Danny Bateman Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Yeah I think you are right. That would be great, too, because the counsel to which Mueller would be appointed would then not be under Trump's purview. He'd be untouchable at that point. So it's a no-win scenario that would be a PR nightmare. In other words, Trump will probably do it and then brag about it on Twitter. 1 Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Let Trump try to fire Mueller - he'll have Nixon written across his orange forehead in a flash. His ending will be the same - perhaps worse as - he won't have a Ford to pardon him from his serious crimes. Nixon had won his re-election in a landslide and still had considerable support wtin the party. The USA was coming out of the Vietnam mess and Ford felt the country didn't need the trauma of a ex-president in jail. Trump has no such loyalty or voter appeal. If Pence survives this, he will want to salvage his political future and pardoning Trump would not help. Of course if Pence survives this and becomes President after Trump is impeached or resigns, I can just about guaranty the 2020 election will be all Dem. I'm honestly not sure. Pence strikes me as a political grifter as well. I honestly can't tell if he'd be willing to take the massive backlash if he pardoned Trump in order to try to build a bridge to his voters for 2020. But I think he might. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Let Trump try to fire Mueller - he'll have Nixon written across his orange forehead in a flash. His ending will be the same - perhaps worse as - he won't have a Ford to pardon him from his serious crimes. Nixon had won his re-election in a landslide and still had considerable support wtin the party. The USA was coming out of the Vietnam mess and Ford felt the country didn't need the trauma of a ex-president in jail. Trump has no such loyalty or voter appeal. If Pence survives this, he will want to salvage his political future and pardoning Trump would not help. Of course if Pence survives this and becomes President after Trump is impeached or resigns, I can just about guaranty the 2020 election will be all Dem. I'm honestly not sure. Pence strikes me as a political grifter as well. I honestly can't tell if he'd be willing to take the massive backlash if he pardoned Trump in order to try to build a bridge to his voters for 2020. But I think he might. Maybe if he thinks the voters have short enough memories and unfortunately too many do. But if the Congress keeps being a no show, if Trump gets the boot - I think we will have a reversal in Congress and the WH and Pence won't have a chance at winning. He may calculate that the only way he can overcome the impeachment of an unpopular president is to join the band wagon and not pardon him and show that he is above the partisan action of a pardon. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/Companies/exxon-russia-fine-tillerson/2017/07/20/id/802792/ Isn't this interesting. Exxon fined $2m for RUSSIAN sanction violations under Tillerson. quote: The U.S. Treasury Department has fined ExxonMobil Corp. $2 million for “egregious” violations of sanctions against Russia when now-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson was chief executive. Exxon violated Ukraine-related sanctions by signing eight legal documents related to oil and gas projects in Russia with Igor Sechin, head of Rosneft OAO, who is on Treasury’s list of sanctioned Russian nationals. The violations occurred from about May 14-23, 2014, while Tillerson led the company. Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control found that Exxon “did not voluntarily self-disclose the violations,” which “constitute an egregious case,” according to the statement. U.S. and European nations imposed sanctions to punish Vladimir Putin’s regime for its actions in Ukraine. Among those targeted was Rosneft’s Sechin. Measures from President Barack Obama’s administration included asset freezes and bans on travel to the U.S. Russia is Exxon’s biggest oil exploration province worldwide. Link to comment
Red Five Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 He's definitely not hiding anything 2 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Theyre talking about real estate transactions in Palm Beach several years ago, Sekulow said. In our view, this is far outside the scope of a legitimate investigation. Ya. If we find out that Trump is owned by Russia, it has no bearing whatsoever . . . Link to comment
deedsker Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 He's definitely not hiding anything https://twitter.com/ashleyrparker/status/888205676325076993 Yep, he might just pardon everyone he can and create the greatest outrage against democracy known to our country. Putin must be enjoying our show. Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I want to know how much Trump is paying these lawyers. I'm no legal mind, but even I understand their making a ridiculously flimsy argument here. They're trying to say any aspect of Trump's finances are out of bounds. The Russians are suspected of having financial leverage over Trump. As an aside, even the lawyers representing Trump in other matters (e.g.: travel ban) seem like they make really poor, tortured arguments. If I was Trump I would fire all the morons representing me. I can sit here from my couch and blow apart their legal reasoning. This is silliness, and it's not going to end well for DJT. 1 Link to comment
RedDenver Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Trump can't pardon impeachment. From Wikipedia: In the United States, the pardon power for federal crimes is granted to the President of the United States under Article II, Section 2 of the United States Constitution which states that the President "shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment". The U.S. Supreme Court has interpreted this language to include the power to grant pardons, conditional pardons, commutations of sentence, conditional commutations of sentence, remissions of fines and forfeitures, respites, and amnesties. Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Trump legal team comms director and original lawyer Kasowitz ("Watch your back, b*tch/Bro" guy) hit eject. Edit: Actually, the comms guy left. It sounds like Kasowitz was Trump's decision. He may not be fully out... just lesser role. Link to comment
NM11046 Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 So personal, legal spokesperson out, former personal lawyer demoted. Hmmmm. Link to comment
ZRod Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Trump can't pardon impeachment. From Wikipedia: In the United States, the pardon power for federal crimes is granted to the President of the United States under Article II, Section 2 of the United States Constitution which states that the President "shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment". The U.S. Supreme Court has interpreted this language to include the power to grant pardons, conditional pardons, commutations of sentence, conditional commutations of sentence, remissions of fines and forfeitures, respites, and amnesties. But in theory, I think he could pardon himself from any criminal charges. I listened to a podcast where they explained there is nothing that says he couldn't do it, it's just everyone before him has had enough respect for the office not to do it (ie Clinton and Nixon). Link to comment
NM11046 Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 Trump can't pardon impeachment. From Wikipedia: In the United States, the pardon power for federal crimes is granted to the President of the United States under Article II, Section 2 of the United States Constitution which states that the President "shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment". The U.S. Supreme Court has interpreted this language to include the power to grant pardons, conditional pardons, commutations of sentence, conditional commutations of sentence, remissions of fines and forfeitures, respites, and amnesties. But in theory, I think he could pardon himself from any criminal charges. I listened to a podcast where they explained there is nothing that says he couldn't do it, it's just everyone before him has had enough respect for the office not to do it (ie Clinton and Nixon). Yeah, I think all bets are off with this cat. Link to comment
NM11046 Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 Holy cow. Several of those things in the Jaffy tweet are things that Rachel Maddow was digging into quite frequently on her show (I think - I don't watch very much other than clips on Twitter). Those are thing her investigative skills were turning up but that got very little run elsewhere in the media. The fact that Mueller is confirmed to be looking at those is huge. OTOH, that was the red line in the sand Trump drew for Mueller in regards to being fired. Let's see if his bark is worse than his bite or not. If you think stuff is crazy now, wait until he fires Mueller. Didn't one of the members of the committee say that they would just re-appoint Mueller? Yeah, I hope Trump tries it. Yes - Adam Schiff (one of my biggest political crushes currently) Link to comment
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