this dialogue if he had lost the election.

[JJ Husker]

 

 

 

 

So help me understand how someone, at this point, knowing what our intelligence community has discovered/assessed, can still support Trump and claim to be supporting America and American Interests?

 

First let me start by saying this is not in support of Trump in anyway.

 

How do people make the logic leap by equating what Russia did to a position of not supporting Trump because of it? I really don't understand the connection. Is the claim that they did this at Trump's behest or with his direct knowledge and approval? Why should anyone hold what Putin and Russia did against Trump?

 

Here's an analogy of how I see this. I am a Mike Riley supporter (really want him to be our coach) and I go out and discover a tape where Bo Pelini is bad mouthing NU fans. I release that tape and people discover my motives of wanting MR to be the coach. BP is subsequently fired and MR is hired. Are you telling me that all NU fans should hold that against MR and not support him?

 

BTW- I do see plenty of other reasons for a person to not support Trump. This just isn't one of them IMO.

There's an argument that Trump people were at best complicit and at worst colluded with the Russian government in doing this.

 

The other part where your analogy breaks down, though it is a rather good one, is that Mike Riley never stood up and said "Hey Eichorst, I hope you find a tape of Bo Pelini cussing out his fans so you can fire him and hire me."

 

I think people have a very easy time holding it against him because he encouraged a hostile foreign power to attack us.

Did I miss this? When/where/how did Trump request that Russia or Putin do this before it happened?

Ummmmmm - during the debates when he asked Russia to hack Hillary to find the "missing" emails for starters ...

Is there anything else?

 

Honestly that just seemed to me to be another of many stupid, unthought out comments on his part. Kind of along the lines of saying you wish someone would just die and then you find out they died a few weeks later. Does anyone really feel that is what caused this to happen?