Las Vegas mass shooting

[BigRedBuster]

4 minutes ago, zoogs said:

To add to the Sandy Hook comments: 

 

 

 

 

Oh...come on.....everyone knows Sandy Hook was a hoax staged by the government to further an agenda to send black helicopters to take all our guns away so they can destroy everything good in America.

[zoogs]

Part of life. Part of biz.

 

 

[FrantzHardySwag]

19 minutes ago, zoogs said:

To add to the Sandy Hook comments: 

 

 

 

This...A guy walked into a classroom and killed 20 children. And as a country we made zero changes. I guess we need to get used to this as a country? This is what we are now. This is back to back years we've had the largest mass shooting in US history (Orlando 2016). Also the top 4 largest mass shootings in US history have happened in the last 10 years. Probably a trend that won't change.

[Enhance]

I see @BigRedBuster's point even though my initial reaction was 'really? are we really getting bogged down in what was implied?' It may seem trivial to differentiate the minutiae of what's said and not said, but this is one of those public policy/safety issues where attention to detail is pretty important.

[Fru]

2 hours ago, NM11046 said:

Fru - hope you get good news.

BRB - you're not.  I expect he will stick close to the monitor for this one, but he can't help be repeat and emphasize some words (I'm betting "coward", "loser" etc)

 

I thought after the senate softball game there would be change, then a hundred things would make NRA zombies open their eyes.  What will it take?

 

 

 

Thank you. Heard back and he's safe. 

[Danny Bateman]

5 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

This...A guy walked into a classroom and killed 20 children. And as a country we made zero changes. I guess we need to get used to this as a country? This is what we are now. This is back to back years we've had the largest mass shooting in US history (Orlando 2016). Also the top 4 largest mass shootings in US history have happened in the last 10 years. Probably a trend that won't change.

 

This ought to be required reading for this debate:

 

How the NRA Rewrote the Second Amendment

 

TL;DR: The NRA grew out of the Union Army and spent many, many years in courts shifting the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment from applying to arming militias for protection of states to the individual right to own a gun. It looks lots of money, lots of planning & the ability to fight in both challenge gun control measures in courts as well as shifting public opinion at the same time. Any attempt to change the judicial interpretation of the 2A will likely require a similar effort.

[knapplc]

I'm pretty sure this has been posted before during one of our other mass shootings, but The Onion reups this article every time this happens. 

 

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

LAS VEGAS—In the hours following a violent rampage in Las Vegas in which a lone attacker killed more than 50 individuals and seriously injured 400 others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Monday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said Iowa resident Kyle Rimmels, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep these individuals from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what they really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past eight years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”

[Enhance]

15 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

This...A guy walked into a classroom and killed 20 children. And as a country we made zero changes. I guess we need to get used to this as a country? This is what we are now. This is back to back years we've had the largest mass shooting in US history (Orlando 2016). Also the top 4 largest mass shootings in US history have happened in the last 10 years. Probably a trend that won't change.

What we need is more American citizens to pull their heads out of their asses and that's on both sides of the aisle.

 

It isn't about banning all guns or depredating the second amendment. It's literally life and death. Death is where we are right now, where we've been and where we're heading.

[zoogs]

Guy for whom gun culture is precious doing mental gymnastics to spin this his way:

Extremely obvious retort:

IMO it's entirely about the 2nd amendment. We can't invent convoluted ways to circumvent the modern day interpretation of one of the Bill of Rights to achieve our ends. We can, and should, either revise that interpretation or update the Constitution accordingly.

[Kiyoat Husker]

I think the only long-lasting effective solution to people waking up on gun control is the same thing that will stop special interest on any topic:

 

education.

 

we keep allowing special interest propaganda to work because we are not well-informed consumers of news and information.  Especially older Americans as it relates to the internet.

 

Tele-marketers and door-to-door salesmen are well aware of the gullibility and trusting nature of our older Americans.  Encyclopedias, Kirby vacuums, Lawn care services, etc.  Fake news targets those that are receptive to it.

[Enhance]

4 minutes ago, unlfan said:

 

But to be clear, this IS about banning a lot of guns that are currently legal. There is absolutely no legitimate reason that semiautomatic and automatic weapons should be legal in any way.

 

The only guns that should be legal are single load rifles, shotguns and pistols.

 

I've mentioned it in the Gun Control thread in this forum, but I like UK's approach to gun control as a possible solution to the problem. I've copied and pasted what I put in there.

 

On 6/15/2017 at 8:24 AM, Enhance said:

For some time now, I've been a fan of investigating and potentially implementing some of the UK's approach to gun control.

 

1) "Good reason" to own a firearm certificate

2) Declare all criminal convictions

3) Two (one in some places) references to support the application

 

Each of these requirements include several hurdles and legalities that must be met. Unfortunately, number one is the most substantial piece of the puzzle and also the least likely to happen in the U.S. because of the 2nd Amendment. But, numbers two and three could certainly be hashed out in further detail. Number three is of particular interest because there are a variety of limitations as to who can be a referee for you, which include that person being of "good character" and comes with its own list of qualifications.

 

On top of this, they have a wide variety of bans on most types of firearms.

[I AM FOOT FOOT]

11 minutes ago, unlfan said:

 

But to be clear, this IS about banning a lot of guns that are currently legal. There is absolutely no legitimate reason that semiautomatic and automatic weapons should be legal in any way.

 

The only guns that should be legal are single load rifles, shotguns and pistols.

And how do we get every auto -pump -revolver and lever action gun off the streets? It's beyond possible at this point.

[BIG ERN]

22 minutes ago, man eating mastodon said:

And how do we get every auto -pump -revolver and lever action gun off the streets? It's beyond possible at this point.

 

We have a large data base of all 'legal' assault rifle gun owners. Start there. Then through murders, drug busts etc. slowly take control of these guns. I agree though that it is very hard and would take decades to dwindle the number way down. It's at least taking meaningful action IMO 

[TGHusker]

And gun stocks rally. Gun companies make more money because more people buy more after mass shootings believing that restrictions are on there way.

Kind of a sicko societal response if you ask me. 

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/todays-charts-gun-stocks-rally-gm-shares-climb-hpe-let-russia-review-cyber-defense-software-161238531.html

 

Gun stocks rose following the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history Sunday night. At least 58 people were killed and more than 500 were injured after a man opened fire into a crowd at an outdoor concert in Las Vegas. Shares of Sturm Ruger (RGR) and American Outdoor Brands (AOBC), the parent company of Smith & Wesson, were up in midday trading on Monday. Gun stocks tend to get a boost following mass shootings because investors believe they will lead to tighter gun control, which in turn prompts gun users to buy more firearms before regulations change.

[knapplc]

27 minutes ago, man eating mastodon said:

And how do we get every auto -pump -revolver and lever action gun off the streets? It's beyond possible at this point.

 

It would take a societal change, one that I don't think will happen without some awful trauma.

 

For Australia, it was a mass shooting. Just one.  They all collectively realized that guns weren't worth it, and with the support of the citizens they enacted tough gun control.

 

America is not yet mature enough as a society to do this.