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Denying science in the classroom


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#401 knapplc

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:10 PM

Moiraine, I don't know if I knew you were Christian before this thread. It's not something you discuss much.
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#402 NM11046

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:10 PM

 

 

I'd say the percentage of atheists that behave more as nasty, anti-theists is higher than the percentage of self-identified Christians who act high and mighty towards anyone not in the club. But, you're dealing with a much smaller sample size.

 

Well when we start burning christians at the stake, or torturing them until they renounce their beliefs, and we do it for 1,000 years or so, then the scales will be closer to even.

 

And Landlord, to equate atheist derision of said christian beliefs to the actual horrors and atrocities that christians have done to us through the ages...

 

 

 

I'm not talking about the history of mankind. I'm talking about America in 2017, and I'm also talking percentages, not total values.

 

 

 

NM - same bit about ratios vs total numbers, but then again, maybe I spend too much time on the internet and associate with far more atheist friends than bigoted Christian ones.

 

Aye - now you say bigoted .. I can't say mine are that necessarily but the "high and mighty if you're not in the club" christians yes for sure.  

 

I try (believe me it's been a challenge of late) to give most people an initial pass on the bigot label - it tends to be that they're very sheltered and just unable to understand or empathize with anyone that is different than them.  But when there's a lack of desire to understand or try and get to know others then I'm happy to anoint them as such.  


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#403 Moiraine

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:12 PM

Moiraine, I don't know if I knew you were Christian before this thread. It's not something you discuss much.



I've said it quite a few times in other topics but I don't talk about Christianity much.

That said I'd never try to convert someone before I even asked them if they're Christian. Not that I try to convert people anyway. People know where to buy a Bible.
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#404 El Diaco

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:15 PM

Everything referencing a nastiness comparison will be anecdotal. I've seen plenty of self-described atheists act like complete a$$hole$ online - more than I could count. I've also seen where many of them get called out on it, and when they do, they claim some justification for their anger/hatred because of past abuse from someone involved in the church. I couldn't fathom if those accounts are true, but I could understand if some of them were. It's hard to be charitable toward someone or something that you perceive hurt you.

I've also seen plenty of self-described Christians cloak themselves in "high-and-mightiness," both in person and online. It's ugly, too, and no less justified when deployed against someone who doesn't share your faith than atheists who blame all Christians for their hurt they say they suffered. The worst is when family members do it. You hate to see that, but then my family members hate that I'm not Christian, so I suppose that disappointment runs both ways. :D

Agreed.


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#405 NM11046

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:19 PM

 

 

I'd say the percentage of atheists that behave more as nasty, anti-theists is higher than the percentage of self-identified Christians who act high and mighty towards anyone not in the club. But, you're dealing with a much smaller sample size.

That's an interesting perception LOMS.  My experience is quite different - I have far more people in my life who push their christianity on me or whomever they are around - the atheists tend to be pretty darn quiet. (that's usually the first clue)

 

Hmmm, that's interesting. I'm going to have to agree with LOMS on this one. Not saying your experience couldn't be different but my experience mirrors what LOMS said.  But, I also really make an effort to avoid Christians that act that way. For some reason, even though I am Christian (or maybe because of it) I find that behavior much more detestable in a Christian than I do in an atheist. And I will admit I know extremely few admitted atheists outside of internet forums so my sample size of Christians is very large compared to atheists.

 

Wonder if our experiences are a bit biased as we fit into the group that we say is less offensive?  Just a thought as I read through our back and forth.  Of course I think atheists are more reasonable and less in your face (they're my people!)

 

I will also say, that unless in a discussion like this I don't bring up religion or my lack of belief in normal christianity.  I find that my christian friends are more likely to be proactive about bringing it up and trying to urge others to get more committed to the church and its beliefs. 

 

Also, I think as a general rule a christian defines/describes him/herself by their religion - it's part of their identity.  For instance, "I am a white, male, christian from the midwest who loves the huskers." vs what I might say: "I am a white, female, professional from the midwest who loves the huskers."


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#406 El Diaco

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:25 PM

Moiraine, I don't know if I knew you were Christian before this thread. It's not something you discuss much.

 

 

Uh oh, Knapp's got another one to go to work on...

giphy.gif

 

:P


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#407 Landlord of Memorial Stadium

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:27 PM

That might be one of my least understood posts in my decade on Huskerboard.


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#408 El Diaco

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:31 PM

 

 

 

I'd say the percentage of atheists that behave more as nasty, anti-theists is higher than the percentage of self-identified Christians who act high and mighty towards anyone not in the club. But, you're dealing with a much smaller sample size.

That's an interesting perception LOMS.  My experience is quite different - I have far more people in my life who push their christianity on me or whomever they are around - the atheists tend to be pretty darn quiet. (that's usually the first clue)

 

Hmmm, that's interesting. I'm going to have to agree with LOMS on this one. Not saying your experience couldn't be different but my experience mirrors what LOMS said.  But, I also really make an effort to avoid Christians that act that way. For some reason, even though I am Christian (or maybe because of it) I find that behavior much more detestable in a Christian than I do in an atheist. And I will admit I know extremely few admitted atheists outside of internet forums so my sample size of Christians is very large compared to atheists.

 

Wonder if our experiences are a bit biased as we fit into the group that we say is less offensive?  Just a thought as I read through our back and forth.  Of course I think atheists are more reasonable and less in your face (they're my people!)

 

 

 

I contemplated this very thing before posting what I did because I thought might be the case but, being honest, I don't believe that is influencing me.

 

When Christians start behaving that way, I head the other direction. When atheists do it, for some odd reason I'm drawn to explore it (or argue with them) further. But I will say I definitely have run into a lot more butthole Christians than I have atheists but the sample sizes are no where close to each other.


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#409 El Diaco

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:32 PM

That might be one of my least understood posts in my decade on Huskerboard.

 

 

Why are you lashing out with such anger? :lol:


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#410 knapplc

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:53 PM

I'd say the percentage of atheists that behave more as nasty, anti-theists is higher than the percentage of self-identified Christians who act high and mighty towards anyone not in the club. But, you're dealing with a much smaller sample size.


You were saying something about how Christians aren't nasty?

Moiraine, I don't know if I knew you were Christian before this thread. It's not something you discuss much.



Uh oh, Knapp's got another one to go to work on...
giphy.gif

:P


What the hell, JJ?
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#411 dudeguyy

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 10:01 PM

 

I'd say the percentage of atheists that behave more as nasty, anti-theists is higher than the percentage of self-identified Christians who act high and mighty towards anyone not in the club. But, you're dealing with a much smaller sample size.


You were saying something about how Christians aren't nasty?

 

Moiraine, I don't know if I knew you were Christian before this thread. It's not something you discuss much.



Uh oh, Knapp's got another one to go to work on...
giphy.gif

:P

 


What the hell, JJ?

 

 

 

El D is not your typical Christian.

 

That guy is one sick puppy.


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#412 El Diaco

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 11:39 PM

I'd say the percentage of atheists that behave more as nasty, anti-theists is higher than the percentage of self-identified Christians who act high and mighty towards anyone not in the club. But, you're dealing with a much smaller sample size.

You were saying something about how Christians aren't nasty?

Moiraine, I don't know if I knew you were Christian before this thread. It's not something you discuss much.

Uh oh, Knapp's got another one to go to work on...giphy.gif :P
What the hell, JJ?

C'mon, it was just a joke. You didn't think it was funny?

Like dudeguyy said, I'm a sick puppy.
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#413 Landlord of Memorial Stadium

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:31 AM

calm down knapp.


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#414 knapplc

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 07:46 AM

Ah, tone policing. Nice one, Landlord.


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#415 TGHusker

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 08:44 AM

Everything referencing a nastiness comparison will be anecdotal. I've seen plenty of self-described atheists act like complete a$$hole$ online - more than I could count. I've also seen where many of them get called out on it, and when they do, they claim some justification for their anger/hatred because of past abuse from someone involved in the church. I couldn't fathom if those accounts are true, but I could understand if some of them were. It's hard to be charitable toward someone or something that you perceive hurt you.

I've also seen plenty of self-described Christians cloak themselves in "high-and-mightiness," both in person and online. It's ugly, too, and no less justified when deployed against someone who doesn't share your faith than atheists who blame all Christians for their hurt they say they suffered. The worst is when family members do it. You hate to see that, but then my family members hate that I'm not Christian, so I suppose that disappointment runs both ways. :D

Good discussion everyone. I've enjoyed reading all of the comments.  To Knapp's point here, I think we (including me) can become 'high minded' and display an arrogant attitude when we don't consider the other person.  While some people are just arrogant, being puffed up by their 'knowledge' others  are well meaning in their pushing their faith or lack of - believing they are trying to help the other person.  But their 'knowledge' isn't tempered with wisdom and humility.  Humility is the primary attitude Christians are to display - if we are to 'win' others over, it should be via our lifestyle of service, compassion and humility and not pontificating.  Yes, there is time to 'defend the faith' and to give a sound, reasoned response to others who may not agree with you but that also is to be done in the spirit of humility and not out of judgement or condescending. 

 

This webpage has a listing of verses on humility

 

https://dailyverses.net/humility


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#416 1995 Redux

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 08:55 AM

Landlord of Memorial Stadium, on 23 Feb 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:
calm down knapp.

knapplc, on 23 Feb 2017 - 07:46 AM, said:
Ah, tone policing. Nice one, Landlord.


Can you guys just make out and get it over with already? You'll burn in hell forever afterwards but at least this sexual tension will be over. :sarcasm
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#417 knapplc

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 09:00 AM

Don't you mean make out again


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#418 El Diaco

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 09:09 AM

Don't you mean make out again?


Ahhhh, now it ALL makes sense.

Knapp is a bouncer at Fat Toad.
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#419 Enhance89

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 09:38 AM

Yes, there is time to 'defend the faith' and to give a sound, reasoned response to others who may not agree with you but that also is to be done in the spirit of humility and not out of judgement or condescending. 

Well said, and it gets to a core issue whether you're Christian, Jewish, agnostic or atheist: it is human nature to be hypocritical and self-centered, viewing the transgressions committed against oneself in a different light than those you commit unto others.  Christians have, historically, had more power and time to commit atrocities and be over-bearing in the name of God.

 

As Ben Harper once said, "if I ain't causin' no harm, it shouldn't bother you."  Granted, he was talking about marijuana, but the idea still holds true.  Christians/atheists should only defend their beliefs from a position of humility, and should avoid seeking out opportunities to press their opinions in an unwarranted manner.


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#420 Landlord of Memorial Stadium

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 10:05 AM

Ah, tone policing. Nice one, Landlord.

 

 

There's no tone policing. You either legitimately went after JJ for a joke, or you sarcastically did. My post is either serious or sarcastic depending on your intention :P


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#421 Bigred_inSD

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 10:19 AM

A house committee did vote to kill the alternative science bill yesterday. So there is that.
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#422 NM11046

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 11:05 AM

Ironically ... today (via CNN) the Pope talked atheism vs religious folks: http://www.cnn.com/2...atheists-again/
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#423 zoogs

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 11:15 AM

Religion isn't a thing that can be blamed for human actions.  Religion is a human construct.  It is no more to blame for bad actions than sport, nationalism, politics, love, money, or anything else humans create to explain their existence. 
 
Religion is not inherently bad.  Like a spoon or a pillow, it can be misused for bad things.  But by its nature it is not bad. 
 
Blaming religion for anything is a copout.  It's humans who are to blame.  Every time.


This. I think this is a view we can all agree on. Humans are reliably fallible in all of our pursuits.
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#424 1995 Redux

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 12:00 PM

Don't you mean make out again

 

I'm now imagining guy in a jean jacket making out with Tom Osborne.

 

Thanks for that...


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#425 El Diaco

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 07:08 PM

Ironically ... today (via CNN) the Pope talked atheism vs religious folks: http://www.cnn.com/2...atheists-again/


Wow! Seriously.
Everybody involved in the discussion in this thread needs to read that link.
I would also encourage anyone who has a problem with the Catholic church to read it.
I thought I was straying pretty far from the teachings of the religion with my thoughts on everyone, not just Christians and Catholics, having a shot at salvation but apparently the Pope seems to agree with my thoughts. I guess I've never heard a Pope (or any other official in the church) say those things.

It's better to be an atheist than a bad Christian. I agree but he actually said it.
Pretty cool guy.

Make sure to scroll through the pictures on that article. They contain some of his quotes that I think many will find surprising.
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#426 dudeguyy

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 07:31 PM

 

Ironically ... today (via CNN) the Pope talked atheism vs religious folks: http://www.cnn.com/2...atheists-again/


Wow! Seriously.
Everybody involved in the discussion in this thread needs to read that link.
I would also encourage anyone who has a problem with the Catholic church to read it.
I thought I was straying pretty far from the teachings of the religion with my thoughts on everyone, not just Christians and Catholics, having a shot at salvation but apparently the Pope seems to agree with my thoughts. I guess I've never heard a Pope (or any other official in the church) say those things.

It's better to be an atheist than a bad Christian. I agree but he actually said it.
Pretty cool guy.

Make sure to scroll through the pictures on that article. They contain some of his quotes that I think many will find surprising.

 

 

I love the new pope. He's an unapologetic agitator of traditional doctrine. He's trying to drag the Church into the 21st century.

 

He's got to drive Catholic traditionalists absolutely bonkers though. I read an article not too long ago that there's apparently a sect of them in Rome that do not like him and have expressed desire in resisting and/or trying to battle back his influence.

 

And of course, surprise surprise... Bannon is very popular with that particular sect. He likes them too.

 

Oh hell, here's the article. 

 

https://twitter.com/glennthrush/status/829100286312644608


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Posted 23 February 2017 - 07:55 PM

There's also a group (I think its' Italian mob related) that has been rumored to be a big risk to him - like a potential death threat sort of risk.  Especially when he started cleaning house in the financial arena of the vatican.  A friend of mine was traveling in Ireland last year and was at a B&B with some journalists who's sole job was to stay on top of the threat within the church.  Pretty interesting stories from their tea conversations.


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#428 Landlord of Memorial Stadium

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 09:18 PM

 

Ironically ... today (via CNN) the Pope talked atheism vs religious folks: http://www.cnn.com/2...atheists-again/


Wow! Seriously.
Everybody involved in the discussion in this thread needs to read that link.
I would also encourage anyone who has a problem with the Catholic church to read it.
I thought I was straying pretty far from the teachings of the religion with my thoughts on everyone, not just Christians and Catholics, having a shot at salvation but apparently the Pope seems to agree with my thoughts. I guess I've never heard a Pope (or any other official in the church) say those things.

It's better to be an atheist than a bad Christian. I agree but he actually said it.
Pretty cool guy.

Make sure to scroll through the pictures on that article. They contain some of his quotes that I think many will find surprising.

 

 

 

 

Those Franciscans generally turn out to be really great Catholics. Pope Francis is a really enlightened guy.


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#429 Rike Miley

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 11:35 PM

I do like Pope Francis a lot!
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#430 Making Chimichangas

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 08:56 PM

 

 

I'd say the percentage of atheists that behave more as nasty, anti-theists is higher than the percentage of self-identified Christians who act high and mighty towards anyone not in the club. But, you're dealing with a much smaller sample size.

 

Well when we start burning christians at the stake, or torturing them until they renounce their beliefs, and we do it for 1,000 years or so, then the scales will be closer to even.

 

And Landlord, to equate atheist derision of said christian beliefs to the actual horrors and atrocities that christians have done to us through the ages...

 

 Can you show us all where he actually did this?

 

Re-read the part you quoted.

 

:)


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#431 Moiraine

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 08:59 PM


 


 


I'd say the percentage of atheists that behave more as nasty, anti-theists is higher than the percentage of self-identified Christians who act high and mighty towards anyone not in the club. But, you're dealing with a much smaller sample size.

 
Well when we start burning christians at the stake, or torturing them until they renounce their beliefs, and we do it for 1,000 years or so, then the scales will be closer to even.
 
And Landlord, to equate atheist derision of said christian beliefs to the actual horrors and atrocities that christians have done to us through the ages...
 
 Can you show us all where he actually did this?
 
Re-read the part you quoted.
 
:)


He didn't do that in the quote. He's talking about modern day Christian/Athiest behavior.

He's not saying athiest acting judgemental are as bad as historically murderous Christians.
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#432 Making Chimichangas

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 09:44 PM

 

 

 

 

I'd say the percentage of atheists that behave more as nasty, anti-theists is higher than the percentage of self-identified Christians who act high and mighty towards anyone not in the club. But, you're dealing with a much smaller sample size.

 
Well when we start burning christians at the stake, or torturing them until they renounce their beliefs, and we do it for 1,000 years or so, then the scales will be closer to even.
 
And Landlord, to equate atheist derision of said christian beliefs to the actual horrors and atrocities that christians have done to us through the ages...
 
 Can you show us all where he actually did this?
 
Re-read the part you quoted.
 
:)


He didn't do that in the quote. He's talking about modern day Christian/Athiest behavior.

He's not saying athiest acting judgemental are as bad as historically murderous Christians.

 

He didn't say it, but the implication was clear.  Was that what he intended?  Doubtful, but that's the implication I gathered he was trying to get across.

 

Point is: atheists, while (admittedly) being nasty and sometimes verbally vicious towards Christians, absolutely pales in comparison to how they have treated us.  We use words.  Christians use swords, fire, water, and other torture methods.  And before you say, "Well, that was a long time ago!"  Is it?  Because I know modern day Christians who think being an atheist should be against the law.  I know Christians who say killing of atheists should be legal.  And no Moraine, they are not kidding.

 

In point of fact, the new King James Bible has a couple of passages that says killing non-believers is acceptable.  And some Christians accept this as truth and acceptable.


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#433 El Diaco

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 11:08 PM

I'd say the percentage of atheists that behave more as nasty, anti-theists is higher than the percentage of self-identified Christians who act high and mighty towards anyone not in the club. But, you're dealing with a much smaller sample size.

 
Well when we start burning christians at the stake, or torturing them until they renounce their beliefs, and we do it for 1,000 years or so, then the scales will be closer to even.
 
And Landlord, to equate atheist derision of said christian beliefs to the actual horrors and atrocities that christians have done to us through the ages...
 Can you show us all where he actually did this?
Re-read the part you quoted.
 
:)
Landlord didn't equate those two things, you did. He was very clear with his comparison; nasty atheists to high and mighty Christians. Now I suppose you could take off and run with high and mighty acting Christians committed all those atrocities through the ages but it was pretty clear that is not what he was talking about and it was an unfair characterization of the point he was making. Im sure Landlord wouldn't even begin to deny the many terrible things that have been done in the name of Christianity.
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#434 The Dude

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 05:56 PM

I've never been a Christian but I can't imagine why even being a good one would be better than being atheist. Unless you want to run for public office in the United States, I suppose.

Better by far, I suspect, to be a Pastafarian.

Or at least a Dudeist.
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What we need is a new center to our politics - one that defends secularism, science & free speech against their enemies on the Left & Right.

#435 knapplc

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 06:23 PM

Is "Dudeist" pronounced 'DOOD-ist' or "doo-DAY-ist?" 

 

As in, "Judaism" is "joo-DAY-ism."


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#436 The Dude

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 06:36 PM

Obviously you're not a golfer.
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What we need is a new center to our politics - one that defends secularism, science & free speech against their enemies on the Left & Right.

#437 El Diaco

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 08:52 PM

I've never been a Christian but I can't imagine why even being a good one would be better than being atheist. Unless you want to run for public office in the United States, I suppose.
Better by far, I suspect, to be a Pastafarian.
Or at least a Dudeist.


Well, it goes without saying that being a Dudeist is unquestionably the best but we're talking about things attainable by the common person.
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#438 knapplc

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 10:44 AM

I used to be a golfer but I was banned after an unfortunate incident with some mums.

 

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