Bo Pelini & Ma'Lik Richmond

[B.B. Hemingway]

What he did was despicable, but he was also a kid. I really do find it shocking that so many people don't think he deserves a second chance at life.

[zoogs]

Wait a minute. "He was just a kid" is shoplifting, or, to borrow something from Brenda's feed, egging someone's house. He another human being -- also a kind -- and raped her. He was also 16, and could have been tried as an adult (but wasn't).

 

I think this is fundamentally a question of how we view rape as a society.

 

There's a strong argument for me that he should never have been allowed to complete high school, much less go back to his team, which I believe he did.

[zoogs]

Like, these were not youthful indiscretions. They're not "well, it's a mistake and he's paid for it". They're not "let's not make one bad into a cycle of criminality".

 

But how does society take a stand regarding rape without treating it a lot more gravely than we currently do? As something where the takeaway here is far more than "We gotta tell these boys that what they do on social media will stick with them forever", but rather, "You shall not rape. Your rights and freedoms are forfeit if you do." How we view this crime matters, and it's reflected in our language and our responses to it.

[B.B. Hemingway]

Like, these were not youthful indiscretions. They're not "well, it's a mistake and he's paid for it". They're not "let's not make one bad into a cycle of criminality".

 

But how does society take a stand regarding rape without treating it a lot more gravely than we currently do? As something where the takeaway here is far more than "We gotta tell these boys that what they do on social media will stick with them forever", but rather, "You shall not rape. Your rights and freedoms are forfeit if you do." How we view this crime matters, and it's reflected in our language and our responses to it.

 

You don't get to assume I take rape lightly, just because I think the kid should be allowed to try and live his life. Last time I checked, 16 years old still makes you a kid. He served his punishment according to our justice system, and what he did will have an affect on the kind of quality his life will have. I mean, would you all just be happier if he offed himself? Is that what he should do?

[Enhance]

That's a disingenuous and hyperbolic way of characterizing zoogs' opinion. Nobody here wants to see anybody commit suicide.

 

Saying "he was also a kid" suggests making a mistake like sexual assault is akin to committing a petty minor offense like disorderly conduct or shoplifting. That may not be your intent, or the intent of anybody who thinks similarly, but that's a very natural nexus for interpretation. As I'm sure you'd agree, rape is inexcusable in any circumstance. It should never and can never be chalked up to adolescent indiscretion.

 

My perspective aligns closely with the girl who submitted the petition. She does not believe he should be expelled and she believes he should get a second chance at an education, but representing the football team (and the university by extension) is certainly a questionable decision. IMO, it goes too far.

[Crusader Husker]

I think it will be interesting to see what happens. It may set a precedent for this issue with many schools.

[B.B. Hemingway]

That's a disingenuous and hyperbolic way of characterizing zoogs' opinion. Nobody here wants to see anybody commit suicide.

 

Saying "he was also a kid" suggests making a mistake like sexual assault is akin to committing a petty minor offense like disorderly conduct or shoplifting. That may not be your intent, or the intent of anybody who thinks similarly, but that's a very natural nexus for interpretation. As I'm sure you'd agree, rape is inexcusable in any circumstance. It should never and can never be chalked up to adolescent indiscretion.

 

My perspective aligns closely with the girl who submitted the petition. She does not believe he should be expelled and she believes he should get a second chance at an education, but representing the football team (and the university by extension) is certainly a questionable decision. IMO, it goes too far.

 

Obviously, I'd never compare rape to shoplifting. The "he was a kid" comment was made to say that kids make mistakes without a full understanding of the consequences, and, especially in his case, the permanent damaged they might be causing.... Obviously, he made a HUGE mistake. I just feel that if all parties (coaches, player, university)are okay with him on the football team, then he should be allowed to participate.

 

To be honest, I misunderstood what the petition was calling for before my initial post. I thought they were wanting him removed from the university altogether.

[huKSer]

I hope that he makes millions in what ever career he gets.

 

 

So the victim can make hundreds of thousands of dollars

 

Not that it will make it all good, but it might be some consolation to her

[B.B. Hemingway]

I hope that he makes millions in what ever career he gets.

 

 

So the victim can make hundreds of thousands of dollars

 

Not that it will make it all good, but it might be some consolation to her

 

I'm no lawyer, so I ask.... Is that possible? Years after the fact?

[jsneb83]

In my opinion, as a human being, you shouldn't want to inflict pain and suffering onto another human, and that should be for both kids and adults. A 16 year old who raped someone shouldn't be forgiven any more than a 30 year old simply because "he's just a kid, this shouldn't ruin his life." Well, if he didn't want to ruin his life, he probably shouldn't have caused so much pain and suffering on another human, for his own pleasure no less.

 

Now should he be forgiven or get a second chance? If he earns it, which should be by doing more than just the bare minimum of doing your time. If he's truly sorry, he would help the people he's hurt. Volunteer, become a speaker. Do not believe that you should be given a second chance simply because you did your time or what you were supposed to do.

[jsneb83]

 

 

That's a disingenuous and hyperbolic way of characterizing zoogs' opinion. Nobody here wants to see anybody commit suicide.

 

Saying "he was also a kid" suggests making a mistake like sexual assault is akin to committing a petty minor offense like disorderly conduct or shoplifting. That may not be your intent, or the intent of anybody who thinks similarly, but that's a very natural nexus for interpretation. As I'm sure you'd agree, rape is inexcusable in any circumstance. It should never and can never be chalked up to adolescent indiscretion.

 

My perspective aligns closely with the girl who submitted the petition. She does not believe he should be expelled and she believes he should get a second chance at an education, but representing the football team (and the university by extension) is certainly a questionable decision. IMO, it goes too far.

Obviously, I'd never compare rape to shoplifting. The "he was a kid" comment was made to say that kids make mistakes without a full understanding of the consequences, and, especially in his case, the permanent damaged they might be causing.... Obviously, he made a HUGE mistake. I just feel that if all parties (coaches, player, university)are okay with him on the football team, then he should be allowed to participate.

 

To be honest, I misunderstood what the petition was calling for before my initial post. I thought they were wanting him removed from the university altogether.

Even if he didn't fully know the consequences, he shouldn't have done it because he is physically harming another human for no reason other than for his own pleasure. Why would anyone want to do that?

[B.B. Hemingway]

 

 

That's a disingenuous and hyperbolic way of characterizing zoogs' opinion. Nobody here wants to see anybody commit suicide.

 

Saying "he was also a kid" suggests making a mistake like sexual assault is akin to committing a petty minor offense like disorderly conduct or shoplifting. That may not be your intent, or the intent of anybody who thinks similarly, but that's a very natural nexus for interpretation. As I'm sure you'd agree, rape is inexcusable in any circumstance. It should never and can never be chalked up to adolescent indiscretion.

 

My perspective aligns closely with the girl who submitted the petition. She does not believe he should be expelled and she believes he should get a second chance at an education, but representing the football team (and the university by extension) is certainly a questionable decision. IMO, it goes too far.

Obviously, I'd never compare rape to shoplifting. The "he was a kid" comment was made to say that kids make mistakes without a full understanding of the consequences, and, especially in his case, the permanent damaged they might be causing.... Obviously, he made a HUGE mistake. I just feel that if all parties (coaches, player, university)are okay with him on the football team, then he should be allowed to participate.

 

To be honest, I misunderstood what the petition was calling for before my initial post. I thought they were wanting him removed from the university altogether.

Even if he didn't fully know the consequences, he shouldn't have done it because he is physically harming another human for no reason other than for his own pleasure. Why would anyone want to do that?

 

 

I don't know.

 

I would not want to do that.

 

Ask him.

[Enhance]

 

I hope that he makes millions in what ever career he gets.

 

 

So the victim can make hundreds of thousands of dollars

 

Not that it will make it all good, but it might be some consolation to her

 

I'm no lawyer, so I ask.... Is that possible? Years after the fact?

 

I do not know the details of the case, but I imagine the judge would had to have ordered some kind of monetary damages in order for the victim to collect anything. However, I haven't heard anybody say anything about that, and I don't know if this was tried in civil court.

[zoogs]

The "he was a kid" comment was made to say that kids make mistakes without a full understanding of the consequences, and, especially in his case, the permanent damaged they might be causing.... Obviously, he made a HUGE mistake.

I struggle with using this language. When we look at it as a person making a mistake, no matter how severe, there's this very intransitive framing that's been attached to it. Sure, there's someone hurt in any crime from a house-egging to a shoplifting, but we can fundamentally think of it as someone else's personal mistake.

A rape isn't just someone's personal failing, though. It's as horrific a transgression as one person can inflict upon another. I think it says a lot about some of the proposed outcomes for the perpetrators that the best, and perhaps only way to justify them is to use language that severs this connection.

We also have an unfortunate tendency to see the victims, on some level, as money-chasers.(Brenda Tracy is regularly accused of monetizing her experience by making a career of it). If consolation and justice is really what we want for them, I don't think we would entertain a scenario where she has to watch her perpetrator become a wildly successful millionaire. I think that would be the very opposite of consolation.

Lastly, I think something that's hopefully evident here is the extent to which rapists (particularly underage ones?) are afforded a wide latitude of second chances almost by default. Consider the extent to which we're thinking here about the consequences and the negative impacts to him. There's certainly no deficit of society's consideration for their future. Quite to the contrary. And that seems backwards.

[zoogs]

Hey, in the same vein!