Jump to content
NM11046

DOJ Initial Russia Hearings

Recommended Posts

TGHusker    1,335

And last night Trump went on a tweet blast to ask why Hillary's Russian connections aren't being investigated. I've given up all hope that he will ever act presidential - outside of his one moment - the SOTU speech. If you have nothing to hide, there is no reason for Trump to dredge up old accusations against Hillary. Let the justice dept determine if she broke the law (yea I know - it is his justice dept) - he doesn't have to get involved. It isn't his role as president - it is the justice dept's role.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StPaulHusker    5,080

I would assume the Clinton's connections to Russia aren't being investigated because SHE ISN'T THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NM11046    2,042

 

What in the world can be worth Nunes hanging himself over this administration - what do they have on him that is making him throw away a relatively decent career?

 

Nunes was part of the transition team...

 

I understand that. I guess what I don't understand is how bad things are that he must be tied to that he's willing to go down in flames for this. Money isn't enough I don't think. It's either personal (videos of him doing nasty stuff w/nasty people) or he's been a part of killing someone. Honestly - these are smart guys. Its easy to do damage control if it's money - admit it, and fade away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ZRod    2,852

 

 

What in the world can be worth Nunes hanging himself over this administration - what do they have on him that is making him throw away a relatively decent career?

 

Nunes was part of the transition team...

I understand that. I guess what I don't understand is how bad things are that he must be tied to that he's willing to go down in flames for this. Money isn't enough I don't think. It's either personal (videos of him doing nasty stuff w/nasty people) or he's been a part of killing someone. Honestly - these are smart guys. Its easy to do damage control if it's money - admit it, and fade away.

Seriously??? Come on!

 

This isn't House of Cards. He didn't kill anybody, and not everyone has a sex tape. He's just your run of the mill Washington idiot that thinks he can score big by brown nosing the president.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NM11046    2,042

Agree to disagree. Nobody with a brain, R or D would tie themselves to this administration, and to Russia in particular just to be a brown noser.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ZRod    2,852

Agree to disagree. Nobody with a brain, R or D would tie themselves to this administration, and to Russia in particular just to be a brown noser.

Congressmen have a brain?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zoogs    6,367

Some people will always be drawn to power. The Trump administration encourages this: loyalty and fealty will be rewarded, opponents will be ruthlessly punished. If this sounds like "not a democracy" to you, you'd be right. At least, it's clearly the vision they are working to realize.

 

The number of people whose political careers would already be over had Trump not won in November. But he did.

 

And he may yet succeed in this contest of wills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
funhusker    751

No, she didn't.

 

At least not in that video clip. In the clip she admits the US spied on Russian connections, or had informants. This isn't news. The "confession" is only that during the collection of Russian information there were apparently suspicious ties to Trump. She and her colleagues wanted to protect the information as well as how they gained it to keep the Trump administration from getting rid of it.

 

Did the Obama administration "spy on Trump". Possible. But that wasn't an accidental confession of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moiraine    5,954

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having intelligence on Trump and his people if it was received due to them talking to Russians we were spying on.

 

 

It's crazy how most of the GOP acts as if it's wrong in and of itself. No. It's only wrong if they were specifically spying on those people for political reasons and didn't get the intel due to spying on their foreign contacts for different purposes.

 

Also, the chick never said the White House was doing any of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BigRedBuster    8,064

I'm confused.

 

So, the White House told Nunes that the White House was being "incidental" surveillance.

 

Doesn't that seem odd to other people?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zoogs    6,367

Breaking: Member of Trump Transition Team Not Totally Impartial Leaader of Trump Investigation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moiraine    5,954

I'm confused.

 

So, the White House told Nunes that the White House was being "incidental" surveillance.

 

Doesn't that seem odd to other people?

It's not odd with Trump as president. It's exactly what I assumed the minute I heard Nunes went to the White House. This is what happened in my opinion:

 

Trump watched a guy on Fox News or in a Breitbart article say he was wiretapped. He believed it.

 

He talked about it as loud as he could and ordered everyone to find the evidence for it (everything involving Trump always has confirmation bias - if he wants something to have happened he digs around until one sh**ty source "confirms" it).

 

But no one came up with anything. Everyone said he was wrong.

 

Nunes is the head of the House intelligence committee and was part of Trump's transition team, and since Trump desparately wanted to be believed, because in his crazy mind it really happened, he or his people came up with this idea to give Nunes their "intel." Nunes then immediately told the press about his "intel," and when Trump was asked if he felt vindicated, he replied "kind of."

 

If Trump had been at all surprised at how everything went down with Nunes, is he the type to just say "kind of" and not go on a Twitter rant or talk for days about his victory?

 

 

A little side info - I read that Nunes made $50k a year before being elected. I know there are good people out there who won't be bought off but I think someone who isn't rich is easier to buy off when you have Trump-level money.

 

He needs to recuse himself. I dunno how these committees work. Does the GOP have to vote him off?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BigRedBuster    8,064

My point is, all the intelligence officials don't have this information but some White House staff does? What are the chances that this is Bannon?

Also, "incidental" surveillance is not illegal or against any ethics that Trump thinks Obama did. In fact, this flies in the face of Trump's claim that Obama had his building "wire tapped".

 

This is interesting though.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zoogs    6,367

Right, from what I understand it's kind of the "here's the story we want out there" stuff. Tbh, it's hard to want to keep up with all of this sometimes. Nunes' behavior has certainly been...odd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dudeguyy    3,488

My point is, all the intelligence officials don't have this information but some White House staff does? What are the chances that this is Bannon?

 

Also, "incidental" surveillance is not illegal or against any ethics that Trump thinks Obama did. In fact, this flies in the face of Trump's claim that Obama had his building "wire tapped".

 

This is interesting though.

 

 

I'll tell you exactly what this is.

 

This is them trying to sweep the story about the WH feeding information directly to Nunes, in secret, under the rug. After the fact, they are trying to make it seem like they're some open, transparent body trying to help this investigation. In reality, they tried to slip to info that helped them to the Chairman of the House Intel Committee covertly so that he could use it to host a press conference and try to defend them.

 

This is how the Trump administration operates. They will break rules and norms and disregard ethics at will... until they get caught. And then they try to do damage control. Only when they're forced to.

 

This is a lame attempt to appear as a helpful, neutral arbiter only happening because they got busted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a couple of really good comments from the reddit thread about this that helped me make sense of it.

 

 

This story has more meaning now with regards to Cohen-Watnick: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-national-security-mcmaster-overrule-236065

This is huge.

President Donald Trump has overruled a decision by his national security adviser, Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster, to sideline a key intelligence operative who fell out of favor with some at the Central Intelligence Agency, two sources told POLITICO.

On Friday, McMaster told the National Security Council’s senior director for intelligence programs, Ezra Cohen-Watnick, that he would be moved to another position in the organization.

The conversation followed weeks of pressure from career officials at the CIA who had expressed reservations about the 30-year-old intelligence operative and pushed for his ouster.

But Cohen-Watnick appealed McMaster’s decision to two influential allies with whom he had forged a relationship while working on Trump’s transition team — White House advisers Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner. They brought the matter to Trump on Sunday, and the president agreed that Cohen-Watnick should remain as the NSC’s intelligence director, according to two people with knowledge of the episode.

Trump is directly implicated in this. Trump -> Cohen-Watnick -> Nunes

Trump's directly involved in obstruction of a congressional investigation into Trump.

Great secondary source on obstruction: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34303.pdf

“The crime of obstruction of [such] proceedings has three essential elements. First, there must be a proceeding pending before a department or agency of the United States. Second, the defendant must be aware of the pending proceeding. Third, the defendant must have intentionally endeavored corruptly to influence, obstruct or impede the pending proceeding.”

1) Obviously there are investigative proceedings taking place in Congress.

2) Despite Trump saying they are a hoax, he is well aware of the investigations. See Twitter.

3) This is the trick. All you have to do is tie Trump to Cohen-Watnick. Shouldn't be too difficult based on what is already public info.

Put Ellis and Cohen-Watnick under oath. Find out where they got the documents from and who told them to leak it to Nunes.

Also, Nunes is going to have to answer some FBI questions now.

Kushner and Bannon are also involved in this. They are the two that carried out Don's orders in intervening and saving Cohen-Watnick from McMaster's dismissal. This is NOT a decision that would be taken without the President's authorization. McMaster just got the job. They took heat for going against him so fast.

Edit: Don't forget Nunes' panic when Manu Raju asked him if the White House asked him to shut down Tuesday's Sally Yates open hearing: https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/846750833534537728

 

===============================

 

After Flynn was ousted, his #2, Ezra Cohen-Watnick, was told by Flynn's replacement (McMaster) that he would be re-located in the department. But Cohen-Watnick complained about being moved to Kushner and Bannon, who then got Trump to over-ride McMaster's decision to move Cohen-Watnick, and said he had to stay in his position as intelligence director.

So.

Flynn is fired. Flynn's replacement is going to get rid of Flynn's #2. #2 complains to Kushner/Bannon. Kushner/Bannon tell Trump not to let McMaster move #2. Trump obliges. And now it comes out that this #2 is the one who leaked to Nunes and got him to f#*k up the House Intelligence Commitee. So there now exists a chain where in it's not impossible to believe that Trump was giving orders to Nunes to obstruct the Russia investigation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dudeguyy    3,488

 

Let's not gloss over who these aides were, either:

 

  • Ezra Cohen-Watnick, the senior director for intelligence at the National Security Council....Mr. Cohen-Watnick is a former Defense Intelligence Agency official who was originally brought to the White House by Michael T. Flynn, the former national security adviser.

 

  • Michael Ellis, a lawyer who works on national security issues at the White House Counsel’s Office and formerly worked on the staff of the House Intelligence Committee.

 

 

So, someone who was brought in by Flynn, who got fired for lying about Russia, and Nunes' OWN FORMER EMPLOYEE who just took a job at the White House a few weeks ago.

 

Nunes is an embarrassment.

 

Live look at investigation:

 

giphy.gif

 

Edit: Whistle beat me to the punch. The story about the White House is simply the reaction to this bombshell. They're trying to make it seem like this is normal -- essentially saying "Oops, they know we gave the info to Nunes. Better pretend we want to give it to everyone now."

 

This is not normal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dudeguyy    3,488

 

Here's a couple of really good comments from the reddit thread about this that helped me make sense of it.

 

 

This story has more meaning now with regards to Cohen-Watnick: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-national-security-mcmaster-overrule-236065

This is huge.

President Donald Trump has overruled a decision by his national security adviser, Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster, to sideline a key intelligence operative who fell out of favor with some at the Central Intelligence Agency, two sources told POLITICO.

On Friday, McMaster told the National Security Council’s senior director for intelligence programs, Ezra Cohen-Watnick, that he would be moved to another position in the organization.

The conversation followed weeks of pressure from career officials at the CIA who had expressed reservations about the 30-year-old intelligence operative and pushed for his ouster.

But Cohen-Watnick appealed McMaster’s decision to two influential allies with whom he had forged a relationship while working on Trump’s transition team — White House advisers Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner. They brought the matter to Trump on Sunday, and the president agreed that Cohen-Watnick should remain as the NSC’s intelligence director, according to two people with knowledge of the episode.

Trump is directly implicated in this. Trump -> Cohen-Watnick -> Nunes

Trump's directly involved in obstruction of a congressional investigation into Trump.

Great secondary source on obstruction: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34303.pdf

“The crime of obstruction of [such] proceedings has three essential elements. First, there must be a proceeding pending before a department or agency of the United States. Second, the defendant must be aware of the pending proceeding. Third, the defendant must have intentionally endeavored corruptly to influence, obstruct or impede the pending proceeding.”

1) Obviously there are investigative proceedings taking place in Congress.

2) Despite Trump saying they are a hoax, he is well aware of the investigations. See Twitter.

3) This is the trick. All you have to do is tie Trump to Cohen-Watnick. Shouldn't be too difficult based on what is already public info.

Put Ellis and Cohen-Watnick under oath. Find out where they got the documents from and who told them to leak it to Nunes.

Also, Nunes is going to have to answer some FBI questions now.

Kushner and Bannon are also involved in this. They are the two that carried out Don's orders in intervening and saving Cohen-Watnick from McMaster's dismissal. This is NOT a decision that would be taken without the President's authorization. McMaster just got the job. They took heat for going against him so fast.

Edit: Don't forget Nunes' panic when Manu Raju asked him if the White House asked him to shut down Tuesday's Sally Yates open hearing: https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/846750833534537728

 

===============================

 

After Flynn was ousted, his #2, Ezra Cohen-Watnick, was told by Flynn's replacement (McMaster) that he would be re-located in the department. But Cohen-Watnick complained about being moved to Kushner and Bannon, who then got Trump to over-ride McMaster's decision to move Cohen-Watnick, and said he had to stay in his position as intelligence director.

So.

Flynn is fired. Flynn's replacement is going to get rid of Flynn's #2. #2 complains to Kushner/Bannon. Kushner/Bannon tell Trump not to let McMaster move #2. Trump obliges. And now it comes out that this #2 is the one who leaked to Nunes and got him to f#*k up the House Intelligence Commitee. So there now exists a chain where in it's not impossible to believe that Trump was giving orders to Nunes to obstruct the Russia investigation.

 

 

giphy.gif

 

(That comparison will never get old.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dudeguyy    3,488

Ahhh, yes. That's who I go to for my political hot takes. Rob Schneider. Deuce Bigalow. "You can do eet!" guy.

 

That is kind of humorous, though. As Moiraine said, no reason it can't be both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mrandyk    526

Maybe put this content somewhere else where facts and reason aren't sought. Tweet it at Trump or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NM11046    2,042

Kinda blows my theory that he had already flipped.

 

But more interesting to me is that his lawyer has shopped around his immunity offer and nobody has accepted it. Tells me that perhaps the dirt we have is pretty solid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zoogs    6,367

By all means, let's make this about "ability to reason". The evidence could not be clearer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moiraine    5,954

Kinda blows my theory that he had already flipped.

 

But more interesting to me is that his lawyer has shopped around his immunity offer and nobody has accepted it. Tells me that perhaps the dirt we have is pretty solid.

 

Or maybe they don't believe he has anything good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BigRedBuster    8,064

If he has shopped it around and they haven't accepted.

 

There's a chance they have enough on him that he REALLY needs immunity to save his own ass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dudeguyy    3,488

 

You can't make this stuff up.

 

I'm not a big reality TV guy, but reality itself is incredibly compelling right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moiraine    5,954

Strange comment here.

 

"Gen. Flynn certainly has a story to tell, and he very much wants to tell it, should the circumstances permit. ... No reasonable person, who has the benefit of advice from counsel, would submit to questioning in such a highly politicized, witch-hunt environment without assurances against unfair prosecution," Robert Kelner, Flynn's lawyer, said in a statement late Thursday.

Witch-hunt implies things like unfairness and grasping at straws when there's nothing there. Yet at the same time he supposedly has stuff to give them. It's not a witch-hunt when there is more than enough evidence to investigate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dewiz    1,593

Wrong.

 

It's both.

 

But keep wearing your blindfold and thinking none of this matters.

Coming from those who are grasping at some Russian conspiracy for how many weeks now with zero concrete evidence.

 

But by all means continue.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Wrong.

 

It's both.

 

But keep wearing your blindfold and thinking none of this matters.

Coming from those who are grasping at some Russian conspiracy for how many weeks now with zero concrete evidence.

 

But by all means continue.....

 

 

Paul Manafort...fired over his ties to Russia

 

Michael Flynn...fired over ties to Russia and "lying" to Mike Pence. Oh and now he wants immunity in exchange for testimony.

 

Countless other Trump bots being investigated for ties to Russia, corruption, etc...

 

And we're the ones "grasping at straws"?

 

:LOLtartar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×