The Republican Utopia

[knapplc]

$1.6 billion dollars already allocated for the wall, and nobody is saying Mexico is going to pay for it anymore. It's all on us, just like we all knew it would be.

[NM11046]

Saw this today, paraphrasing and it's not coming out as funny:

 

"We're going to have to build a wall around the Clintons, cuz Trump and his gang can't get over it".

[TGHusker]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/344884-republicans-wonder-can-we-govern

 

Utopia has Died.

 

 

Republicans are questioning their ability to govern following seven months of constant turmoil capped by the dramatic failure in the Senate to advance ObamaCare repeal.

GOP lawmakers already face serious divisions over the two biggest items left on the agenda: raising the debt ceiling and reforming the tax code.

The problems underscore how moving on from healthcare won’t necessarily solve the GOP’s problems.

“What we have to be able to do is demonstrate that we’re capable of doing hard things,” said Senate Republican Conference Chairman John ThuneJohn ThuneGOP lawmakers, Trump at odds over insurance paymentsWhite House: Infrastructure bill remains Trump priorityNot in the big city? Your pilot may have less training, thanks to Sen. ThuneMORE (S.D.).

“Healthcare reform is hard. Tax reform is hard. We’ve got to pivot now to tax reform and get an outcome

 

“We’re horrified by the drama coming out of the White House,” said a Republican senator who requested anonymity to comment frankly on the administration.

The lawmaker said the failure of the healthcare bill is a “wakeup call” and a “kick in the butt” for Republican senators to get organized or risk falling into what that person described as the disarray of the White House.

“We don’t want to fall into the same soup,” the lawmaker said.

Signs that the GOP infighting is rapidly extending beyond the White House are now evident, suggesting mounting frustration.

Rep. Ken Buck (R-Colo.), a member of the far-right Freedom Caucus, issued a scathing rebuke of his GOP colleagues this week, declaring, “The Republican Party is dead.”

In an op-ed in The Denver Post, Buck wrote that Republicans had offered voters a “vision for a better America” — ObamaCare repeal, tax reform, a balanced budget —but, so far, have fulfilled none of those conservative promises.

“[W]hat have we done? Congress passed an omnibus spending bill that betrays our values. A replacement for Obamacare lies dead on the Senate floor. We’ve heard about tax reform but seen nothing yet. Immigration reform is talked about more on Fox News than it is on the House floor,” wrote Buck, the former GOP freshman class president who was first elected in 2014.

Buck ended his diatribe with one final insult: calling the GOP’s current leaders “a ‘B-team’ of messengers who distract the nation with frivolities.”

A senior GOP aide argued that the House has been productive and that the problem is Democratic obstruction in the Senate, where 60 votes are needed to pass most controversial legislation.

“Our chamber has been busy passing bills this year, many of which go with little coverage or fanfare, including major ones like the [Department of Veterans Affairs] reform bill and Dodd-Frank repeal,” the aide said.

“The House is racking and stacking bills for the Senate to act on. We can’t control the upper chamber’s agenda.”

Some Republicans are calling on McConnell and other GOP leaders to work more closely with Democrats on big issues such as healthcare and tax reform, making the case that trying to push through major bills on partisan votes is futile when the party is divided between conservatives and moderates.

Some House Republicans say it’s time to work across the aisle, particularly on issues like the debt ceiling and reauthorization of the Children’s Health Insurance Program, which need to be done by the end of September.

“I’m predisposed toward getting reforms done in a number of different areas, and if there’s a potential for bipartisanship, I think that’s the preferred avenue,” said Rep. Ryan Costello (R-Pa.), a member of the moderate Tuesday Group whose swing district includes affluent suburbs outside of Philadelphia.

“You need 60 votes in the Senate for most things, and I think working backward from that premise can yield more legislative successes.”

But conservatives are skeptical that working with Democrats will yield any worthwhile results, laying bare another divide GOP leaders will have to wrestle with in the weeks ahead.

“I would welcome working with Democrats. Sadly, I’m not optimistic that Democrats have any willingness to work together to get anything done,” said conservative Sen. Ted CruzTed CruzEx-Cruz aide: Now Bannon is establishment voice in Trump White HouseMcConnell faces questions, but no test to his leadershipSenate Republicans brush off Trump's healthcare demandsMORE (R-Texas). “The modern Democratic Party is captured by the radical far left.”

[VectorVictor]

Here's an interesting article regarding a far right/Libertarian "Utopia" from Von Ormy, Texas...the "Freest Little City in Texas"

 

For the last few years, Von Ormy has been in near-constant turmoil over basic issues of governance: what form of municipal government to adopt, whether to tax its residents, and how to pay for services such as sewer, police, firefighters and animal control. Along the way, three City Council members were arrested for allegedly violating the Open Meetings Act, and the volunteer fire department collapsed for lack of funds. Nearly everyone in town has an opinion on who’s to blame. But it’s probably safe to say that the vision of the city’s founder, a libertarian lawyer whose family traces its roots in Von Ormy back six generations, has curdled into something that is part comedy, part tragedy.

 

...it's kind of turned into George Orwell’s Animal Farm. We’re all equal, but some of us are more equal than others. There’s nobody competent enough to lead this city and we sure as hell can’t attract anybody to come and fix us.

 

 

It's a pretty interesting cautionary tale on why libertarianism and extreme anti-tax sentiment that's polluting the GOP isn't a realistic or competent way to establish a functioning government.

[TGHusker]

Here's an interesting article regarding a far right/Libertarian "Utopia" from Von Ormy, Texas...the "Freest Little City in Texas"

 

For the last few years, Von Ormy has been in near-constant turmoil over basic issues of governance: what form of municipal government to adopt, whether to tax its residents, and how to pay for services such as sewer, police, firefighters and animal control. Along the way, three City Council members were arrested for allegedly violating the Open Meetings Act, and the volunteer fire department collapsed for lack of funds. Nearly everyone in town has an opinion on who’s to blame. But it’s probably safe to say that the vision of the city’s founder, a libertarian lawyer whose family traces its roots in Von Ormy back six generations, has curdled into something that is part comedy, part tragedy.

 

...it's kind of turned into George Orwell’s Animal Farm. We’re all equal, but some of us are more equal than others. There’s nobody competent enough to lead this city and we sure as hell can’t attract anybody to come and fix us.

 

 

It's a pretty interesting cautionary tale on why libertarianism and extreme anti-tax sentiment that's polluting the GOP isn't a realistic or competent way to establish a functioning government.

I have been thinking long and hard about what philosophy that is best for 'functioning' govt. I've concluded: Moderation (which is too often called milk toast). Currently we have case studies in Kansas, Oklahoma and now in Congress that a strict conservative approach may not work in a pluralistic, complex society. We also know from experience in other countries that a strict liberal approach has its issues as well. I'm thinking (out loud here) that conservatism is a good balancing philosophy when the pendulum goes too far left (think Reagan after Carter/Nixon). Liberalism balanced out the govt after it goes too far to the right (Obama after GWB). GWB conservatism was not timed correctly - tax cuts were not needed and would not work as they did for Reagan. Politicians make the mistake of not discerning their time properly. They think it worked before so it has to work now. Well we are seeing that card blanche conservatism is the wrong medicine if applied at the wrong time. Thus we see the Republican utopia failing. We need to draw from the best principles of the left and the right and not make it exclusive. We'd have the health care issue solved if the Dems and Repubs found ways to work together on it. Red meat says repeal and replace. That angers the other side that has a vested interest. Compromise isn't weakness - it can be strength & wisdom under control. Time to elect some moderates to congress and get something done. Is there a Moderate Party of America??

[Kiyoat Husker]

Ted Cruz: "I'd love to work with the Democrats, but it will be futile and not work"

 

(Hint: having a straw man to rail against works a lot better for re-election than pissing off your base by actually compromising with the "enemy")

 

Term limits might be a solution to this problem.

[RedDenver]

 

Here's an interesting article regarding a far right/Libertarian "Utopia" from Von Ormy, Texas...the "Freest Little City in Texas"

 

For the last few years, Von Ormy has been in near-constant turmoil over basic issues of governance: what form of municipal government to adopt, whether to tax its residents, and how to pay for services such as sewer, police, firefighters and animal control. Along the way, three City Council members were arrested for allegedly violating the Open Meetings Act, and the volunteer fire department collapsed for lack of funds. Nearly everyone in town has an opinion on who’s to blame. But it’s probably safe to say that the vision of the city’s founder, a libertarian lawyer whose family traces its roots in Von Ormy back six generations, has curdled into something that is part comedy, part tragedy.

 

...it's kind of turned into George Orwell’s Animal Farm. We’re all equal, but some of us are more equal than others. There’s nobody competent enough to lead this city and we sure as hell can’t attract anybody to come and fix us.

 

 

It's a pretty interesting cautionary tale on why libertarianism and extreme anti-tax sentiment that's polluting the GOP isn't a realistic or competent way to establish a functioning government.

I have been thinking long and hard about what philosophy that is best for 'functioning' govt. I've concluded: Moderation (which is too often called milk toast). Currently we have case studies in Kansas, Oklahoma and now in Congress that a strict conservative approach may not work in a pluralistic, complex society. We also know from experience in other countries that a strict liberal approach has its issues as well. I'm thinking (out loud here) that conservatism is a good balancing philosophy when the pendulum goes too far left (think Reagan after Carter/Nixon). Liberalism balanced out the govt after it goes too far to the right (Obama after GWB). GWB conservatism was not timed correctly - tax cuts were not needed and would not work as they did for Reagan. Politicians make the mistake of not discerning their time properly. They think it worked before so it has to work now. Well we are seeing that card blanche conservatism is the wrong medicine if applied at the wrong time. Thus we see the Republican utopia failing. We need to draw from the best principles of the left and the right and not make it exclusive. We'd have the health care issue solved if the Dems and Repubs found ways to work together on it. Red meat says repeal and replace. That angers the other side that has a vested interest. Compromise isn't weakness - it can be strength & wisdom under control. Time to elect some moderates to congress and get something done. Is there a Moderate Party of America??

 

I'm thinking along similar lines. I wouldn't say "moderation" is the key but more what I'd call a hybrid approach. Under certain situations strict libertarianism may work well. Another situation may be best under a Keynesian capitalism approach. Another may be best solved by socialism, marxism, neoliberalism, etc. And many situations will probably work best with a mixture of ideologies (what I would call "moderation" when they are balanced more-or-less equally between ideologies). The trick is to find the best approach(es) for a given situation and keep in mind that things change over time, so no situation is static and changes should always be considered.

[zoogs]

Currently we have case studies in Kansas, Oklahoma and now in Congress that a strict conservative approach may not work in a pluralistic, complex society. We also know from experience in other countries that a strict liberal approach has its issues as well.

I feel like this is a vague equivalency that begs for stronger substantiation. Before we all throw in for milquetoast, what's the "strict liberalism" failure? Is it Massachusetts? California? NYC? Seattle? The 2010 Affordable Care Act?

 

I'm also curious to learn more about how tax cuts worked for Reagan. It seems like when he's brought up here there's usually some caveat about what his tax policy actually ended up being. Not to argue at all that compromise isn't weakness. But we don't have mirror images in terms of adherence to ideology in America today. To base decisions on that assumption, if it's flawed, will push the collective needle towards 'strictism' and away from compromise, if you will. For example, if compromise is equal funding and equal valuing of Planned Parenthood and religious anti-abortion ground campaigns, moderation isn't what wins out.

[TGHusker]

https://apnews.com/60ba4af9956a4bbabe4330ea76870ef9/West-Virginia-governor,-a-Democrat,-to-switch-to-Republican

 

WV Governor decides to switch from Dem to Repub. I guess Trump did a good job persuading the guy during his WH visits:

 

 

West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice announced Thursday he’s switching parties to join Republicans as President Donald Trump visited the increasingly conservative state.

Justice told about 9,000 Trump supporters at a rally in Huntington that he will be changing his registration Friday. He recently visited the White House twice with proposals on manufacturing and coal, neither he nor Trump are politicians and they both ran to get something done, he said.

“This man is a good man. He’s got a backbone. He’s got real ideas,” Justice said. “He cares about America. He cares about us in West Virginia.”

Trump said they spoke a few weeks ago about working together to open coal mines and create jobs in furniture manufacturing and other forms of manufacturing. “But Gov. Justice did something else very important tonight. He showed the country that our agenda rises above left or right,” he said.

Justice was elected in November with just 49 percent of the vote, 20 percentage points behind Trump’s total in the presidential contest in the state. Trump won 77 percent of West Virginia’s Republican primary voters in May.

The president promised throughout the campaign to resurrect the lagging coal industry that has declined amid changing energy markets, leaving many West Virginia communities devastated. The industry and many of its workers have blamed the decline mostly on former President Barack Obama and his environmental policies.

Justice’s defection leaves Democrats with just 15 governors among 50 states.

In West Virginia, his jump is another blow for Democrats in a state they once ran without opposition. U.S. Sen. Joe Manchin and state Treasurer John Perdue will be the remaining statewide elected Democrats. Manchin is up for re-election in 2018, one of 10 Democratic senators running in states Trump won, a dynamic that gives Democrats an uphill path to reclaiming a Senate majority.

Manchin said he’ll always be a West Virginia Democrat and was disappointed by Justice’s decision but said he’ll work with anyone regardless of party affiliation to benefit West Virginians.

[BigRedBuster]

 

Here's an interesting article regarding a far right/Libertarian "Utopia" from Von Ormy, Texas...the "Freest Little City in Texas"

 

For the last few years, Von Ormy has been in near-constant turmoil over basic issues of governance: what form of municipal government to adopt, whether to tax its residents, and how to pay for services such as sewer, police, firefighters and animal control. Along the way, three City Council members were arrested for allegedly violating the Open Meetings Act, and the volunteer fire department collapsed for lack of funds. Nearly everyone in town has an opinion on who’s to blame. But it’s probably safe to say that the vision of the city’s founder, a libertarian lawyer whose family traces its roots in Von Ormy back six generations, has curdled into something that is part comedy, part tragedy.

 

...it's kind of turned into George Orwell’s Animal Farm. We’re all equal, but some of us are more equal than others. There’s nobody competent enough to lead this city and we sure as hell can’t attract anybody to come and fix us.

 

 

It's a pretty interesting cautionary tale on why libertarianism and extreme anti-tax sentiment that's polluting the GOP isn't a realistic or competent way to establish a functioning government.

I have been thinking long and hard about what philosophy that is best for 'functioning' govt. I've concluded: Moderation (which is too often called milk toast). Currently we have case studies in Kansas, Oklahoma and now in Congress that a strict conservative approach may not work in a pluralistic, complex society. We also know from experience in other countries that a strict liberal approach has its issues as well. I'm thinking (out loud here) that conservatism is a good balancing philosophy when the pendulum goes too far left (think Reagan after Carter/Nixon). Liberalism balanced out the govt after it goes too far to the right (Obama after GWB). GWB conservatism was not timed correctly - tax cuts were not needed and would not work as they did for Reagan. Politicians make the mistake of not discerning their time properly. They think it worked before so it has to work now. Well we are seeing that card blanche conservatism is the wrong medicine if applied at the wrong time. Thus we see the Republican utopia failing. We need to draw from the best principles of the left and the right and not make it exclusive. We'd have the health care issue solved if the Dems and Repubs found ways to work together on it. Red meat says repeal and replace. That angers the other side that has a vested interest. Compromise isn't weakness - it can be strength & wisdom under control. Time to elect some moderates to congress and get something done. Is there a Moderate Party of America??

 

Well stated and this has been the thought process I have been trying to have since leaving the Republican Party.

 

I am not tied to either liberal or conservative views 100% on every issue. I am trying my best to look at both sides with an issue and decide what is the correct path with that particular issue at that particular time.

[Danny Bateman]

Personally I couldn't care less about Justice's switch to the GOP.

 

A governor is a dark, dark red state that Trump won by 42+ pts last year defected to his party?

 

I'd like to know what his metric for being a "good man" is. Being popular is his state? Lying about coal? Bluster about manufacturing with little to back it up? Or having a backbone for that matter.

Also:

 

 

In 2015, Justice switched from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party and announced his candidacy for Governor in the 2016 election. He defeated the Republican nominee, Bill Cole. On August 3, 2017, less than seven months after taking office, Justice publicly announced his plans to switch parties the next day and become a Republican again.^[2]

 

Knock me over with a feather.

[zoogs]

GQ: What if Mike Pence becomes President? http://www.gq.com/story/what-if-mike-pence-becomes-president

 

It may sound now like an absurd notion—the idea that Pence might have changed Trump’s ways—but plenty of Republicans harbored the same delusion. To those who’ve grown weary wishing Trump was more in lockstep with the G.O.P., Pence would be a kind of godsend, a president who would be, as the former adviser describes him, “a think-tank-talk-news-created Republican robot.”

 

“There’s a longing among a lot of Republicans to return to a kind of pre-Trump party, and I think that’s just fantasy,” says the conservative intellectual and National Review senior editor Ramesh Ponnuru. “A post-Trump party, however we get there, is not going to be the same as a pre-Trump party. We’ve learned things about the Republican Party that even Republicans are going to have a hard time unlearning.”

 

[zoogs]

Domestic policy: https://theintercept.com/2017/08/09/trumps-opioid-commission-had-some-stunningly-good-recommendations-he-ignored-them-for-80s-drug-war-nostalgia/

 

 

 

While Trump’s abstinence and supply-side approach would do nothing for that already-addicted population, his commission put forward some shockingly reasonable suggestions. The best that can be hoped for, perhaps, is that Trump won’t get around to reading the report, and will just ask that it be implemented.

[zoogs]

I've done a handful of criticizing Jeff Flake (in a specific context, which is that he's fighting to reclaim the old GOP, not arguing for its disintegration). Here's a reason why what he did was nonetheless brave:

 

 

He knew stuff like this would happen. So do the other Republican politicians who realized long ago that prudent silence is wise.

[Danny Bateman]

New poll exploring various GOP voter attitudes on Trump.

 

Methodology:

 

 

The survey interviewed a sample of 1,325 Americans from June 5 through 20. Respondents were recruited from the Qualtrics online panel who had previously reported identifying with or leaning toward one of the two major parties. We focus on the 650 respondents who identify with or lean toward the Republican Party. The sample has been weighted to match the population in terms of sex, age, race and education.

 

After a series of initial questions, respondents were asked whether Trump won the popular vote, whether millions of illegal immigrants voted, and how often voter fraud occurs. These questions evoke arguments frequently made by Trump and others about the integrity of the 2016 election.

Then the survey asked two questions about postponing the 2020 election.

• If Donald Trump were to say that the 2020 presidential election should be postponed until the country can make sure that only eligible American citizens can vote, would you support or oppose postponing the election?

• What if both Donald Trump and Republicans in Congress were to say that the 2020 presidential election should be postponed until the country can make sure that only eligible American citizens can vote? Would you support or oppose postponing the election?

 

These findings are only one poll, but they do not speak kindly of the GOP base.

 

 

Roughly half of Republicans believe Trump won the popular vote — and would support postponing the 2020 election.

Nearly half of Republicans (47 percent) believe that Trump won the popular vote, which is similar to this finding. Larger fractions believe that millions of illegal immigrants voted (68 percent) and that voter fraud happens somewhat or very often (73 percent). Again, this is similar to previous polls.

Moreover, 52 percent said that they would support postponing the 2020 election, and 56 percent said they would do so if both Trump and Republicans in Congress were behind this.