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Immigration Ban

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zoogs    6,367

Senator Chris Murphy from CT wrote an op ed today. It's worth reading for a lot of reasons. Here, he lays out the case that this has made America less safe. I wholeheartedly agree.

 

This is why todays proposal is likely to get Americans killed.

 

ISIS, the most dangerous of a global array of radical Islamic terrorist groups, is in retreat. (...)

 

But ISIS has a second purpose to take part in an imagined global struggle of civilizations between Christians and Muslims. President Obama and President Bush before him knew the danger of stoking talk of war between east and west. Obama knew how important this kind of talk was to ISISs recruitment and expansion, and he went out of his way to tamp it down.

 

Trump has now handed ISIS a path to rebirth. They can and will use his announcement today as confirmation that America is at war with Muslims, especially those Muslims living in desperate circumstances. Their recruitment bulletin boards will light up with new material. Their entreaties to would-be lone wolf attackers in America will have new energy and purpose.

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zoogs    6,367

SIV holders should be exempt from this 'ban', IMO.

In what way is this a "ban" in quotation marks?

 

If I've been imprecise, please correct me.

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GM_Tood    1,409

Senator Chris Murphy from CT wrote an op ed today. It's worth reading for a lot of reasons. Here, he lays out the case that this has made America less safe. I wholeheartedly agree.

 

This is why todays proposal is likely to get Americans killed.

 

ISIS, the most dangerous of a global array of radical Islamic terrorist groups, is in retreat. (...)

 

But ISIS has a second purpose to take part in an imagined global struggle of civilizations between Christians and Muslims. President Obama and President Bush before him knew the danger of stoking talk of war between east and west. Obama knew how important this kind of talk was to ISISs recruitment and expansion, and he went out of his way to tamp it down.

 

Trump has now handed ISIS a path to rebirth. They can and will use his announcement today as confirmation that America is at war with Muslims, especially those Muslims living in desperate circumstances. Their recruitment bulletin boards will light up with new material. Their entreaties to would-be lone wolf attackers in America will have new energy and purpose.

 

No, you worded it correctly. As long as folks do their own homework on the Executive Order as it pertains to Temp ban vs. Perma ban.

 

As far as getting Americans killed in your quote above, I am not really sure if this does any more harm than the past 'x' years of boots on the ground/bombing/drone strikes.

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knapplc    19,300

No, you worded it correctly. As long as folks do their own homework on the Executive Order as it pertains to Temp ban vs. Perma ban.

What homework should we be doing?

 

In the face of no resistance to this order, why wouldn't he extend it? If we don't protest, if it isn't overturned, why wouldn't he make it permanent, or last as long as whatever arbitrary date he chooses?

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zoogs    6,367

I will completely agree that our usage of drones and our military engagements in the Middle East are also activities that compromise our own security.

 

And I agree with knapp -- we are defined by what we will tolerate our governments to do.

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knapplc    19,300

As far as I can tell, AR Husker Fan's quote in my sig are his own words. And it is rapidly becoming my favorite quote of the last several years.

The failure to condemn is necessarily the act to condone.

 

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dudeguyy    3,488

Anybody else getting tired of how warm and fuzzy all of this makes David freakin' Duke?! That alone should make people question the inherent good in these policies.

 

This is dangerous territory with a would-be authoritarian like Trump. If Murphy is indeed correct and this leads to more attacks from those who wish to harm us, he could easily try to make a play to seize more power under the guise of bringing safety and security.

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zoogs    6,367

I think that would serve a true authoritarian's interests quite well. They care not so much for the lives of their own people or for their duties to the law than for keeping their clutches on power.

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Bigred_inSD    677

"The bible says you two gays can't marry". " as a good Christian I can't support abortion". Same people "Yes Trump! Thanks for stopping those evil middle easter refugees! They are bad"

 

 

Jesus was a dirty hippy middle eastern refugee. Just come out and admit you are an uniformed xenophobe

 

"There's (random number of guns) in the country, if there was an issue you'd know about it. Guess how many Muslims there are in the world you dumb (multiple expletives)

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Comfortably Numb    5,061

As far as I can tell, AR Husker Fan's quote in my sig are his own words. And it is rapidly becoming my favorite quote of the last several years.

 

 

The failure to condemn is necessarily the act to condone.

 

I guess it depends what level of condemnation a person accepts as being sufficient to not condone something.

 

There are many levels of condemnation ranging from silently opposed to armed insurrection in the streets. As an example, I am opposed to many of Trump's stated plans,as I was to many of Obama's but, I don't make all of that opposition known here, or in some cases anywhere. In your opinion, does that mean, because I don't decry something on HB, that I condone it? Between politicians and our government, if that statement is to be taken literally, a person would have to spend an inordinate amount of time condemning things. So, I wonder what level of condemnation is required to satisfy the statement and if it's the same level in all matters.

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Lil' Red    308

Ban even applies to those with dual citizenship with an allied country:

 

Those who hold dual nationality in the seven countries banned from entering the U.S. by President Trump will also be barred from entering the country, the Wall Street Journal reported Saturday.

 

The Journal said it got an advance look at a statement by the State Department that the refugee ban extends beyond just citizens of Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Libya and Yemen, but also to people who may originally come from those countries but have a passport from another nation or dual nationality.

Link

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Comfortably Numb    5,061

Anybody else getting tired of how warm and fuzzy all of this makes David freakin' Duke?! That alone should make people question the inherent good in these policies.

 

This is dangerous territory with a would-be authoritarian like Trump. If Murphy is indeed correct and this leads to more attacks from those who wish to harm us, he could easily try to make a play to seize more power under the guise of bringing safety and security.

What bothers me the most is that Trump hasn't/doesn't unequivocally denounce this asshat. He may not be able to control what the dipsh#t says but he sure could issue very strong denouncements and distance himself from him. This is one good case of where the failure to condemn is an act of condoning. I believe Trump may have issued one very weak statement in this regard but not nearly enough IMO. It makes him fair game for the criticism he receives as pertains to race and bigotry issues and may very well indicate more.

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zoogs    6,367

http://www.vox.com/2017/1/28/14426586/iranian-researcher-barred-us

 

Samira Asgari had spent months planning her move from Switzerland to the United States. The 30-year-old Iranian woman had secured a post-doctoral fellowship at the Harvard-affiliated Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston. She’d won a prestigious award for her research in genomics that would even pay her salary at her new, American lab. “I was really happy, and it felt like everything was going right,” she said.

Guess what happens next.

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zoogs    6,367

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/president-donald-trump-s-immigration-ban-felt-in-south-carolina/article_f9c09f00-e59b-11e6-b47d-273fc4f17562.html

 

For recent Clemson University graduate Nazanin Zinouri, a trip to see family has turned into a nightmare.

 

The Greenville resident, who graduated last year with a PhD in industrial engineering and won the university's Janine Anthony Bowen Graduate Fellow award, flew to Tehran to visit her family when she heard about an immigration ban signed by President Donald Trump on Friday. The order bars individuals from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen and Somalia from entering the United States for 90 days.

Guess what happens next.

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knapplc    19,300

How hard must your heart be not to be sickened by this?

 

There's a foreign impact on this decision, but there's also a domestic impact. So many people are claiming that this is OK despite knowing in their hearts it absolutely is not. That part of them that says, "THIS IS WRONG!" is being tamped down, shoved into a corner.

 

It takes a toll on a person. And that, in turn, takes a toll on this country. Collateral damage.

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ZRod    2,852

Absolutely, and utterly disgusting. This is what you voted for as a Trump supporter. You can not hide from this. This is one of the many disgusting things he said he would do, and now has done. Those of you who support this ban, and are still left on this board, what good does this accomplish? Please tell me.

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Bigred_inSD    677

I ordered my child a puzzle that features all 7 of the countries on the banned list. I'm going to make sure my child understands this situation for when he learns about one of the worst administrations in the US when he gets in to school

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Comfortably Numb    5,061

I feel like I've been flip flopping a lot lately but I've changed my mind again. This is not good and likely does extremely little to make us safer. I guess when I first considered it I only envisioned terrorists being banned entry and not what appears to be happening now. They need to end this ban and simply review the vetting procedures and make sure the procedures are being followed. It is unacceptable that innocent people like those above are being denied entry. I hate being wrong this often. I guess it may happen a few more times as I'm still not as far down the road with Trump hatred as many of you but I think I'm getting there fairly quickly. I still want to believe he may accomplish some good things but it's getting more difficult by the minute.

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zoogs    6,367

Indeed, JJ/ED. It's so easy when we reduce countries of people to images or conceptions of terrorists. That would come as a surprise to the actual people of these countries.

 

I really like what knapp said about costs. Policies like these are only possible when we deny people their humanity. Yet the exercise of treating people as not people is one that transforms us. :(

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funhusker    751

I feel like I've been flip flopping a lot lately but I've changed my mind again. This is not good and likely does extremely little to make us safer. I guess when I first considered it I only envisioned terrorists being banned entry and not what appears to be happening now. They need to end this ban and simply review the vetting procedures and make sure the procedures are being followed. It is unacceptable that innocent people like those above are being denied entry. I hate being wrong this often. I guess it may happen a few more times as I'm still not as far down the road with Trump hatred as many of you but I think I'm getting there fairly quickly. I still want to believe he may accomplish some good things but it's getting more difficult by the minute.

This administration is quickly turning into a "non-partisan" issue. Trainwreck aside, I've been telling myself the one bright spot of all of this is rational people will stand up to the extremes of both sides and bring sanity to our politics.

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NM11046    2,042

They got a stay for those currently arrived or those in route - won't impact much more right now. They also asked for a list of those that are being detained, as that's not been allowed as of yet and they have lost folks, some of which as late as 9:30 were being told they had to board planes back to their country of origin.

 

Edit - WaPo update attached (haven't read this article yet myself)

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NM11046    2,042

Also, for those of you so inclined, I'd highly recommend following the ACLU on FB/Twitter etc. I made a donation to them a few months ago and they also do a nice magazine that is mailed out with overviews and etc. I never realized how broad their focus was. What an amazing organization.

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dudeguyy    3,488

“I hope Trump enjoys losing. He’s going to lose so much we’re going to get sick and tired of his losing,” ACLU National Political Director Faiz Shakir told Yahoo News shortly after the decision was announced.

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NM11046    2,042

 

“I hope Trump enjoys losing. He’s going to lose so much we’re going to get sick and tired of his losing,” ACLU National Political Director Faiz Shakir told Yahoo News shortly after the decision was announced.

 

I can not WAIT for twitter at 3am when he wakes up and sees all this.

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NM11046    2,042

You know what gave me great hope? When the International Refugee Assistance Project put out a call for help today they got 3000 volunteer lawyers that reached out in 4 hours. There are more good people than bad.

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dudeguyy    3,488

You know what gave me great hope? When the International Refugee Assistance Project put out a call for help today they got 3000 volunteer lawyers that reached out in 4 hours. There are more good people than bad.

 

We have the power to affect great change, even from home, with the use of social media. I mean, I'd rather be out there protesting myself, but it's hard to find a hub for such activities in Central Nebraska. But alas, the capabilities we have at our fingertips are just limitless compared to previous generations.

 

Couldn't write this story better if you tried:

 

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zoogs    6,367

You know what gave me great hope? When the International Refugee Assistance Project put out a call for help today they got 3000 volunteer lawyers that reached out in 4 hours. There are more good people than bad.

http://www.ajc.com/news/national/airbnb-offers-free-rooms-those-affected-immigration-ban/s3OGt2FZjCpOlaZWBENnWM/

 

 

“Not allowing countries or refugees into America is not right, and we must stand with those who are affected,” Brian Chesky posted Saturday on Facebook. “Airbnb is providing free housing to refugees and anyone else who needs it in the event they are denied the ability to board a US-bound flight and are not in your city/country of residence.”

Great to see the world stepping up. I think that's an important takeaway, really -- we cannot merely rely on governments. This has always been true. No matter who is in charge, there's a step-to-it-ness that we must demand of ourselves, as humans on this earth.

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NM11046    2,042

 

You know what gave me great hope? When the International Refugee Assistance Project put out a call for help today they got 3000 volunteer lawyers that reached out in 4 hours. There are more good people than bad.

 

We have the power to affect great change, even from home, with the use of social media. I mean, I'd rather be out there protesting myself, but it's hard to find a hub for such activities in Central Nebraska. But alas, the capabilities we have at our fingertips are just limitless compared to previous generations.

 

Couldn't write this story better if you tried:

 

 

Yes we do!

 

If you haven't done so already ... the link attached makes it real easy to identify, write/call/email your rep to tell them what is important to you. https://www.womensmarch.com Doesn't do a whole lot here in my very, very blue state - but would be more impactful there in Central NE.

 

We are having gathering at bars here about once a week to do postcards to ours with our topics that are crucial to us. Might be a good week for immigration ... and certainly a good week for a drink or three.

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zoogs    6,367

Hey, look who's on board: Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell.

 

This is simultaneously encouraging and depressing. Ryan fairly leaped to back Trump.

 

But look all it takes for people of any party to see things straight: pressure from the people they represent.

 

“This is ridiculous,” said Rep. Charlie Dent (R-Pa.). “I guess I understand what his intention is, but unfortunately the order appears to have been rushed through without full consideration. You know, there are many, many nuances of immigration policy that can be life or death for many innocent, vulnerable people around the world.”

 

Dent, who represents a large Syrian community in the Allentown area, said he was contacted Saturday by a constituent whose family members were turned away early in the morning at Philadelphia International Airport.

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Moiraine    5,954

My friend here is lucky enough not to be from one of the "bad" countries but I still want to post this. I told her I was going to post a photo of her and explained why and she was okay with it. The time I really wanted to post it was a year or so ago when we were having a discussion here on Muslims and a couple people were saying Muslims were inherently evil just by being Muslims. If people actually met a few like I have maybe that would help. Or they could just be un-stupid enough to realize that people around the world are basically alike. Every place has good ones and bad ones.

 

EeJrRB6.jpg

 

 

She's doing her dissertation on animal temperature regulation which will save U.S. stock yards $. Let's just ban everyone like her. Clearly she has no interest assimilating into U.S. culture.

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dudeguyy    3,488

Dulles, VA customs officials apparently disobeying court order and detaining folks:

 

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