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Trump Domestic Policy - Budgets, etc

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1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

I don't think it's that interesting, nor do I remember that happening, but maybe you have examples I'm not aware of. There's a difference between cheering a policy of taxing companies for outsourcing and cheering singling out 1 company that upset the president in order to punish them, when that company was pushed to outsource due to plain idiocy by said president.

 

As a matter of policy, I'm okay with taxing companies that outsource.

 

I'm also ok with your avg Joe spouting off the way Trump does about Amazon and Harley Davidson.

 

What isn't ok is the president of the United States selectively going after individual companies he doesn't like, because he's a vindictive asshole.

 

Another thing I don't like is obviously stupid policies that force more companies into thinking they have to make a move like this.

 

 

There is a huge difference between wanting all companies that outsource to pay extra taxes for it, and selectively picking on one company because they shined a negative light on your idiotic tariffs.

 

It's not hypocritical to think Trump is utterly wrong to say this and try to go after 1 company, and at the same time support a policy of taxing companies that outsource.

It has been a Democrat mantra for decades to punish companies that outsource jobs.

 

In fact, I believe it's one of Bernie Sanders' main points he pushes for.

 

And, to be fair...even though I don't want to be.....Trump didn't say this was the only company he was going to "tax the crap out of" for doing this.  In fact, he has said repeatedly that companies that outsource will be taxed heavily.

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27 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

It has been a Democrat mantra for decades to punish companies that outsource jobs.

 

In fact, I believe it's one of Bernie Sanders' main points he pushes for.

 

And, to be fair...even though I don't want to be.....Trump didn't say this was the only company he was going to "tax the crap out of" for doing this.  In fact, he has said repeatedly that companies that outsource will be taxed heavily.

 

 

Yes it has, and I didn't argue it hasn't. It has been what Democrats think the policy should be in general. But that doesn't mean it's interesting or hypocritical that they are against the statement. Everyone should be against the statement regardless of what they feel about whether all companies that outsource should be taxed extra.

 

Democrats don't think it should be applied specifically to individual companies who embarrass them. Do you disagree with the differences I pointed out?

 

It doesn't even matter if Trump has said it about outsourcing in general. That's fine. That's not the problem people have with the statement.

 

How can you think the following is the same and is not singling them out, just like he did with Amazon? It is not in the same ballpark as stating a policy for companies in general. The problem Democrats and others have with it has nothing to do with a policy of taxing companies like them. Everyone, regardless of what they think of taxing outsourcing companies, should be repulsed by the statement. This isn't about a policy of taxing outsourcing. It's about him being personally pissed off at Harley Davidson. Similarly, he wouldn't give a s#!t about the USPS if it wasn't for his hatred or Bezos. It's not okay for the president to say things like this, and the possibility he might actually try it is something people should be concerned about.

 

 

Quote

A Harley-Davidson should never be built in another country-never! Their employees and customers are already very angry at them. If they move, watch, it will be the beginning of the end - they surrendered, they quit! The Aura will be gone and they will be taxed like never before!

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41 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Yes it has, and I didn't argue it hasn't. It has been what Democrats think the policy should be in general. But that doesn't mean it's interesting or hypocritical that they are against the statement. Everyone should be against the statement regardless of what they feel about whether all companies that outsource should be taxed extra.

 

Democrats don't think it should be applied specifically to individual companies who embarrass them. Do you disagree with the differences I pointed out?

 

It doesn't even matter if Trump has said it about outsourcing in general. That's fine. That's not the problem people have with the statement.

 

How can you think the following is the same and is not singling them out, just like he did with Amazon? It is not in the same ballpark as stating a policy for companies in general. The problem Democrats and others have with it has nothing to do with a policy of taxing companies like them. Everyone, regardless of what they think of taxing outsourcing companies, should be repulsed by the statement. This isn't about a policy of taxing outsourcing. It's about him being personally pissed off at Harley Davidson. Similarly, he wouldn't give a s#!t about the USPS if it wasn't for his hatred or Bezos. It's not okay for the president to say things like this, and the possibility he might actually try it is something people should be concerned about.

 

 

Again...it makes me sick defending Trump.

 

But, nothing in that statement makes me believe that he's only going to tax the crap out of HD.  In fact, he has said repeatedly ever since he got elected (of before) that companies who sport jobs should be taxed heavily.

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8 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Again...it makes me sick defending Trump.

 

But, nothing in that statement makes me believe that he's only going to tax the crap out of HD.  In fact, he has said repeatedly ever since he got elected (of before) that companies who sport jobs should be taxed heavily.

 

 

I guess you're not defending Trump if you just read the tweet differently. But it seems obvious to me from his past behavior with Amazon, and just his vindictive nature in general, that he's suggesting just HD get taxed as punishment. There isn't a way for him to do so right now, but he would do it if he could and find his desire to do things like this scary.

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41 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

 

I think lots of countries will do this. We're forcing them to find out if they can do fine without us by making agreements with other countries. Meanwhile we're picking fights with everyone and going it alone. If they find out they're doing fine without us, why start up again with a country that might election another idiot?

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18 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

I think lots of countries will do this. We're forcing them to find out if they can do fine without us by making agreements with other countries. Meanwhile we're picking fights with everyone and going it alone. If they find out they're doing fine without us, why start up again with a country that might election another idiot?

They will not ultimately be fine without us.

 

The U.S. is too large of a consumer of global goods.

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3 minutes ago, TheSker said:

They will not ultimately be fine without us.

 

The U.S. is too large of a consumer of global goods.

 

 

I'm not suggesting they'll end all trade with the U.S.  But they're being forced right now to find other opportunities, and some of those might stick.

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8 minutes ago, TheSker said:

They will not ultimately be fine without us.

 

The U.S. is too large of a consumer of global goods.

Except these retaliatory tariffs are on what we "export".  Not only will businesses be forced to outsource or close shop, American consumers will continue to buy foreign goods at inflated prices because of our President.

 

I just don't think the possible benefits are anywhere worth the risks Trump is taking.  

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28 minutes ago, funhusker said:

Except these retaliatory tariffs are on what we "export".  Not only will businesses be forced to outsource or close shop, American consumers will continue to buy foreign goods at inflated prices because of our President.

 

I just don't think the possible benefits are anywhere worth the risks Trump is taking.  

I understand the retaliatory tariffs are on what we export.

 

But at least give a moment's thought that the U.S. is a big enough consumer that some producing countries are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

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Ask wheat farmers how that worked back in, I think, the 70s when wheat was used as a negotiating tool.  Countries went elsewhere for their wheat and the American market hasn't really been the same since.

1 hour ago, TheSker said:

They will not ultimately be fine without us.

 

The U.S. is too large of a consumer of global goods.

 

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1 hour ago, TheSker said:

I understand the retaliatory tariffs are on what we export.

 

But at least give a moment's thought that the U.S. is a big enough consumer that some producing countries are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

The problem isn't that all tariffs are bad or that we shouldn't be making changes to how we trade with some of our partners, but rather that there isn't a lot of long-term thinking going into any of this. Trump is just shooting from the hip and being more reactionary than well thought-out. If Trump and team came out with some semblance of a plan and how that plays out into the future, then they'd at least be worth listening to instead of the trade war via twitter we have now.

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2 hours ago, TheSker said:

I understand the retaliatory tariffs are on what we export.

 

But at least give a moment's thought that the U.S. is a big enough consumer that some producing countries are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

I have. That’s why I think this self imposed penalty on those goods is dumb.  If we don’t produce enough of a good to supply all the demand of US consumers, we shouldn’t impose a tariff on that good.

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2 hours ago, TheSker said:

I understand the retaliatory tariffs are on what we export.

 

But at least give a moment's thought that the U.S. is a big enough consumer that some producing countries are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

Other countries making money is not a bad thing.

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21 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Other countries making money is not a bad thing.

Not even remotely the point.......

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1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

The problem isn't that all tariffs are bad or that we shouldn't be making changes to how we trade with some of our partners, but rather that there isn't a lot of long-term thinking going into any of this. Trump is just shooting from the hip and being more reactionary than well thought-out. If Trump and team came out with some semblance of a plan and how that plays out into the future, then they'd at least be worth listening to instead of the trade war via twitter we have now.

I agree.  I wouldn't be surprised to see continuing modifications or exceptions.

 

Trump is accomplishing some things from his election agenda.

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10 minutes ago, TheSker said:

I agree.  I wouldn't be surprised to see continuing modifications or exceptions.

 

Trump is accomplishing some things from his election agenda.

This is true.

 

And we are also seeing the damage and confusion that that election agenda can cause.  Just because he's "accomplishing" things doesn't make the pundits that warned of this wrong.

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13 minutes ago, funhusker said:

This is true.

 

And we are also seeing the damage and confusion that that election agenda can cause.  Just because he's "accomplishing" things doesn't make the pundits that warned of this wrong.

Whether the "pundits" are right or wrong is correlated to whether they agree with the policies.

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24 minutes ago, TheSker said:

Whether the "pundits" are right or wrong is correlated to whether they agree with the policies.

No, it isn't.

 

MSNBC is reporting that Harley Davidson is moving some manufacturing overseas.

FoxNews is reporting the same thing.

 

Steel is more expensive now no matter how it is reported. BRB has kept an eye on grain prices, that is consistent through media outlets.  Lumber has gone up.  These are facts, they are not at the mercy of political opinion.  We may disagree if it is good or bad, but I think a lot of Trump voters scoffed at the idea of Trump's trade policies costing Americans jobs and money even though there were warnings.  Right now, it is costing us money and jobs.

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24 minutes ago, TheSker said:

Whether the "pundits" are right or wrong is correlated to whether they agree with the policies.

Ummm....no. 

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11 minutes ago, funhusker said:

No, it isn't.

 

MSNBC is reporting that Harley Davidson is moving some manufacturing overseas.

FoxNews is reporting the same thing.

 

Steel is more expensive now no matter how it is reported. BRB has kept an eye on grain prices, that is consistent through media outlets.  Lumber has gone up.  These are facts, they are not at the mercy of political opinion.  We may disagree if it is good or bad, but I think a lot of Trump voters scoffed at the idea of Trump's trade policies costing Americans jobs and money even though there were warnings.  Right now, it is costing us money and jobs.

So companies moving some jobs overseas is new and unique to the Trump administration?

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3 minutes ago, TheSker said:

So companies moving some jobs overseas is new and unique to the Trump administration?

A blue blood American company that Trump referenced multiple times on the campaign trail (and while in office) that he will help make "great again", that has publicly stated the decision to move was because of the tariffs, yes.

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5 minutes ago, TheSker said:

So companies moving some jobs overseas is new and unique to the Trump administration?

No it’s not new. But when some pundits say the tariffs will cause a loss of jobs and some don’t. One side is right and one is wrong. 

 

It it has nothing to do with if they originally agreed with the policy. 

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7 minutes ago, funhusker said:

A blue blood American company that Trump referenced multiple times on the campaign trail (and while in office) that he will help make "great again", that has publicly stated the decision to move was because of the tariffs, yes.

Yeah, I can agree with that point.

 

It also may turn out to be a bad decision by HD.....

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Just now, TheSker said:

Yeah, I can agree with that point.

 

It also may turn out to be a bad decision by HD.....

 

 

I'm sure they knew there might be backlash. They probably feel there wasn't a choice. Or maybe they wanted to do it all along and this was a good excuse.

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why is it bad for HD to some move production to Europe but its ok for the trumps to have so much stuff made in china?

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8 minutes ago, TheSker said:

Yeah, I can agree with that point.

 

It also may turn out to be a bad decision by HD.....

+1

 

And if HD suffers, then you were right.  Even if we disagree on whether tariffs are good or bad for America.

 

Which brings us back to the point, many pundits that warned of this were right :)

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1 minute ago, funhusker said:

+1

 

And if HD suffers, then you were right.  Even if we disagree on whether tariffs are good or bad for America.

 

Which brings us back to the point, many pundits that warned of this were right :)

If it were happening in mass, I might be inclined to agree.  But it's not and the economy remains strong.

 

The tariffs are too new to know consequences.  And if the consequences are severe, Trump will be one and done.

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Quote

Polaris Industries considers moving output overseas

A Minnesota-based company says it's considering moving production of some motorcycles out of the country because of European tariffs, just days after Harley-Davidson announced a similar move.
   
A spokeswoman for Polaris Industries acknowledged Friday the company could move some production of its Indian brand of motorcycles from northwest Iowa to Poland.
   
Spokeswoman Jess Rogers noted "nothing is definitive. We're looking at a range of mitigation plans."

http://www.ktiv.com/story/38544542/2018/06/29/polaris-industries-considers-moving-output-overseas

 

 

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27 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Soybeans hit a 10 year low today with really no reason to change directions.

 

historical.png?s=S%201&v=20180711184000&

 

 

It almost hit a 10 year low in 2016, but I imagine it's going to keep going down this time.

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40 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Soybeans hit a 10 year low today with really no reason to change directions.

 

historical.png?s=S%201&v=20180711184000&

thanks donnie

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48 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Soybeans hit a 10 year low today with really no reason to change directions.

 

historical.png?s=S%201&v=20180711184000&

Brazil will out produce the US in soybeans for the first time this year.

 

Brazilian transportation infrastructure and product quality has made this possible.

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3 minutes ago, TheSker said:

Brazil will out produce the US in soybeans for the first time this year.

 

Brazilian transportation infrastructure and product quality has made this possible.

perfect timing to start a trade war then.   brilliant!!!

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Do you know the one sector that's totally thriving right now? More jobs and careers than they can fill for years to come?

 

Healthcare.

 

That's great for the job numbers, but it doesn't take much digging to see how the flow of money into healthcare, the weakening of more productive sectors, and the gutting of medicare and medicaid could create a really ugly scenario. 

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8 minutes ago, TheSker said:

Brazil will out produce the US in soybeans for the first time this year.

 

Brazilian transportation infrastructure and product quality has made this possible.

So....you’re saying that these countries will simply have another country to buy from .....this either screwing the American farmer or we spend billions propping our farmers up....or probably both. 

 

Such a graat tactic. 

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3 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Do you know the one sector that's totally thriving right now? More jobs and careers than they can fill for years to come?

 

Healthcare.

 

That's great for the job numbers, but it doesn't take much digging to see how the flow of money into healthcare, the weakening of more productive sectors, and the gutting of medicare and medicaid could create a really ugly scenario. 

Just thinking out loud, but healthcare is one of the issues that I wonder if the real answer might be tort reform.

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1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

So....you’re saying that these countries will simply have another country to buy from .....this either screwing the American farmer or we spend billions propping our farmers up....or probably both. 

 

Such a graat tactic. 

China has been increasing their Brazilian soybean imports for almost a decade.

 

Tariff issues aside.....there's always a market for the best product.  And Brazilian soybeans are considered the world's best.

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this trade war is really helping brazil.  they are buying our soybeans at reduced prices and selling them for a premium...to china.   

 

 

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5 hours ago, TheSker said:

Just thinking out loud, but healthcare is one of the issues that I wonder if the real answer might be tort reform.

 

This is as good of an explanation as I've heard about the real problem:

 

 

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On 7/11/2018 at 11:05 PM, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

This is as good of an explanation as I've heard about the real problem:

 

 

Very good video and it spells out as to why I (as typically a fiscal conservative) I am willing to listen and consider a single payer plan.

 

a)  Countries with single payer plans have more negotiation power with costs.

 

b)  It is virtually impossible for you to negotiate effectively on something to save your life.

 

c)  Hmmm....wonder why Medicare pays less then the rest of us???

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