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knapplc    19,300

Here's Paul Ryan's statement.  The play here for Trump/the Republicans could be two-fold:

 

1)  Another slap in the face for Obama by repealing yet another of his accomplishments.

 

2)  The Republicans craft a law that saves the Dreamers - as hinted at by Ryan's statement - in time to be good PR for the 2018 mid-terms.  The GOP needs all the good press it can get after the ACA fiasco.

 

 

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dudeguyy    3,488

It IS cowardice in the sense that Trump is just towing the company line, in a total flip-flop from his own previous position.

Trump in 2012:

 

 

Trump in 2017:

 

 

 

Trump, today:

Sends out a man he's thoroughly embarrassed and emasculated publicly to make this announcement for him. 

He lied to those kids, and now he's going to pass the buck to Congress and tell them to fix the problem for him. Maybe he'll try to leverage some wall-funding out of the deal. But do you expect him to show "great heart" and really dig in to the legislative details and learn the laws and try to protect these kids? 

 

I don't. He doesn't give a crap if these kids get deported or where they end up. This is just checking another box to him in his quest to undo more Obama stuff.

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dudeguyy    3,488

I sense I may be out on a limb alone here in feeling REALLY passionately about this being a stupid, morally bankrupt decision. That's OK. It's a pet issue for me.

 

But it just pains me that this is an accurate description of our president right now:

 

 

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14 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Here's Paul Ryan's statement.  The play here for Trump/the Republicans could be two-fold:

 

1)  Another slap in the face for Obama by repealing yet another of his accomplishments.

 

2)  The Republicans craft a law that saves the Dreamers - as hinted at by Ryan's statement - in time to be good PR for the 2018 mid-terms.  The GOP needs all the good press it can get after the ACA fiasco.

 

 

 

Your point number 2 is really interesting. It's kind of a best of both worlds scenario for the GOP.

 

Congress gets a win for 2018 by saving DACA and by 2020 this likely won't even be a problem for Trump as it's just another drop in the bucket of craziness that is going on. If the Arpiao pardon didn't drop Trump's approvals this won't do much either and it makes the nutters happy.

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knapplc    19,300

Trump's approval rating (or, his "disapproval" rating) is about bottomed out.  Short of murdering children on live TV, I don't think there's anything he could do at this point to lose the people that are still supporting him and attending his rallies. 

 

I don't think any decision he's making anymore has anything to do with how it'll look to anyone. He's not going to craft policy with anyone but his hardcore base in mind from now on.

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QMany    3,004

Obama holds little back in a rare statement: 

 

 

Quote

Let’s be clear: the action taken today isn’t required legally. It’s a political decision, and a moral question.

 

Ultimately, this is about basic decency.

 

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NM11046    2,042
3 hours ago, dudeguyy said:

I sense I may be out on a limb alone here in feeling REALLY passionately about this being a stupid, morally bankrupt decision. That's OK. It's a pet issue for me.

 

But it just pains me that this is an accurate description of our president right now:

 

 

I don't doubt this for one minute.  He has no clue - he'll come out within a week of congress debating it and turn directions.  

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NM11046    2,042

Egos.  These thin skinned, small penis'd, GOP leaders can't handle the fact that something done by an african american man, that made sense and actually showed empathy and laid out a solution to a "problem" made logical sense.  

 

  • So we're sending American children back to countries they've never known.
  • We're blocking immigration by building walls and turning others with non-white skin away.
  • We have a man in the top office in the land supporting white supremecy.  
  • We are allowing mentally unfit to purchase guns.
  • We are taking away the right to vote from citizens.
  • We are forgiving elected officials who break the law via presidential pardon.

Theres more, I know it - just too mentally exhausted.

 

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dudeguyy    3,488
1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

Can someone please explain something to me???

What needs "fixed" that can't be "fixed" without threatening the future of these kids?

 

 

 

If it was a less erratic, more cerebral president and a more competent Congress, I would suggest this is some brinksmanship. Perhaps they think they could bait Congress into  action on finally legislating immigration reform by ripping the safety net of DACA out from underneath them. The GOP LOVES to campaign on how bad it is, particularly in hardcore conservative districts where anti-immigrant sentiment will play well. By removing the safety net, Congress is forced to either act or look like the bad guys.

 

However, it's Trump, and it's this Congress. He's trying to pass the buck, and Congress is trying to pass it right back:

 

 

Rubio, who ran like a madman away from his Gang of 8 days during the primary to try to appeal to his base, is asking this White House for guidance on immigration reform. This after his President making it clear he was simply punting the issue to Congress. Nobody wants to be left holding the bag.

I think Trump just wants to try to use this to get money for the Wall™️.

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Moiraine    5,954
8 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

 

If it was a less erratic, more cerebral president and a more competent Congress, I would suggest this is some brinksmanship. Perhaps they think they could bait Congress into  action on finally legislating immigration reform by ripping the safety net of DACA out from underneath them. The GOP LOVES to campaign on how bad it is, particularly in hardcore conservative districts where anti-immigrant sentiment will play well. By removing the safety net, Congress is forced to either act or look like the bad guys.

 

However, it's Trump, and it's this Congress. He's trying to pass the buck, and Congress is trying to pass it right back:

 

 

Rubio, who ran like a madman away from his Gang of 8 days during the primary to try to appeal to his base, is asking this White House for guidance on immigration reform. This after his President making it clear he was simply punting the issue to Congress. Nobody wants to be left holding the bag.

I think Trump just wants to try to use this to get money for the Wall™️.

 

 

 

You don't need the president's signature if you work with Democrats on this issue, you moron.

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dudeguyy    3,488
7 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

 

You don't need the president's signature if you work with Democrats on this issue, you moron.


:lol:

 

But it's Rubio. A guy who likes to project himself as mature, bipartisan & above the political fray but would never actually take actions to prove as much in practice.  He explicitly ran away from his now immigration bill to try to win conservative votes.

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TonyStalloni    607

Trump has put the ball back in Congress' court where it belongs.  They have 6 months to create something satisfactory to as many as possible.  Those of you living in democratic states need to urge your representatives to work with republicans and craft a bill that keeps these kids here.  It's time to reject the fringe 5% on the left and right and say this bill is too important to not work together.  I will urge my congressmen to get the ball rolling here.  

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dudeguyy    3,488
1 hour ago, TonyStalloni said:

Trump has put the ball back in Congress' court where it belongs.  They have 6 months to create something satisfactory to as many as possible.  Those of you living in democratic states need to urge your representatives to work with republicans and craft a bill that keeps these kids here.  It's time to reject the fringe 5% on the left and right and say this bill is too important to not work together.  I will urge my congressmen to get the ball rolling here.  

 

I agree with this. It's sad that it takes Trump making an awful mistake he didn't fully understand like ending DACA for immigration reform to be considered, but here we are. It needs to be addressed.

 

I just wish I shared your optimism. I don't. Obama asked for this mythical bill for a LONG time. Never came.

 

 

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TonyStalloni    607
7 hours ago, dudeguyy said:

 

I agree with this. It's sad that it takes Trump making an awful mistake he didn't fully understand like ending DACA for immigration reform to be considered, but here we are. It needs to be addressed.

 

I just wish I shared your optimism. I don't. Obama asked for this mythical bill for a LONG time. Never came.

 

 

I know it appears harsh and cold but if this is what it takes to get the two parties to take a step towards the middle and work together then I hope they will take the opportunity and do so.  Those of us on both sides need to push this.

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knapplc    19,300

It doesn't "appear" harsh and cold, it IS harsh and cold. 

 

And stop with this "both parties" thing. It's not "both parties" causing this problem, it's the Republicans, period.  The Republicans, as shown in that tweet, have had zero interest in immigration reform, zero interest in helping these people, and seem far more focused on figuring out how to hoodwink the American people into paying for Trump's wall than in working with Democrats.

 

Republicans had a golden opportunity to work with Democrats on healthcare reform.  They decided they'd rather renege on a campaign promise and fail to repeal Obamacare than work in a bipartisan fashion to ensure Americans had proper, affordable healthcare.  If they're not willing to do that for White Americans, what makes anyone think they're going to magically come around and work with Democrats to create a new immigration policy that benefits non-Whites? 

 

We'll have Trump's wall before we have a replacement for DACA, and it'll be entirely because the GOP doesn't care about a huge chunk of Americans. 

 

"Both parties."  Pfffffffffffff!

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BigRedBuster    8,064
9 hours ago, TonyStalloni said:

Trump has put the ball back in Congress' court where it belongs.  They have 6 months to create something satisfactory to as many as possible.  Those of you living in democratic states need to urge your representatives to work with republicans and craft a bill that keeps these kids here.  It's time to reject the fringe 5% on the left and right and say this bill is too important to not work together.  I will urge my congressmen to get the ball rolling here.  

 

 

So.....to get congress to act, it took Trump drastically disrupting people's lives and causing undue stress?  This is just idiotic and clearly done by people who have no clue what they are doing and have their priorities completely twisted.

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sho    104
Quote

Senior Congressional Republicans are willing to work with Democrats to keep a program allowing young people who came to America illegally with their parents to stay in the U.S. But Democrats will in return have to give President Donald Trump funding for his border wall.  

 

 

And now, with Trump throwing this back to Congress to fix, if it doesn't pass it's because of the obstructionist Democrats.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/republicans-tell-democrats-well-give-you-daca-if-you-fund-trumps-border-wall-659488

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Moiraine    5,954

When will the dumb stop??

 

The wall is one of the stupidest ideas we've ever had from a politician. And the rest of the GOP is jumping on board with it now. What?? There's no GOP now except the Trump version. That's who they are now.

 

Illegal immigration has been steadily decreasing for YEARS!

 

I guarantee you these a**holes are going to call the bill the DACA bill, it'll fund the wall by cutting spending on non-stupid things, and when Democrats vote against it because it's awful, they'll say Democrats got rid of DACA.

 

I really hope there is a Hell.

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knapplc    19,300

The wall is just a distraction. The GOP needs to flip the page - several pages, actually - from the Obamacare repeal debacle.  They convinced their base that this NEEDS to be done, it isn't going to get done, so the wall stuff flips the script. 

 

 

 

Saw this overnight. Some of the best advice on immigration I've seen in a while.

 

SuVajhE.jpg

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knapplc    19,300

My takeaway from this is, Trump is trying to split both parties in two.  Neither the Republicans nor Democrats are smart enough not to deal with Trump. He's playing each against the other, creating chaos the way he's always done within his business.

 

The best thing Ryan, McConnell, Schumer & Pelosi could do is tell Trump to eff off, build a coalition supermajority, and enact legislation without Trump's taint on it. 

 

All this is doing is perpetuating the idea that Trump is actually fit for office.  He isn't.  He's using them, they're all trying to use him, but it's everyday Americans who are going to suffer from this unholy mess.

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QMany    3,004
1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

In other words. Someone blew their wad early. 

 

 

 

I don't think they blew their wad, their statement didn't say the deal was final. I think Schumer and Pelosi were smart here, getting out in front of Trump's habitual lies to memorialize their meeting. "We agreed to enshrine the protections of DACA into law quickly, and to workout a package of border security, excluding the wall, that's acceptable to both sides." 

 

DJpi0SVXUAAv2_r.jpg:large

 

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zoogs    6,367

Yeah, they're not trying to be accurate here. This is politics. They say things to achieve a desired effect. Trump is in a corner now because it turns out he's either not a very good negotiator, or doesn't particularly care for or understand "his" side.

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knapplc    19,300

This is just disgusting, and racist in the most basic terms.  In the Civil War, Northern regiments were recruited from people immediately signing when they arrived off immigration boats from Europe. 

 

Today, Trump is threatening to deport our recruits. 

 

 

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dudeguyy    3,488
13 hours ago, knapplc said:

This is just disgusting, and racist in the most basic terms.  In the Civil War, Northern regiments were recruited from people immediately signing when they arrived off immigration boats from Europe. 

 

Today, Trump is threatening to deport our recruits. 

 

 

 

There you go with your -ists and your -isms Knapp. 

 

This is why Trump won. 

 

:sarcasm :dunno

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zoogs    6,367

The White House is lined with liars who are out to hurt people. We knew this was going to happen if Trump got elected. We chose to be OK with that anyway.

 

 

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dudeguyy    3,488

Interesting. Not sure that we didn't already know this, but...

It looks like the Trump true believers are the only ones who overwhelmingly support ending DACA. The non-Trump GOP is much more evenly split but favors keeping it.

 

 

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BigRedBuster    8,064

Wait....didn't they say they just needed 60-90 days so they can fully review the immigration process and make it better?
 

 

 

Surely that whole act wasn't a lie.  

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Frott Scost    2,291
On 6/4/2017 at 7:23 PM, Rike Miley said:

Lets be real, this wasnt a 120 day ban. 120 days would have turned into 240 days. 240 days would have turned into 480 days and so on. This was a lifetime ban on muslims. If nothing was accomplished in 120 days with the vetting process, Trump had no intentions on making it better. He just wants to keep them out completely.

 

As I was saying...

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dudeguyy    3,488

Leaked memos show Jeff Sessions's DOJ aims to undermine due process for immigrants

Oh look. The Jeff Sessions DOJ attempting to deny people of their civil rights. I'm blown away.

 

If anyone questioned why Sessions just buried his head and slogged through Trump publicly shaming him not so long ago in front of the entire country, it's because he' splaying the long game. If he can put up with it until Trump's attention span shifts onto the latest drama du jour, he can continue to implement his draconian, heartless, backwards policies to shape the American justice system. Namely, the drag it forcefully backwards.

 

The Trump immigration doctrine, as much as it is enforced by immigration raids & travel bans, is built entirely on fear. He wants people from outside our shores to fear America, for the fear to spread, and for them to stop coming here. Because it is what his base wants, and because he's a dotty old racist.

 

Sessions implementing "performance standards" for immigration judges to try and squeeze them into not giving immigrants a fair trial should creep everyone out.


In order to fight back against the Trump/Sessions agenda, we have to stand up and loudly proclaim that it is wrong and people shouldn't be afraid. We will get our country straightened out eventually. We're not all xenophobic nationalists who fear and outright despise "the other." Because if we don't, Sessions & Trump will continue waving their fearmongering stick, and the rest of the world will see us as we really are: Unperturbed by the Sessions/Trump doctrine.

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dudeguyy    3,488

In case anyone thought they were only going after the bad ones.

 

This is disgusting. Pure and simple.

 

 

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commando    1,626
3 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

In case anyone thought they were only going after the bad ones.

 

This is disgusting. Pure and simple.

 

 

  i feel so much safer knowing we can kick an evil  disabled 10 year old around

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dudeguyy    3,488

And here she is, being taken from her hospital bed by ICE.

 

Trump's immigration policies sicken me.

 

 

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