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3 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

...we've got a number of families in our small Missouri community. So I've had that interaction to a point. Be part of the solution? Hard to do here.

 

 

Go tell those families that you think black people (as a whole) have a problem with laziness, playing the victim and entitlements. See how they respond. 

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It's not a ridiculous point. 

 

It's a plainly ludicrous point, but I'm glad that we can outline where it is we disagree. Getting tangential, but I look forward to carrying on this aspect of the conversation in the future. Point, counter-point, etc.

 

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Once again, you're generalizing me with media's narrative of what the "white man thinks".

 

Actually, I took care not to apply that paragraph -- a description of a meaningful trend (ref: Oval Office, present day) -- to you specifically. Some of it clearly does, by your own words, and some of it doesn't. I'm glad for the parts that doesn't and curious about how you justify the parts that do alongside your condemnation of the rest of it. Like, where does your condemnation of e.g. #AllLivesMatter even come from, if #BlackLivesMatter is an issue? It seems quite inconsistent.

 

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you have no sympathy for those people yourself.

 

That's not the case. What I have no sympathy for is people who use this bit of what-about-ism to fiercely oppose social programs that tend to benefit people of color. Which is a big picture description of how people look at different sorts of social programs; colored by racist (but cleverly coded) narratives. I think we do agree in this area, at least in principles if not in effect. And that is why I do enjoy discussing with you, because we plainly share common ground in principles, so I think there's a lot of agreement to potentially build here.

 

Thank you for the discussion as well, as always!

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1 hour ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Here's the link.

 

http://archive.samhsa.gov/data/NSDUH/2012SummNatFindDetTables/DetTabs/NSDUH-DetTabsSect1peTabs1to46-2012.htm#Tab1.1A

 

There's that excuse again "it's due to an exponentially higher arrest rate". You can (and I will) acknowledge that that is most definitely an issue. However, it doesn't excuse him of his responsibility. 

 

The "poor problem" is an excuse just the same. You're poor, so that excuses you (black or white) to use drugs and risk tearing apart your family and ruining their lives? Nope. I have an Aunt that used drugs while pregnant with all three of her kids. Those kids were greatly effected by that. As adults now, You can still see it. So **** her, and **** that excuse.


The point of me saying it's a poor problem is that it's not a Black culture problem. It wasn't used as an excuse for anything.


Your link did not say anything about Blacks using drugs at a higher rate. Not even close. It showed that Blacks are slightly less likely to use drugs in their lifetime, and slightly (but not significantly) more likely to have used drugs in the past month.

The arrest rate mention was not an excuse - it is the reason why you think there's a "Black culture problem" and not a "White culture problem." Blacks and Whites do drugs at the same (statistically speaking) rate. Yet White people don't usually go to jail for it, they get to stay home with their kids if they have them. It is likely the most important cause, by a long shot, for the so-called "Black culture problem." Just like it would be the cause for a "White culture problem" if the arrest rate was similar. Blacks are just arrested FAR more often for doing the same s#!t at the same rate every other race does. The incarceration rate for drugs (50% of the time for marijuana!) is a huge reason there are a lot more single Black mothers.
 

marijuana_arrest_rates_by_race_year.png

 

drug_use_and_arrests.0.png

 

^ this last graph is just for the past month but it goes in step with every other thing I've seen on it.


My brother got arrested for marijuana possession once and didn't have much of anything happen to him - he has a great job and a wife and family now. There are definitely Black men out there who do the same exact thing at the same age and get long sentences in jail.

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Be part of the solution? Hard to do here.

 

Closing thought for the day:
This is actually very easy to do from anywhere, especially because the burden is on no one person (hence, "part of").
 
The things we say, the things we channel, the things we choose to accept and not accept, and how we shape the views of the people around us -- all of that matters a great deal.
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Black father goes to prison for marijuana.

 

Leaves behind a son without a father, and a wife without financial support.

 

Wife sends the son to live with a relative because she can't support him.

 

Relative is stretched thin and inattentive.

 

Gang offers the impressionable son attention, respect, safety, and support. First 'family' that's ever been there.

 

The son gets indoctrinated into gang culture. 

 

Gets a girl pregnant. They live in poverty so there's not as much access to contraceptives, abortion clinics, etc.

 

He gets falsely and wrongly accused of murder because of gang affiliation and locked up. Pleads guilty, can't ever get a job or handouts ever again. Loses his son, who grows up without a father.

 

Rinse. Wash. Repeat.

 

Starts as a victim, becomes part of the problem, but I wonder what you expect to come out of the hand that's dealt. People born into this cycle of poverty (people I know by name to be hard working, honest, kind and determined) have their chances at a good life decided by, essentially, a random draw of cards from a stacked deck. Then we, who were fortunate enough to have the privilege of being born into stability and safety, have the audacity to tell them that most of them are lazy/entitled/playing the victim, and they should be more like us, because we have more than they do, even though they've worked twice as hard with nothing to show for it.

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8 minutes ago, Landlord said:

Black father goes to prison for marijuana.

 

Leaves behind a son without a father, and a wife without financial support.

 

Wife sends the son to live with a relative because she can't support him.

 

Relative is stretched thin and inattentive.

 

Gang offers the impressionable son attention, respect, safety, and support. First 'family' that's ever been there.

 

The son gets indoctrinated into gang culture. 

 

Gets a girl pregnant. They live in poverty so there's not as much access to contraceptives, abortion clinics, etc.

 

He gets falsely and wrongly accused of murder because of gang affiliation and locked up. Pleads guilty, can't ever get a job or handouts ever again. Loses his son, who grows up without a father.

 

Rinse. Wash. Repeat.

 

Starts as a victim, becomes part of the problem, but I wonder what you expect to come out of the hand that's dealt. People born into this cycle of poverty (people I know by name to be hard working, honest, kind and determined) have their chances at a good life decided by, essentially, a random draw of cards from a stacked deck. Then we, who were fortunate enough to have the privilege of being born into stability and safety, have the audacity to tell them that most of them are lazy/entitled/playing the victim, and they should be more like us, because we have more than they do, even though they've worked twice as hard with nothing to show for it.

 

 

 

Just to repeat it in case it gets ignored - the start of the story was my brother - minus the arrest part. And honestly, the story of lots of young White kids. But they are much more likely to get a slap on the wrist. Many Black men go to jail for minor marijuana possession. Just think about that. Everyone here has likely smoked pot or knows someone who has smoked pot.

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The start of the story was my dad minus the arrest part (at least when I was in my mom's belly) as well. Except with cocaine. And except that she left him and had a support system in the form of her stable/successful/present aunts and uncles to help (a black child in the same situation has a much higher chance of family being estranged, poor, or broken).

 

We lived in projects and off food stamps while I was a baby because my mom was still waiting tables, but she was able to go to college (insert stats about black college graduates being able to get the same level of jobs as white high school dropouts, as well as lower admission rates for equally qualified applicants with black sounding names) for an associates to get a better, legitimate job (again, insert stat about hiring discrepancies based on what race your name sounds) that could provide for us. 

 

 

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