Trump and his love for Andrew Jackson

[Bigred_inSD]

You know the guy who tried to exterminate the native Americans..

 

Also, travel ban 2.0 just got blocked. Giddy the F up friends.

[NUance]

Yeah, but did you ever read about the Battle of New Orleans? Andrew Jackson pretty much saved America on that day. So there's that.

[Enhance]

Probably shouldn't idolize men who were incredible racists.

[BigRedBuster]

Yeah, but did you ever read about the Battle of New Orleans? Andrew Jackson pretty much saved America on that day. So there's that.

They even wrote a song about it.

[NUance]

Probably shouldn't idolize men who were incredible racists.

 

Probably should read up on the topic before we label people as incredible racists.

[NUinID]

Andrew Jackson was a man of his times, it is very iffy to impose 2017 values on a man that lived 200 years ago.

[Landlord]

Probably shouldn't idolize men who were incredible racists.

 

 

 

People will likely say the same thing about you and materialism someday.

[TGHusker]

Actually I had just finished reading the book American Lion about Andrew Jackson last June/July when Trump was nominated. It is a great book on

Jackson regardless of what you thought about his politics - pro or con. Well written. But when I finished the book, I

immediately thought of Donald Trump. I didn't think he would win the presidency at that time, but I saw striking

similarities - good and bad. So why does Trump 'love' Jackson? - birds of a feather.

 

Going back to the original post - the book address both sides of the Trail of Tears issue which occurred under Van Buren (who was basically the 3rd term of Jackson)- but originated out of Jackson's policies. The book addresses the gross injustice done to the tribes at various levels and from various sources. It also tries to present, some what weakly I might add, Jackson's point of view that he was doing it for the tribes long term good - that there would be on going skirmishes, conflicts with settlers and those assigned to protect settlers if the tribes were to remain in the Florida and SE USA region. So he felt the Indians would be 'safer' with their own land protected from settlers in Indian territory which today is most of Oklahoma.

Well we know that didn't last long and Jackson should have foreseen the day when those same conflicts would move to a different territory and time. He didn't address the

core issues. He just kicked the can down the road in a very tragic way.

[Enhance]

 

Probably shouldn't idolize men who were incredible racists.

 

Probably should read up on the topic before we label people as incredible racists.

Hyperbole though it may be, he was a white nationalist, slave owner and was responsible for the deaths of thousands of Native Americans.

[Landlord]

 

 

Probably shouldn't idolize men who were incredible racists.

 

Probably should read up on the topic before we label people as incredible racists.

Hyperbole though it may be, he was a white nationalist, slave owner and was responsible for the deaths of thousands of Native Americans.

 

 

 

And he also lived in a cultural context where those things were not considered to be as heinous or evil as they are today. Had you lived then, you would not have been terribly different.

[Enhance]

 

 

 

Probably shouldn't idolize men who were incredible racists.

 

Probably should read up on the topic before we label people as incredible racists.

Hyperbole though it may be, he was a white nationalist, slave owner and was responsible for the deaths of thousands of Native Americans.

 

 

And he also lived in a cultural context where those things were not considered to be as heinous or evil as they are today. Had you lived then, you would not have been terribly different.

We are all a victim to the times we live in but that does not excuse our actions, it merely explains them, and a significant difference exists between the two.

[Landlord]

We are all a victim to the times we live in but that does not excuse our actions, it merely explains them, and a significant difference exists between the two.

 

 

I absolutely agree, but I don't think it's proper to condemn people from the past or from vastly different contexts for not having made it to the level of moral rectitude that I live with, because I didn't gain that on my own terms.

[Enhance]

 

We are all a victim to the times we live in but that does not excuse our actions, it merely explains them, and a significant difference exists between the two.

 

I absolutely agree, but I don't think it's proper to condemn people from the past or from vastly different contexts for not having made it to the level of moral rectitude that I live with, because I didn't gain that on my own terms.

But if it's improper to condemn for immoralities, how does it become proper to honor their clout? In my opinion, that borders on a modern day white nationalist mentality. (I'm not accusing you of being a white nationalist, to be clear).

 

To better explain my point: for centuries, we've had people, particularly white men in power, honoring the past accomplishments of presidents and politicians while keenly glossing over some of their less respectable qualities and actions. It's an important dichotomy.

 

I think it's the responsibility of modern citizens to understand the faults of their predecessors. I wouldn't call it "condemning" anyone - I'd call it understanding the big picture.

[Enhance]

 

Probably shouldn't idolize men who were incredible racists.

 

People will likely say the same thing about you and materialism someday.

Also, because I didn't respond to this earlier, I think it's critical to point out that this is an unfair analogy in my opinion. Modern day materialism is incomparable to racism and/or white nationalism.

[TGHusker]

 

 

We are all a victim to the times we live in but that does not excuse our actions, it merely explains them, and a significant difference exists between the two.

 

I absolutely agree, but I don't think it's proper to condemn people from the past or from vastly different contexts for not having made it to the level of moral rectitude that I live with, because I didn't gain that on my own terms.

But if it's improper to condemn for immoralities, how does it become proper to honor their clout? In my opinion, that borders on a modern day white nationalist mentality. (I'm not accusing you of being a white nationalist, to be clear).

 

To better explain my point: for centuries, we've had people, particularly white men in power, honoring the past accomplishments of presidents and politicians while keenly glossing over some of their less respectable qualities and actions. It's an important dichotomy.

 

I think it's the responsibility of modern citizens to understand the faults of their predecessors. I wouldn't call it "condemning" anyone - I'd call it understanding the big picture.

 

Regarding the bold. All of our heros have flaws and that includes the presidents we respect the most. That is one thing I like about the Bible. It lays it all out on the table - we see the 'hero's of faith' with all of their flaws. Moses - murdered someone acting out of anger towards the Egyptian who was punishing the Jews, David - all kinds of issues - adultery, plotting to and killing his best friend (who was 'killed in battle' - a set up) and yet David repented, Jeremiah's weaknesses, Peter with foot in mouth disease, anger, temper, Paul with physical issues, temperament, etc. There are many other examples. We see these men are just like us - full of flaws but also gifted with redeeming qualities that inspire us to be better people.

That is why it is important not to get caught up in idolizing someone or drinking to much "kool aid" . Learn from their 'issues' and grow from their example of good. I think FDR and Ronald Reagan were the greatest presidents in the last 100 years. While they were wildly different politically, maybe due to their respective time (Reagan started out as a FDR Democrat), they both had obvious flaws & weren't able to accomplish all that they desire, but they both had some very admirable qualities worth gleaming from.