Trump's Voter Fraud Panel

[Danny Bateman]

I agree, TGH. It's terribly worrisome for me. I fear for the future of our country.

 

The conservatives movement - Trump, the conservative media, influential GOP politicians - are winning the communication wars. They message better and are able to strike a very base, emotional nerve in enough people to ride it unprecedented power at both the state and federal level.

 

And what are they doing with it? Cracking down on protestors. Eliminating unions. Trying to take healthcare away from people. Tossing environmental regulations out like hotcakes.

 

Their hold on people is very powerful. But it's incredibly damaging to the future of our country and toxic to the American psyche at the moment.

[RedDenver]

I fear we will say "Don't worry guys, he's not a dictator" up until the oh sh#t moment when it's too late.

 

These are horrifying actions (and just as importantly, rhetorical groundwork). At least, they should be.

I know some people will not like me saying this, but as to the bold...

 

That's why we have the 2nd Amendment.

[BigRedBuster]

Here is my problem with all of this. I would be perfectly fine with a panel put together to investigate if there is something more we can do to insure the validity of our elections while at the same time, making sure everyone is allowed to vote. There is nothing inherently wrong with that and any logical Democracy, I would think, would strive for that.

 

However, I have so little faith in the motivations behind this administration and their ability to actually not lie through their stinking teeth about every single detail, that I don't want my voter information (or anyone else's) anywhere near them.

 

My biggest fear is that it seems like every election, more and more people are becoming less and less confident in the process and the security of that process to insure it's valid. It doesn't really matter if that's a valid concern or not. If that's a growing view point in America, then that's a major concern. At some point, one side really isn't going to accept the results and it's going to be ugly.

[TGHusker]

BRB - This could all be solved wt a simple voter ID that verifies citizenship and thus the right to vote. I don't understand why the left has such a hard time wt voter ID laws if the ID is free, gov issued and not easily duplicated. But that is a whole new topic. If a panel is needed to insure voters have equal access, that only citizens vote, and that there is no tampering - I'm fine wt that. But I agree wt you - this is the wrong admin to be doing this and perhaps the initiative should be started via Congress instead if there were a federal panel.

[knapplc]

Because the way the Right wants to implement Voter ID is as a barrier to voting, period. The Voter IDs are never free, TG.

 

This is the same group that is closing polling places, repealing voter protection laws, and gerrymandering districts to consolidate their power. The Right is not interested in fair and free elections and/or cleaning up voter fraud. They are interested in holding onto power, disenfranchising voters predisposed not to vote for them, and to make it harder in every way to undo their actions.

 

No lover of Democracy should have trouble understanding that.

[Danny Bateman]

Presuming impartiality or good intentions from anyone involved in this panel, least of all Kris Kobach, is a mistake.

 

They have an agenda. And it's not protecting voting integrity.

[TGHusker]

Because the way the Right wants to implement Voter ID is as a barrier to voting, period. The Voter IDs are never free, TG.

 

This is the same group that is closing polling places, repealing voter protection laws, and gerrymandering districts to consolidate their power. The Right is not interested in fair and free elections and/or cleaning up voter fraud. They are interested in holding onto power, disenfranchising voters predisposed not to vote for them, and to make it harder in every way to undo their actions.

 

No lover of Democracy should have trouble understanding that.

I agree wt your comments. Voting is the most precious right that we have - it is the putting 'feet' under free speech. Free speech is meaningless without a truly free, uninhibited, fair election.

Voter IDs should be free. Used to validate citizenship - thus the right to vote.

Gerrymandering of voting districts violate equal representation in my opinion - should be a SC challenge against it prohibiting any party in control of the state from doing so.

Campaign finance laws need to be changed back to pre- Citizens United SC decision. Too much money causes over-representation of a relatively select few. Makes the elected the puppets of the big money donors - corporations and unions.

[Danny Bateman]

TGH, if you're interested in gerrymandering, Whitford v. Gill is the case you need to keep your eye on. SCOTUS will be hearing arguments for it in the fall. It's the closest, best chance we have at a definitive ruling against partisan gerrymandering. Racial gerrymandering is struck down by courts almost without question, but they've been hesitant to do the same for partisan gerrymandering.

 

Here are some summaries of what has happened so far and some background.

[knapplc]

 

Because the way the Right wants to implement Voter ID is as a barrier to voting, period. The Voter IDs are never free, TG.

 

This is the same group that is closing polling places, repealing voter protection laws, and gerrymandering districts to consolidate their power. The Right is not interested in fair and free elections and/or cleaning up voter fraud. They are interested in holding onto power, disenfranchising voters predisposed not to vote for them, and to make it harder in every way to undo their actions.

 

No lover of Democracy should have trouble understanding that.

I agree wt your comments. Voting is the most precious right that we have - it is the putting 'feet' under free speech. Free speech is meaningless without a truly free, uninhibited, fair election.

Voter IDs should be free. Used to validate citizenship - thus the right to vote.

Gerrymandering of voting districts violate equal representation in my opinion - should be a SC challenge against it prohibiting any party in control of the state from doing so.

Campaign finance laws need to be changed back to pre- Citizens United SC decision. Too much money causes over-representation of a relatively select few. Makes the elected the puppets of the big money donors - corporations and unions.

 

 

That's all very admirable, but the complaint against "the left" is misguided:

 

 

I don't understand why the left has such a hard time wt voter ID laws if the ID is free, gov issued and not easily duplicated.

 

While I agree with you that we should have to produce verifiable ID to vote and it should be free, it is neither currently required nor, in any Voter ID law, is that ID free. And all of those laws are coming from the Right, not the Left, as a direct assault against the voting rights of Americans.

 

If you want to complain about the lack of Voter ID, complain about the correct reason we don't enforce them.

[zoogs]

Here is my problem with all of this. I would be perfectly fine with a panel put together to investigate if there is something more we can do to insure the validity of our elections while at the same time, making sure everyone is allowed to vote. There is nothing inherently wrong with that and any logical Democracy, I would think, would strive for that.

 

However, I have so little faith in the motivations behind this administration and their ability to actually not lie through their stinking teeth about every single detail, that I don't want my voter information (or anyone else's) anywhere near them.

 

My biggest fear is that it seems like every election, more and more people are becoming less and less confident in the process and the security of that process to insure it's valid. It doesn't really matter if that's a valid concern or not. If that's a growing view point in America, then that's a major concern. At some point, one side really isn't going to accept the results and it's going to be ugly.

So well said, BRB.

 

It's telling that this administration not only has interest in this election fraud stuff, they're pursuing it aggressively. And they not only lack interest in the Russia stuff, they're batting that down aggressively.

[TGHusker]

 

 

Because the way the Right wants to implement Voter ID is as a barrier to voting, period. The Voter IDs are never free, TG.

 

This is the same group that is closing polling places, repealing voter protection laws, and gerrymandering districts to consolidate their power. The Right is not interested in fair and free elections and/or cleaning up voter fraud. They are interested in holding onto power, disenfranchising voters predisposed not to vote for them, and to make it harder in every way to undo their actions.

 

No lover of Democracy should have trouble understanding that.

I agree wt your comments. Voting is the most precious right that we have - it is the putting 'feet' under free speech. Free speech is meaningless without a truly free, uninhibited, fair election.

Voter IDs should be free. Used to validate citizenship - thus the right to vote.

Gerrymandering of voting districts violate equal representation in my opinion - should be a SC challenge against it prohibiting any party in control of the state from doing so.

Campaign finance laws need to be changed back to pre- Citizens United SC decision. Too much money causes over-representation of a relatively select few. Makes the elected the puppets of the big money donors - corporations and unions.

 

 

That's all very admirable, but the complaint against "the left" is misguided:

 

 

I don't understand why the left has such a hard time wt voter ID laws if the ID is free, gov issued and not easily duplicated.

 

While I agree with you that we should have to produce verifiable ID to vote and it should be free, it is neither currently required nor, in any Voter ID law, is that ID free. And all of those laws are coming from the Right, not the Left, as a direct assault against the voting rights of Americans.

 

If you want to complain about the lack of Voter ID, complain about the correct reason we don't enforce them.

 

Knapp - I stand correct. I wasn't aware that the V ID laws all had fees associated wt them. That is discrimination - period. So, therefore wt that understanding I retract the 'left' and blame the 'right'. I need to study what actually is written in those laws.

Damn, when I realize what some of the stuff going on in what are supposedly conservative bills as you guys point it out, I realize I'm getting more moderate by the day. Thanks for taking the time to correct. That is the definition of a friend from

Proverbs 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

I would rather be corrected than be misguided.

[Moiraine]

A voter ID would be great if it was given to every non-felon aged 18 and older, FOR FREE.

[deedsker]

A voter ID would be great if it was given to every non-felon aged 18 and older, FOR FREE.

While we are at it, make it your photo id for all citizens. Automatically signed up as voter with photo id for all identification purposes.

 

No voter fraud, no citizen lacking identification.

[Danny Bateman]

Even...reformed felons. Even... undocumented immigrants! (IDs, anyway.)

GOP:

 

[deedsker]

Even...reformed felons. Even... undocumented immigrants! (IDs, anyway.)

 

GOP:

 

They are...still citizens...who needed...identification. Right?

 

You can't vote from a prison cell.

 

Edit: sorry felons who are released have served out their punishment, right?

 

Illegal immigrants are a different problem. They, they...they do whatever they do now?