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Trump Domestic Policy - Budgets, etc

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We have a thread on Trump's foreign policy, so I thought I'd start one to address his budget policies, etc.

Starting with this article linked below.   Trump has angered the repub leadership and has agreed with Dem leaders

on a 3 mo only debt limit extension.  The Repubs originally wanted a 18 mo (get it pass the next election - the DC

trick to kick cans and not deal squarely with an issue before an election.).  The Dems rejected that as well as Trump.

So Repubs reduced it to 6 month.  Dems held tight to their 3 month.  In this case, I'm glad Trump sided wt the Dems just

to rebuke the Republican leadership that hasn't gotten anything done.  The Harvey aid money is in the extension as it should

be.   The Repubs are steaming under their collars at this public rebuke. 

With many of Trump arch right assistants no longer in the admin, I wonder if we will see a move to the more moderate side

from Trump going forward.  He has now emphasized his independence from Rep leaders.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/democratic-congressional-leaders-offer-support-for-harvey-aid-debt-limit-rise-1504710285

 

First part of the article:

 

WASHINGTON—President Donald Trump stunned Republicans on Wednesday when he overrode pleas from GOP congressional leaders and sided with Democrats on a proposal to attach emergency aid for Hurricane Harvey victims to measures to keep the government funded and its borrowing limit suspended until mid-December.

Mr. Trump’s decision to strike a deal with Democrats upended the partisan alliances that have long set the boundaries of congressional policy-making, opening up new possibilities for bipartisan deal-making if Democrats can again persuade Mr. Trump to bypass Republican leaders.

For months, Mr. Trump had suggested that he might work with Democrats if Republicans couldn’t advance his legislative priorities, but he always pulled back at the last minute. The Republican president’s move Wednesday raised questions about whether he will now turn to Democrats to reach deals on tax reform and immigration.

The startling deal Wednesday, reached after a meeting between Mr. Trump and congressional leaders in the Oval Office, was driven by an urge to present a unified government at a time of crisis, as millions of Americans braced for Hurricane Irma’s wrath and others struggled to rebuild after Harvey, GOP leaders said.

If approved by Congress, the agreement would defer the threat of a partial government shutdown and a default on the country’s debt until Dec. 15 and dispatch the first $7.85 billion installment of Harvey relief, clearing the three most pressing items from the crowded September legislative agenda.

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The budget issues are going to be very interesting to watch.  This was a huge part of what Trump campaigned on.  A heck of a lot of conservatives are conservative based on fiscal policies and they are very concerned about our financial situation in this country.  They voted overwhelmingly for Trump claiming he's this great business man and he understands budgets and how to get things done at a lower cost.

 

I personally still think even on this subject Trump is a buffoon.  His comments about being the "king of debt" and not caring if the US defaults because he would just "renegotiate"........were asinine.....and shows how totally incompetent he is when it comes to these issues.

 

He will do what he has done since taking office.  He will proclaim that there is a problem with the budget and congress "needs to do their job".  He will go golfing and insult a bunch of people.  He will write some tweets that totally derails the debate over the budget.  Nothing will get done and he will blame congress......and the Fake Media.

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Agree BRR with that last 2 paragraphs

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/06/hill-trump-relations-242411

 

Repubs react to Trumps betrayal.   Maybe one side benefit. The repub leaders will get more 'balls' and see they don't need to be loyal to Trump either - bring on the Mueller investigation results. 

 

quote

On Wednesday morning, Ryan called the deal floated by Democrats to fund the government and lift the debt ceiling through mid-December as part of a relief package for Hurricane Harvey victims “disgraceful.” Expecting cover from Trump on their insistence to extend the debt ceiling much longer, Ryan and McConnell instead were abandoned.

Just the night before, Ryan and his leadership team were told by White House officials that Trump would publicly endorse their plan to pair Harvey emergency funding bill with an 18-month debt ceiling hike. They were optimistic his support would help secure more Republican votes.

Only, Trump went rogue. White House officials apologized to congressional leaders after the meeting, according to a GOP source on Capitol Hill. But the damage was done.

"It doesn’t help our leadership to try to hold us Republicans together on anything when they know the president will chop them off at the knees,” said a House Republican lawmaker allied with Ryan. “Trump has got to start caring more about his colleagues over here.”

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Meanwhile on the tax side we have Trump promising 'great details' --- whatever that means.  Trump should have worked on budget and tax issue and infrastructure issues at the beginning. Now they lag behind because of all of the wasted effort on ACA repeal.  As noted below, Trump was short on specifics -- Why? because he is the Sargent Shultz of politics - He knows nothing and is relying on Congress to do it all.  As noted below, the business community had expected changes in the tax structure early in year.   Final note, last bold statement quoted below - don't be critical of dear leader - it may affect your career opportunities.

 

https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/trump-rally-will-get/2017/09/06/id/812081/

President Donald Trump said on Wednesday he would get into "great detail" in the next two weeks on his U.S. tax reform plan, which has been short on specifics, even after months of discussions among administration and congressional leaders.

Trump, at a speech in North Dakota, listed his broad principles for tax reform as simplifying the U.S. tax code and providing tax relief to middle-class Americans, ideas he has been talking about since his 2016 presidential campaign.

"We're going to get into great detail over the next two weeks, but we're working on it with Congress now and coming up with very exacting numbers," Trump said.

The U.S. stock market rallied earlier this year on hopes of swift tax cuts for businesses under Trump, but analysts have since reduced expectations for major tax changes this year.

The Republican party is still divided on significant issues, such as whether or not tax cuts should be offset with spending cuts to avoid expanding the federal budget deficit and how deeply to cut the corporate income tax rate.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, who accompanied Trump on the trip, said he expected the administration's tax plan to be considered by congressional committees later this month.

"We have a plan. The plan's being socialized with members," Mnuchin told reporters on Air Force One on the return to Washington. "Our expectation is it will be in the (congressional) committees later this month," he said.

 

Mnuchin is one of a six-member Republican team that has been negotiating a tax plan behind closed doors for months, excluding Democrats and producing only a few pages of basic principles. Some members of the team have recently tangled with Trump.

Trump economic adviser Gary Cohn is also a member of the "Big Six" team. According to sources close to the White House and an administration official, Trump has soured on nominating Cohn to lead the Federal Reserve.

That comes, two sources said, since Cohn criticized the president's response to the violence sparked by a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, last month.

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Tax reform.  Maybe Trump is finally getting the message - bipartisanship works better than calling out your political foes and trying to shame them.  Maybe General Kelly is making a difference as Cheif of Staff.  Regardless, I like that he is reaching out to 3 Dems and 3 Repub senators to get the tax reform process going. He needs to do the same with ACA reform. 

Perhaps his deal wt Schummer and San Fran Nan a week ago will become a turning point for him and the admin.  We shall see. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/09/11/trump-to-host-six-senators-from-both-parties-for-white-house-dinner/?utm_term=.349f10fc5e1a

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Ok, it looks like I'm having a conversation with myself & wt BRB  with his 2 post added!!! But I'll continue anyway  :snacks:.

This link talks about the admin's 'tax blitz' (at least they have a blitz package - maybe our DC should consult with them over our non-existent pass rush .. but I digress - excuse the ADHD moment).  Trump and new team are trying to avoid the massive communication errors they had in the Obama Care repeal fiasco.  He is wooing Dems and getting his admin more involved.

We'll see how well this  process goes. If the repub congress can't get legislation passed, then it is time for a reboot in Congress as well.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-12/trump-is-said-to-plan-aggressive-road-show-to-sell-tax-overhaul-j7hb4fhi

 

They are even considering back dating the tax cuts to Jan 1, 2017

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/12/mnuchin-tax-reform-is-trumps-number-one-priority-we-will-get-it-done.html

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said Tuesday the Trump administration is considering backdating tax reform to the start of this year to boost the economy.

Backdating "is still something we are considering and it would be a big boon for the economy," he said at the Delivering Alpha conference presented by CNBC and Institutional Investor.

Republicans aim to overhaul the American tax code but have faced various hurdles in their goal of passing a tax reform bill this year. Congress and the White House have not yet released a plan but are working this month to prepare legislation. Mnuchin heads to Capitol Hill on Tuesday to discuss tax policy with GOP congressional leaders, the latest in a series of meetings.

 

Earlier Tuesday, Mnuchin insisted that a tax overhaul would happen this year.

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I'm following along also.  Good posts.

 

Well, both the Dems and the Repubs are in a position to make huge strides for the country AND politically.  Trump may have actually done something right of once by reaching across the isle and not just constantly demeaning people from the other side.

 

Now.....if both sides take the bait and actually work together to accomplish this, they will win politically...BOTH sides.  

 

Right now, America is sick of it.  The politicians and their own media outlets have lead the way in dehumanizing the other side.  It has become an environment where people truly believe the other side is the "enemy of the state".  If they can actually work together to accomplish tax reform, maybe it would be a spark to allow them to work together on other issues.

 

Hmmmm.....while typing that, I just keep thinking that Trump will screw it up somehow.  He will do something or tweet something that will blow the entire process up so it's impossible to get it accomplished.

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I wonder how long it's going to take us to recover from Trump's domestic policies (assuming we ever do). It's much faster and easier to tear things down than build them back up.

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On budget-cutting, etc:

 

 

Fair point. Put the budget-cutting mantra in perspective. It's not about outlandish and leftist, it's about red meat. What are the right kinds and amounts of it to dangle out there so that, supported by your voting base, you can achieve the top percentile wealth security that has always been the honest primary aim.

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I have said for a long time, I am all for lowering the corporate rate as long as it's made up somewhere else.  My view is that you lower the corporate rate and then raise the rate on people who benefit from that corporation.  So.....the higher income people in that corporation are going to be taxed higher on what they draw out of the corporation.  

 

 

 

Quote

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin on Tuesday cast doubt on President Donald Trump’s goal of cutting the corporate tax rate to 15 percent, even as the president moved to inject new urgency into a sluggish effort in Congress to lower taxes. 

“Ideally, he’d like to get it down to 15 percent. I don’t know if we’ll be able to achieve that given the budget issues, but we’re going to get this down to a very competitive level,” Mnuchin told a conference in New York hosted by CNBC.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

I have said for a long time, I am all for lowering the corporate rate as long as it's made up somewhere else.  My view is that you lower the corporate rate and then raise the rate on people who benefit from that corporation.  So.....the higher income people in that corporation are going to be taxed higher on what they draw out of the corporation.  

 

 

 

 

The trick is to also not let corporations just sit on large amounts of cash for extended periods, as that's bad for the economy, especially since they tend to group think and all do it at once.

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If you're going to slash the corporate tax rates, you need to reform the whole deduction system. Far too many loopholes. For all the blubbering people do about us being one of the highest taxed countries in the world (not true, FWIW) and how the corporate rate strangles the economy, it's silly to pretend that any of the major corporations that bring the most business to the our economy pay anywhere near 35%. The best tax lawyers money can buy get your plenty of deductions to drive your effective rate down.

 

Slashing them without addressing loopholes is just bad policy. Furthermore, I saw the other day part of their plan to drive down the corporate rate was to tax the money people put into their 401ks and other retirement accounts. Try selling that and see how popular it is.

Red raised a legit point, too. When you slash taxes for wealthy people, they DON'T tend to dump it back into the economy to join ranks with the mythical "job creators." They hold onto their money, because they can. I'm wondering if corporations would as well. I don't know how many times we have to watch that movie play out before understand. It didn't work for Reagan, it didn't work for Bush, it sure as heck didn't work for Kansas...

 

Regardless, it's got a chance to be popular and productive if they do it right, but that's threading a very tiny needle. Color me skeptical. I'll believe Trump does something positive when I see it with my own eyes.

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I don't know if that works. Generally speaking I'm not for punishing people for the sake of helping out corporations. Now, perhaps if the highest-paid people were the ones to take a hit...but at that point, isn't it a lot muddier? These are people whose net worth comes from their stake in the company, etc, not from salary. Meanwhile, suppose you do put the screws to them, flushing corporations with more wealth (or security). Doesn't that not trickle down to the next levels of employees who need it? Don't these burgeoning margins inevitably get seen as benefits primarily by the top execs, etc, anyway?

 

I don't think there's a real way "around" it. At least, I think this summarizes the argument against on this topic. I'm a bit ignorant in this area, so pardon that and correct me where I'm wrong, too.

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1. End all corporate loopholes.

 

2. Pay 22.5% taxes for all net income  in business incentivizing money be spent on talent retention, wages, property, etc.

 

3. All personal income is taxed without regard to source with only the regular exemption, personal tax credit, child credit, and savings credit.

 

4.?

 

5. Profit!

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14 hours ago, deedsker said:

1. End all corporate loopholes.

 

2. Pay 22.5% taxes for all net income  in business incentivizing money be spent on talent retention, wages, property, etc.

 

3. All personal income is taxed without regard to source with only the regular exemption, personal tax credit, child credit, and savings credit.

 

4.?

 

5. Profit!

Are investments (for example) income?

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On 9/12/2017 at 0:16 PM, zoogs said:

On budget-cutting, etc:

 

 

Fair point. Put the budget-cutting mantra in perspective. It's not about outlandish and leftist, it's about red meat. What are the right kinds and amounts of it to dangle out there so that, supported by your voting base, you can achieve the top percentile wealth security that has always been the honest primary aim.

I use to think NPR and Public TV should be on the cutting board but I don't anymore.  I feel they give more stories, more variety, and are less prone to camp in or on one topic as the cable news networks.  One could argue that they may lean more left but if you are a more right leaner, you should be smart enough to figure it out and hopefully be 'enlightened' with another perspective.  Hearing  a different perspective is good - doesn't mean you have to be tossed around by every perspective but it helps with understanding which is important.  I've enjoyed listening to NPR on my commute and sometimes I end up shifting my ideas on a topic due to the new understanding. 

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1 hour ago, zoogs said:

Are investments (for example) income?

 

Yes. All income is income* with no need to know where it came from. 

 

This increase available income toward SS* and Medicare*, eliminates loopholes where individuals with large investment income have lower marginal rates than working class people, and greatly reduces workload on enforcement and paperwork related to sourcing income.

 

*SS and Medicare recipients may have their income counted differently depending on what these changes would do to those individuals and how their benefits would be effected.

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Before advocating for slashing corporate tax rates, I implore you to read up on Brownback's experiment here in Kansas. This was a Heritage Foundation/Koch family wet dream that has failed miserably for 99.9% of the state.

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@deedsker, if I own 10% stock in a company for example, when and how is that taxed? To whom does the taxed portion go, and in what form? Maybe I'm not understanding correctly.

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31 minutes ago, QMany said:

Before advocating for slashing corporate tax rates, I implore you to read up on Brownback's experiment here in Kansas. This was a Heritage Foundation/Koch family wet dream that has failed miserably for 99.9% of the state.

That would be needed if a)  I didn't already know what a miserable experiment that was....and b)  I wasn't proposing increasing other taxes to pay for the cut.

 

I am NOT for cutting corporate taxes and leaving everything else the same....or....God forbid cutting everything else too.

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Just now, BigRedBuster said:

That would be needed if a)  I didn't already know what a miserable experiment that was....and b)  I wasn't proposing increasing other taxes to pay for the cut.

 

I saw your post about raising the rate on higher incomes in the corporation. That does seem great in theory. But this is Donald Trump and a GOP House & Senate we are talking about; they will attempt to cut the corporate rate and vehemently refuse to increase taxes on their high-income pocket-liners. Those will not be tied together under this Administration, no matter how many lies Trump tells.

 

I just want others to be educated what happens when that experiment is implemented without other ways to pay for it.

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23 minutes ago, zoogs said:

@deedsker, if I own 10% stock in a company for example, when and how is that taxed? To whom does the taxed portion go, and in what form? Maybe I'm not understanding correctly.

I'm not deedsker, but IMO would be the same as now with the capital gains tax except it would be at the income tax rate. So you'd pay when you sold the stock, and the amount you'd pay on would be the profit (sell price - buy price) times the marginal tax rate for that part of your income.

 

EDIT: So if you sold the stock at a loss or no profit, you wouldn't owe any tax.

Edited by RedDenver
clarifying

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4 hours ago, RedDenver said:

I'm not deedsker, but IMO would be the same as now with the capital gains tax except it would be at the income tax rate. So you'd pay when you sold the stock, and the amount you'd pay on would be the profit (sell price - buy price) times the marginal tax rate for that part of your income.

 

EDIT: So if you sold the stock at a loss or no profit, you wouldn't owe any tax.

Beat me to it. Thanks RD.

 

You could/would be liable for SS or Medicare taxes in my new method as well. 

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On 9/12/2017 at 10:58 AM, RedDenver said:

I'm reading along, TG, just haven't commented

I'm here too - it's just not an area I know much about or have a strong opinion on yet ... have a feeling watching this thread that I will though!  Thanks for doing the heavy lifting!

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http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/mick-mulvaney-3-percent-gdp-growth-economy/2017/09/29/id/816611/

 

3% GDP Goal reached early per the administration.    However, what are the policies that have been enacted that led to that 3% goal.  I can't think of one - maybe someone else has ideas on how the admin has helped the economy to grow to that point.  I know the GDP never reached 3% under Obama and I doubt any executive orders or legislation caused it to reach that level in the less than one year that Trump has been president.

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It's clear there hasn't been any major legislation that has been passed to affect the economy.

 

What they are going to hang their hat on is all the executive orders he signed cutting regulations.

 

I find it frustrating (and funny at the same time) that the Republicans thought Obama was such a tyrant because he used so many executive orders.......now they love them.

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We have an aging population with growing costs.  I'm in that near retirement stage myself.  While the repubs might rightfully say it is a cut in the growth of these programs what is not accounted for is the growth of inflation. Inflation as measured today is kept artificially low - thus reducing any CPI increases given to Soc Sec recipients.   While inflation is reported low, it feels like a different story at the grocery store.  It cost my wife and I more per week for fewer groceries now than it did 20 years ago when we had our two sons in our home, who eat like their dad- yuge. 

 

I have some concerns about the potential pain that might be felt wt this budget deal.  We are talking about large cuts to pay for tax cuts while at the same time we are sabre rattling.   A decade ago that was prescrib for disaster as GWB cut taxes AND raged 2 wars.   Do we need a modern military to meet the threats in our modern world - yes.  But it is time to make some drastic cuts in our overseas operations so that it isn't the domestic area that takes the brunt of this budget deal.  Germany, Japan and yes SK have economies that could and should fully support their own military protection. The same is true wt Saudi Arabia, Israel and other MidEast countries.  While I understand we don't want the world to go to hell while we turn inward, it is time to give minimal 'umbrella' support to these countries and close our bases and bring that funding home to fund needed programs here. 

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31 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

This is something that's very interesting to me and something that is very important to pay attention to.

 

 

I'm not sure what to take away from that other than that Trump hasn't been in office long enough to have enough of a sample size.

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9 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I'm not sure what to take away from that other than that Trump hasn't been in office long enough to have enough of a sample size.

Very very true.  And, that's why I didn't express some great wisdom I gleaned from the graphs.

But, I hope they maintain these and post them from time to time.

 

For the most part, so far it appears nothing has changed economically from the trends that were already happening.  But, that's what I would expect with less than one year in office.

 

But....as we all know......the great orange man is bragging about how he has made the economy take off and roar.  

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On 10/6/2017 at 6:42 PM, dudeguyy said:

Not much discussion of this it seems, but Trump's magical economy just broke a record 7 years worth of private sector job growth that started under Obama in 2010. 

 

 

 


To be fair, most of them were service jobs lost to the Hurricanes. It'll be interesting to see if/how things pick up through the rest of the year, particularly in construction and related industries.
 

Quote

 

Severe weather battered the U.S. economy in September, leading to the first job losses since 2010, the government reported on Friday.

The labor market lost 33,000 jobs last month, though the unemployment rate fell to 4.2 percent, the lowest in 16 years.

Major hurricanes Harvey, Irma and Maria last month devastated parts of Texas and Florida and all of Puerto Rico, weighing heavily on jobs.

"Although the headline number for September is a loss of jobs, the first in seven years, the labor market remains in good shape," PNC chief economist Gus Faucher said in a statement.

"The job losses were due to disruptions from Hurricanes Harvey, Irma and Maria, not underlying weakness in the economy," Faucher added.

Economists had expected a rough report because of the hurricanes, but the results were even weaker than predicted, though they could always be revised upwards in a future report.

"Job growth should resume in October as the impact of the storms fades, and in fact will get a boost through the rest of this year and into 2018 because of rebuilding efforts, supported by federal aid and insurance payments," Faucher said.

 

[...]


Restaurants and bars were hit hardest by September’s storms, with a sharp 105,000-job drop in the sector.

 

 

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/354198-september-jobs-report

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Those of us who complained about budget deficits under Obama, have better start complaining under Trump. So, I'm on record as

complaining.  6th highest deficit at all time and we aren't in a 'hot' war.  The short sighted, finger to the wind republicans are seeking a 'win'

giving up long term fiscal soundness for a short term political PR boost.  They officially are no longer the party of the conservative.

 

From the 1st link below-  The bold and underline show me that 1. They will break promises for expediency  2. They have no idea how they will pay for the tax deductions if they aren't eliminating 'certain deductions'.   3.   Proof they have no conservative underpinnings remaining. Ronald Reagan -RIP.  Do not call the repubs the conservative party. They have removed all doubt. 

 

quote (I added the #s & bold ):

The budget opens the door to expanding the federal deficit by $1.5 trillion over 10 years.

Tax cuts that have become Republicans’ essential policy objective since the Senate failed to pass multiple bills to rewrite Obamacare. Approval of the budget is expected to help shore up ties between Senate GOP leaders and Trump, who is angry at Republicans’ failure on health care and bent on Congress approving a tax-reform package by the end of the year.

(1) At the same time, by agreeing to the massive tax cut, Senate Republicans have officially moved the party far away from its promised goal of ensuring that the tax plan would not add to the deficit. The White House and House Republicans had vowed that the tax cuts would be offset with new revenue from the elimination of certain deductions,(2) but that is no longer the GOP’s goal.(3) Instead, they have abandoned long-standing party orthodoxy of deficit reduction and are seeking a political win after months of frustration on Capitol Hill.

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/10/19/republicans-have-the-budget-votes-they-need-but-democrats-prepare-to-make-it-painful/?utm_term=.34aa2089d0bb

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-ran-666-billion-deficit-in-fiscal-2017-sixth-highest-on-record-treasury-says-1508522722

 

 

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3 hours ago, TGHusker said:

Those of us who complained about budget deficits under Obama, have better start complaining under Trump. So, I'm on record as

complaining.  6th highest deficit at all time and we aren't in a 'hot' war.  The short sighted, finger to the wind republicans are seeking a 'win'

giving up long term fiscal soundness for a short term political PR boost.  They officially are no longer the party of the conservative.

 

From the 1st link below-  The bold and underline show me that 1. They will break promises for expediency  2. They have no idea how they will pay for the tax deductions if they aren't eliminating 'certain deductions'.   3.   Proof they have no conservative underpinnings remaining. Ronald Reagan -RIP.  Do not call the repubs the conservative party. They have removed all doubt. 

 

quote (I added the #s & bold ):

The budget opens the door to expanding the federal deficit by $1.5 trillion over 10 years.

Tax cuts that have become Republicans’ essential policy objective since the Senate failed to pass multiple bills to rewrite Obamacare. Approval of the budget is expected to help shore up ties between Senate GOP leaders and Trump, who is angry at Republicans’ failure on health care and bent on Congress approving a tax-reform package by the end of the year.

(1) At the same time, by agreeing to the massive tax cut, Senate Republicans have officially moved the party far away from its promised goal of ensuring that the tax plan would not add to the deficit. The White House and House Republicans had vowed that the tax cuts would be offset with new revenue from the elimination of certain deductions,(2) but that is no longer the GOP’s goal.(3) Instead, they have abandoned long-standing party orthodoxy of deficit reduction and are seeking a political win after months of frustration on Capitol Hill.

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/10/19/republicans-have-the-budget-votes-they-need-but-democrats-prepare-to-make-it-painful/?utm_term=.34aa2089d0bb

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-ran-666-billion-deficit-in-fiscal-2017-sixth-highest-on-record-treasury-says-1508522722

 

 

 

Way to have some actual principles, TGH. 

I have to laugh at all the GOP members who ran for Congress as budget hawks and talked about restoring fiscal responsibility to Washington. Balancing a budget, cracking down on waste/fraud/abuse & all that jazz....


Time and again the modern GOP has shown it only cares about the budget when a Democrat is in office. It's a useful rhetorical tool to lure disaffected fiscal conservatives, sure. But they really don't care at ALL about any of it once they are in charge. Then they blow up the deficit as much (more!) than Democrats because they're so doggone committed to tax cuts.

 

The see them wave away questions about paying for the massive cuts in their "reform" with dynamic scoring, increased economic activity, etc. is hilarious. They might as well just call it a magic asterisk or wave a magic wand at it. They consistently use funny math to arrive at their projections, and I've yet to see them provide compelling evidence that tax cuts, in and of themselves, spur economic growth. It sure didn't work out that way for Brownback in Kansas.

 

But I'm just along for the ride, like everyone else...

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On 10/20/2017 at 5:33 PM, dudeguyy said:

 

Way to have some actual principles, TGH. 

I have to laugh at all the GOP members who ran for Congress as budget hawks and talked about restoring fiscal responsibility to Washington. Balancing a budget, cracking down on waste/fraud/abuse & all that jazz....


Time and again the modern GOP has shown it only cares about the budget when a Democrat is in office. It's a useful rhetorical tool to lure disaffected fiscal conservatives, sure. But they really don't care at ALL about any of it once they are in charge. Then they blow up the deficit as much (more!) than Democrats because they're so doggone committed to tax cuts.

 

The see them wave away questions about paying for the massive cuts in their "reform" with dynamic scoring, increased economic activity, etc. is hilarious. They might as well just call it a magic asterisk or wave a magic wand at it. They consistently use funny math to arrive at their projections, and I've yet to see them provide compelling evidence that tax cuts, in and of themselves, spur economic growth. It sure didn't work out that way for Brownback in Kansas.

 

But I'm just along for the ride, like everyone else...

Yes, but that ride gets pretty bumpy when real policies manifest in real consequences.  Someone once said that bad theology is a cruel taskmaster. That is true if one speaks of Jim Jones type religious theology or modern day Republican theology.  Tax cuts have become the dogma of the Republican party has full bore abortion without limits has become the same for the Dems.

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On 10/20/2017 at 2:24 PM, TGHusker said:

Those of us who complained about budget deficits under Obama, have better start complaining under Trump. So, I'm on record as

complaining.  6th highest deficit at all time and we aren't in a 'hot' war.  The short sighted, finger to the wind republicans are seeking a 'win'

giving up long term fiscal soundness for a short term political PR boost.  They officially are no longer the party of the conservative.

TG.....

 

This paragraph sums it up.

 

No longer can the Republicans even attempt to claim the are conservative.  They try their best to act like they have the moral high ground with their evangelical votes.  Then, vote in one of the most morally inept people ever in the office.....and everyone knew that when they voted for him.

 

NOW.....this tax bill is a disaster for anyone who is a fiscal conservative and don't like huge deficits.  

 

I will complain till the cows come home about this mess the Republicans are in.  It's truly amazing that they think they can push this crap on us and act like they are the fiscal conservative side.

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9 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

TG.....

 

This paragraph sums it up.

 

No longer can the Republicans even attempt to claim the are conservative.  They try their best to act like they have the moral high ground with their evangelical votes.  Then, vote in one of the most morally inept people ever in the office.....and everyone knew that when they voted for him.

 

NOW.....this tax bill is a disaster for anyone who is a fiscal conservative and don't like huge deficits.  

 

I will complain till the cows come home about this mess the Republicans are in.  It's truly amazing that they think they can push this crap on us and act like they are the fiscal conservative side.

So what do we more 'conservative types' do at this point?:dunno   I'm not talking about the extreme end of the spectrum but those of us who know you have to balance social need with fiscal responsibility.  It is easy to point fingers at the far left - who seem to give no restraint to social spending in the past, yet these 'self described' republican show just as little restraint going the other direction via the tax cuts + spending initiatives. Both are big spenders - one via direct aid to the needy and the other by indirect aid to corporations via tax credits.

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15 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

So what do we more 'conservative types' do at this point?:dunno   I'm not talking about the extreme end of the spectrum but those of us who know you have to balance social need with fiscal responsibility.  It is easy to point fingers at the far left - who seem to give no restraint to social spending in the past, yet these 'self described' republican show just as little restraint going the other direction via the tax cuts + spending initiatives. Both are big spenders - one via direct aid to the needy and the other by indirect aid to corporations via tax credits.

 

The only thing I can think of is to do what I have been doing since Trump won the nomination and ultimately the election.

 

When issues are brought up in groups of friends about issues, I do my best to express how I am still a fiscal conservative and how Trump goes totally against that.  For a while, they always act shocked that I don't just love Trump.  Then, the more I talk, the more frustrated they get and they change the subject.  

 

Hopefully, over time, they start thinking about these issues from a different angle than toting the party line.

 

It honestly is the most frustrating time in my life politically.

 

Just an example of how baffling this whole conversation is.  I literally will have people shoot back....."well, at least he isn't out golfing all the time like Obama."

 

Seriously......that is a common come back and it make my blood boil.

Edited by BigRedBuster

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On 10/23/2017 at 2:30 PM, BigRedBuster said:

When issues are brought up in groups of friends about issues, I do my best to express how I am still a fiscal conservative and how Trump goes totally against that.  For a while, they always act shocked that I don't just love Trump.  Then, the more I talk, the more frustrated they get and they change the subject.  

 

I would call myself conservative, but have found no such housing in the GOP.

Edited by deedsker

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