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Trump Domestic Policy - Budgets, etc


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Well, last fall, he drastically increased the tariffs on Canadian lumber.  The construction industry is going to be interesting to watch.  Oh...yeah.....right when we are wanting to greatly rebuild our infrastructure.

 

I'm also keeping a close eye on agriculture products.  China is a huge user of soybeans.  Europe is a huge user of corn.  Both are upset and have claimed they are going to retaliate.  All these farmers that think they love Trump now......just wait.

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47 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Well, last fall, he drastically increased the tariffs on Canadian lumber.  The construction industry is going to be interesting to watch.  Oh...yeah.....right when we are wanting to greatly rebuild our infrastructure.

 

I'm also keeping a close eye on agriculture products.  China is a huge user of soybeans.  Europe is a huge user of corn.  Both are upset and have claimed they are going to retaliate.  All these farmers that think they love Trump now......just wait.

 

 

Sometimes with politics it's a catch 22 situation where you want people to know the consequences of stupid actions, but if the actions ever take place the consequences are too disasterous.

 

I want people to know how bad this will be. I also want Trump to back down and change his mind so it never happens. But that will leave people ignorant.

 

I can understand thinking tariffs are good on the surface, and I do think there were times they would've been good, like back in the 80s when so much outsourcing began. But I think it's too late now. I also think if Trump had good advisers or was willing to let anyone penetrate his gigantic brain he would've realized it's a bad idea.

Edited by Moiraine
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I'm really curious how Fox News handles a story like this. Their pundits in particular have doubled-down on protecting, defending, and interpreting Trump for the conservative base.

 

But even conservatives like Orin Hatch are flummoxed and pissed about this tariff proposal. While it sounds America First at face value, it's a proven jobs killer and will hit American consumers in the pocket book. And that's not even counting the angry counter-measures our trade allies are proposing. 

 

And of course it's possible that Donald Trump didn't consult or even brief the people on the front lines of a trade issue like this.

 

When I say I'm curious how Fox News handles a story like this, I'm still not curious enough to watch Fox News. 

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Okay. Technically I did graze the news channels last night and paused just long enough on Fox to see Laura Ingram going all in on the Obama administration's culpability for the Florida shooting. 

 

CNN and MSNBC were both hosting breathless panels on Hope Hicks' deserting the Trump ship. CNN did take a break to discuss the tariff issue. 

 

Not sure anyone on TV is doing journalism at the moment. 

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4 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Okay. Technically I did graze the news channels last night and paused just long enough on Fox to see Laura Ingram going all in on the Obama administration's culpability for the Florida shooting. 

 

CNN and MSNBC were both hosting breathless panels on Hope Hicks' deserting the Trump ship. CNN did take a break to discuss the tariff issue. 

 

Not sure anyone on TV is doing journalism at the moment. 

 

 

Prettt sure the tariffs and the cold war are more important than all of that.

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25 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Okay. Technically I did graze the news channels last night and paused just long enough on Fox to see Laura Ingram going all in on the Obama administration's culpability for the Florida shooting. 

 

CNN and MSNBC were both hosting breathless panels on Hope Hicks' deserting the Trump ship. CNN did take a break to discuss the tariff issue. 

 

Not sure anyone on TV is doing journalism at the moment. 

I've been watching more TYT, which has been hiring journalists and investigative reporters. And their recent addition of a weekly show hosted by Dan Rather is really good.

 

But the main show is very progressive/liberal, which they openly admit, so you know their bias right off the bat, and they seem to do a good job of fact-checking.

Edited by RedDenver
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6 hours ago, TGHusker said:

Wisc Gov Scott Walker's face right now:eek:

The tariffs are not a surprise move.  They are part of the platform that helped Trump win the northern states like Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

 

Tariffs are not a stand alone proposition.  Coupled with deregulation, the possibility would be that the U S. is able to return to more of a producer status than a consumer status.

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29 minutes ago, TheSker said:

The tariffs are not a surprise move.  They are part of the platform that helped Trump win the northern states like Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

 

Tariffs are not a stand alone proposition.  Coupled with deregulation, the possibility would be that the U S. is able to return to more of a producer status than a consumer status.



I think everyone posting here understands the argument for tariffs.

But the president needs to be smart enough, be surrounded by smart enough people, to also understand the downfalls and consequences of such a plan, and it's unlikely Trump does, especially given his tweet about trade wars.

Also, returning to manufacturing is easy to talk about, but a lot harder to do. Even if we were suddenly the cheapest producer of steel, it doesn't mean we have the capability of producing enough. It might take years to become capable. I don't know the state of steel manufacturing, but there are other examples where we might not be even close to having the ability to output enough at this time. We lost that a long time ago with some products. You don't just snap your fingers and get it back. And a tariff (especially a big one like this) when we're not ready to produce the raw materials, might be a terrible idea. I'm not too knowledgeable about all this, but those are some of my thoughts.

My view of a lot of Trump voters in those states is that they're pining for the old days and want a bunch of plants to magically and instantly open up again and provide jobs. They're clinging to something we might never see again. The time for tariffs was immediately when some of these raw materials started being outsourced - before businesses started to leave.

The convo piqued my interest so here's a link with info on steel producers.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_steel_producers

 

The U.S. has the 12th and 24th ranked steel producers by volume in 2016.

China has the 2nd, 3rd, 6th ,7th, 9th, 11th, 14th, 17th, 20th, 22nd

 

Another good link:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production

 

 

In 2013 we produced 87 million metric tons of steel. We imported 30.3. We exported 12.5. Using simple math (although I know it's not that simple) if these countries find someone else to buy their steel, we're at an 18 million metric ton shortfall.

 

Top steel exporters in 2013[19]
Rank Country Mt
1 China 61.5
2 Japan 42.5
- European Union[20] 38.7
3 South Korea 50.7
4 Ukraine 24.7
4 Germany 24.3
6 Russia 23.6
7 Turkey 17.3
8 Italy 16.9
9 France 14.2
10 Belgium 13.9
11 United States 12.5
12 Taiwan 11.6
13 India 10.1
14 Spain 9.3
15 Netherlands 8.8
Top steel net exporters in 2013[19]
Rank Country Mt
1 China 46.8
2 Japan 37.1
3 Ukraine 23.0
4 Russia 17.1
5 South Korea 9.9
- European Union[20] 7.9
6 Brazil 4.4
7 Taiwan 3.8
7 Belgium 3.8
9 Austria 3.7
10 Turkey 2.8
11 Netherlands 2.6
11 Slovakia 2.6
13 India 2.3
 

Imports

net: imports - exports

Top steel importers in 2013[19]
Rank Country Volume
- European Union[20] 30.8
1 United States 30.3
2 Germany 22.1
3 South Korea 19.0
4 Thailand 15.9
5 Italy 15.6
6 China 14.8
7 Turkey 14.5
8 France 13.2
9 Indonesia 12.3
10 Belgium 10.1
11 Vietnam 10.0
12 Canada 8.9
13 Poland 8.1
14 Taiwan 7.8
15 Mexico 7.7
Top steel net importers in 2013[19]
Rank Country Volume
1 United States 17.8
2 Thailand 14.4
3 Indonesia 11.6
4 Vietnam 8.6
5 Saudi Arabia 6.4
6 United Arab Emirates 5.3
7 Algeria 5.1
8 Philippines 4.8
9 Iraq 4.5
10 Egypt 3.9
10 Singapore 3.9
12 Hong Kong 3.2
13 Canada 3.1
13 Poland 3.1
15 Iran 2.7
 


Another ('nother) interesting thing. Our steel production isn't that much less than in 1967, if you check the 2nd link. So, it's pretty clear things are a lot more automated now. Those pining people may not get what they want even if we double it. This applies to most types of plants, I'm guessing.

Edited by Moiraine
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33 minutes ago, Moiraine said:



I think everyone posting here understands the argument for tariffs.

But the president needs to be smart enough, be surrounded by smart enough people, to also understand the downfalls and consequences of such a plan, and it's unlikely Trump does, especially given his tweet about trade wars.

Also, returning to manufacturing is easy to talk about, but a lot harder to do. Even if we were suddenly the cheapest producer of steel, it doesn't mean we have the capability of producing enough. It might take years to become capable. I don't know the state of steel manufacturing, but there are other examples where we might not be even close to having the ability to output enough at this time. We lost that a long time ago with some products. You don't just snap your fingers and get it back. And a tariff (especially a big one like this) when we're not ready to produce the raw materials, might be a terrible idea. I'm not too knowledgeable about all this, but those are some of my thoughts.

My view of a lot of Trump voters in those states is that they're pining for the old days and want a bunch of plants to magically and instantly open up again and provide jobs. They're clinging to something we might never see again. The time for tariffs was immediately when some of these raw materials started being outsourced - before businesses started to leave.

The convo piqued my interest so here's a link with info on steel producers.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_steel_producers

 

The U.S. has the 12th and 24th ranked steel producers by volume in 2016.

China has the 2nd, 3rd, 6th ,7th, 9th, 11th, 14th, 17th, 20th, 22nd

 

Another good link:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production

 

 

In 2013 we produced 87 million metric tons of steel. We imported 30.3. We exported 12.5. Using simple math (although I know it's not that simple) if these countries find someone else to buy their steel, we're at an 18 million metric ton shortfall.

 

Top steel exporters in 2013[19]
Rank Country Mt
1 China 61.5
2 Japan 42.5
- European Union[20] 38.7
3 South Korea 50.7
4 Ukraine 24.7
4 Germany 24.3
6 Russia 23.6
7 Turkey 17.3
8 Italy 16.9
9 France 14.2
10 Belgium 13.9
11 United States 12.5
12 Taiwan 11.6
13 India 10.1
14 Spain 9.3
15 Netherlands 8.8
Top steel net exporters in 2013[19]
Rank Country Mt
1 China 46.8
2 Japan 37.1
3 Ukraine 23.0
4 Russia 17.1
5 South Korea 9.9
- European Union[20] 7.9
6 Brazil 4.4
7 Taiwan 3.8
7 Belgium 3.8
9 Austria 3.7
10 Turkey 2.8
11 Netherlands 2.6
11 Slovakia 2.6
13 India 2.3
 

Imports

net: imports - exports

Top steel importers in 2013[19]
Rank Country Volume
- European Union[20] 30.8
1 United States 30.3
2 Germany 22.1
3 South Korea 19.0
4 Thailand 15.9
5 Italy 15.6
6 China 14.8
7 Turkey 14.5
8 France 13.2
9 Indonesia 12.3
10 Belgium 10.1
11 Vietnam 10.0
12 Canada 8.9
13 Poland 8.1
14 Taiwan 7.8
15 Mexico 7.7
Top steel net importers in 2013[19]
Rank Country Volume
1 United States 17.8
2 Thailand 14.4
3 Indonesia 11.6
4 Vietnam 8.6
5 Saudi Arabia 6.4
6 United Arab Emirates 5.3
7 Algeria 5.1
8 Philippines 4.8
9 Iraq 4.5
10 Egypt 3.9
10 Singapore 3.9
12 Hong Kong 3.2
13 Canada 3.1
13 Poland 3.1
15 Iran 2.7
 


Another ('nother) interesting thing. Our steel production isn't that much less than in 1967, if you check the 2nd link. So, it's pretty clear things are a lot more automated now. Those pining people may not get what they want even if we double it. This applies to most types of plants, I'm guessing.

It means we are a consumer.

 

A global consumer.

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