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Huskers44

Lack of talent

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Huskers44    86

I’m going to say this, my opinion is Nebraska lacks talent. Their best player last season couldn’t make an NFL practice squad. Who on this team is an elite difference maker that you can rely on? We have no one. Look at years past we had Abdullah, David, Amukamara, Dennard, Compton, Helu, Suh, heck even Martinez. This team lacks talent so much. Maybe our young guys might be a great player, but right now I think we are far from coaching. (Even though I think this staff isn’t great by any means) could Coach Bo win with these players?

Lastly, is Nebraska getting worse, or is the rest of the conference just getting better? Or both? I think the conference is definitely getting better. 

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Saunders    5,867

How many times are we going to bring up this narrative?

 

We are getting more raw talent than anyone else in our division. We aren't developing and coaching it, and that's why we're losing.

 

The end.

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teachercd    2,778
3 minutes ago, Saunders said:

How many times are we going to bring up this narrative?

 

We are getting more raw talent than anyone else in our division. We aren't developing and coaching it, and that's why we're losing.

 

The end.

I am thinking this is the new "toxins" right?

I guess this means that there are not many excuses left, right?  If Riley wasn't nice and friendly and personable these excuses would all be gone by now.  We have used up the...

 

New offense

Wait for the statue qb

New defense

Toxins

Texts from former coaches (or was that under toxins)

Now it is recruiting rankings

 

By my count...that is all of them!

 

Could it be that a guy who has coached like 150 games and is around .500 is just that...

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gobiggergoredder    1,129
4 hours ago, southernoregonhusker said:

Sorry, but the recruiting services aren't God.  Anybody with eyes can see we lack talent.  The fact that half of our starters didn't receive any other D1 offers says it all.  

I'm not going to look this up, but half of the starters?  I don't see how this is even close to possible.

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Saunders    5,867
17 minutes ago, gobiggergoredder said:

I'm not going to look this up, but half of the starters?  I don't see how this is even close to possible.

He's hyperbolizing the tweet that some random guy put out that @knapplc started a thread on.

 

 

 

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lo country    1,969

We have the talent. We do not have the staff to maximize said talent.......Recruiting service are not perfect, but when one looks at the totality of the composites, NU is higher than any team in the West and generally would be considered the 4th best in the East......That's coaching.  Look at the play calling by Langs, the defensive fronts of Diaco....That's poor coaching.  Look at the improvements on OL due to replacements because of injuries...That's coaching.

 

Do people really think a coach who can't even manage the clock after 40 years of coaching is really going to be able to maximize talent.....Remember when people said he would be able to do so much more with more talent, facilities, etc.......Well the proof is currently in the pudding that he hasn't and isn't going to get NU where it wants to be.  That's coaching....

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teachercd    2,778
27 minutes ago, lo country said:

We have the talent. We do not have the staff to maximize said talent.......Recruiting service are not perfect, but when one looks at the totality of the composites, NU is higher than any team in the West and generally would be considered the 4th best in the East......That's coaching.  Look at the play calling by Langs, the defensive fronts of Diaco....That's poor coaching.  Look at the improvements on OL due to replacements because of injuries...That's coaching.

 

Do people really think a coach who can't even manage the clock after 40 years of coaching is really going to be able to maximize talent.....Remember when people said he would be able to do so much more with more talent, facilities, etc.......Well the proof is currently in the pudding that he hasn't and isn't going to get NU where it wants to be.  That's coaching....

Agreed!

 

It is not a slam to call a coach average.  They keep records and it is easy to see who is average and that is what Riley is.  The real issue is not that Riley is average as a coach it is that for the longest time "experts" wanted to jock him up as this coach that was average due to his environment but that really wasn't the case.  People also liked to pretend that the 45 pound plates in Corvallis were not 45 pounds...and that they only had one squat rack...Riley isn't a bad coach he is just average.  

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Hunter94    484
1 hour ago, Saunders said:

How many times are we going to bring up this narrative?

 

We are getting more raw talent than anyone else in our division. We aren't developing and coaching it, and that's why we're losing.

 

The end.

+1

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dvdcrr    299

I have never seen this board as a whole, in such a wreck.  Every thread, a disaster, every post a speculation.  As mere fans of football, the sensible among us must admit, that we know little about how to right this ship.  We are amateurs after all.    Nor do we know when or if it will be righted.  

All we know is that we live to fight another day.  And though the outcome is in doubt, fight we must!

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Isle of View    174
6 hours ago, southernoregonhusker said:

Sorry, but the recruiting services aren't God.  Anybody with eyes can see we lack talent.  The fact that half of our starters didn't receive any other D1 offers says it all.  

Now you're just making stuff up.  I heard that Riley makes the players chug 6 shots of Fireball before every practice.  That's just as true as your claim.

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BIG ERN    865

I don't think it's hard to get a class that is #25-#30. It takes like four 4:star players is all. We aren't on the same planet as the top three consistent teams the past 5 years, but we are better than teams in the West - this is why we need to be competing for the West every single year. 

 

I do think the lack of 'next level' players has been an issue though in the recent past. Next level meaning athleticism/measurables mixed with a little bit of IT factor coming out of HS. I thought that the 17' class had 3 NL with 3 others who have high potential to be good college players. DT looks to be the breakout 3* at this point, but it's early. 

 

NL

Guy Thomas

Damion Daniels 

Tyjon Lindsey 

---------------------------------------- 

Jaevon McQuitty 

Tristan Gebbia 

Avery Roberts

 

As much as I liked our 17' class, let's take a look at the top 5 B10 teams in terms of recent year's W/L's....Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State have a large advantage going forward while Wisconsin and Michigan State continue to out kick their recruiting. 

 

2017

Ohio State: (6) 5:star (11) 4:star

Michigan (3) 5:star (16) 4:star

Penn State (1) 5:star (10) 4:star

Wisconsin (5) 4:star

Michigan State (4) 4:star

---------------------------------------------------

Nebraska (7) 4:star

 

This shows me that we aren't coaching these kids up, or aren't recruiting to fit the scheme and needs of the team, but just trying to get talent and hoping they pan out. ---Three positions I think we lack soooo bad at are LB, TE, and OT. You need good LB play if you want to ever beat Wisconsin. 

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NUinID    643

In some very important areas Nebraska does lack talent.  

 

Nebraska lacks talent at RB.  They have decent backs, but they don't have anyone on their roster that looks like Barkley,  Johnathan Taylor, Watley or any of the backs at OSU.  We haven't had a back that can just run away from people for a long time.  Even Ameer Abdullah didn't have that speed.  Look at Johnathan Taylor that kid is a freshman and is the 4th leading rusher in the nation right now.  Yeah he has a great line to run behind, but Ozigbo, Bryant, or Wilbon is not breaking through the LOS and running 75 yards for a TD like he did.  

 

Nebraska lacks talent at TE.  I am not even talking about catching footballs.  I am talking about blocking.  I lot of what NU wants to do in the run game is very dependent on good TE blocking and we don't get that a lot of the time.  Troy Fumagali is not just a great pass catching TE he is also a great blocking TE.  Iowa, Michigan, MSU, PSU, OSU, Wisconsin, all have great TE.  Nebraska could benefit greatly from an Aaron Golladay or Mark Gilman type TE right now that could block first and then catch.  

 

Nebraska Lacks talent at the offensive tackle spot.  Everyone they have playing would make a great guard.  They are short on true tackles.  That is why you have a true freshman playing at RT right now.  Unlike most of you guys I think the O-line is very steadily getting better.  They played way better against Wisconsin than I expected.  

 

NU lacks talent at the OLB spot.  I think Gifford is good and will be even better next year.  I think Ben Stille will be pretty good, but he is a RS frosh that just switched positions.  But after that they are lacking badly.  I have never thought Marcus Newby was ever that good.  Sedrick King?,  Adams?  

 

They lack talent at CB which is a surprise.  They have missed on guys.  Eric Lee and Avery Anderson were both 4* guys that were suppose to be real good.  Lee is playing out of a lack of anyone else were is Anderson?  Haven't heard a peep out of them.  

 

The talent at these positions is nothing better than average for a team like Nebraska. 

 

Part of the problem is the overall lack of talent at these spots from the state of Nebraska.  Nebraska always used to have at least 1 good RB from Nebraska on the roster.  Forever Central out of Omaha produced a great back.  Heck Damon Benning, Clinton Childs, and Ahman Green were all from Nebraska and all on the roster at the same time.  Calvin Jones, Kieth Jones, Leodis Flowers, Ken Clark all these guys were from Nebraska.  Who is the last great back from Nebraska?  

 

Nebraska has some good talent at spots they have good talent at QB, inside backer, D-line, safety,  and WR they just need more.  

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Huskers44    86

So I guess we have some guys like Abdullah, Suh, David, and others on this team. I call BS. We don’t have one player on this team worthy of being drafted inside round 6. How many of our players start at Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama? I’d hope maybe 1. 

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Husker2019    381
2 hours ago, dvdcrr said:

I have never seen this board as a whole, in such a wreck.  Every thread, a disaster, every post a speculation.  As mere fans of football, the sensible among us must admit, that we know little about how to right this ship.  We are amateurs after all.    Nor do we know when or if it will be righted.  

All we know is that we live to fight another day.  And though the outcome is in doubt, fight we must!

It's the same damn thing post after post

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InOmaha    63

We have enough talent to turn Arkansas State and Northern Illinois into paste on the field.  We struggled with one and lost to the other; both at home.

 

I don't think our talent level is equal to or below Sun Belt and MAC talent levels.  If it is, that's still Riley's fault.

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Saunders    5,867
1 hour ago, Huskers44 said:

So I guess we have some guys like Abdullah, Suh, David, and others on this team. I call BS. We don’t have one player on this team worthy of being drafted inside round 6. How many of our players start at Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama? I’d hope maybe 1. 

What about Wisconsin?

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Saunders    5,867

And, and for the the "where's the Suh on this team" argument?

 

This was Suh in 2007, with bad coaching:

uschole1.jpg

 

This was suh in 2009 with good coaching:

2009-game-5-photo.jpg

 

I rest my case.

giphy.gif

 

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knapplc    17,813

I'm good with guys like:

 

POB, Gebbia

Morgan, Lindsey, Spielman, Pierson-El, McQuitty

Ozigbo, Bryant, Bradley, Mazour(if he ever sees the field)

Jaimes, Farmer, Foster, Gates, Farniok, Raridon, Decker

 

Thomas, Davis, Davis, Neal, Jackson, Stoltenberg (kinda)

Roberts, Gifford, Alexander, Stille, Barry, Ferguson & Weber

Reed, Bootle, Williams, Dismuke, Domann, Anderson, Jackson, Lee, Jones, Kalu, Williams & Jackson

 

Drew Brown, Lightbourn, Ober

 

Give a good coaching staff that team and they'll beat most teams on our schedule this year. 

 

It's not a lack of talent. It's coaching.  We need a better system on both sides of the ball and we need a better mentality from both staff & players.

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Saunders    5,867
Just now, knapplc said:

I'm good with guys like:

 

POB, Gebbia

Morgan, Lindsey, Spielman, Pierson-El, McQuitty

Ozigbo, Bryant, Bradley, Mazour(if he ever sees the field)

Jaimes, Farmer, Foster, Gates, Farniok, Raridon, Decker

 

Thomas, Davis, Davis, Neal, Jackson, Stoltenberg (kinda)

Roberts, Gifford, Alexander, Stille, Barry, Ferguson & Weber

Reed, Bootle, Williams, Dismuke, Domann, Anderson, Jackson, Lee, Jones, Kalu, Williams & Jackson

 

Drew Brown, Lightbourn, Ober

 

Give a good coaching staff that team and they'll beat most teams on our schedule this year. 

 

It's not a lack of talent. It's coaching.  We need a better system on both sides of the ball and we need a better mentality from both staff & players.

Bingo. Everybody wants more talent. Hell, even Bama has had holes that they needed to fill with transfers and Juco's.

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knapplc    17,813

Yep. No such thing as too much talent, you can always add more.

 

But we have enough talent to be a good team. This excuse just doesn't hold water.

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BigRedBuster    7,305

I have said for a long time that Nebraska has enough talent on this team to dominate smaller programs and be competitive with the best programs.  The mentality of the team is not right.  Ultimately, that needs to be instilled in younger players from older players.  This is exactly what players from the 90s have been talking about for a long time.  Now, the problem is, the older players don't have that mentality either.....so.....it needs to be instilled in them from the staff.  And...they are failing at doing that.

 

I'm still haunted by a quote from one of our players last week, prior to the Wisconsin game.  Paraphrasing, they said, "Now is the time to step up our game because we are playing Wisconsin this week".

My reaction was....WTF????  You should have stepped up your game about June 1st preparing for this season and had a take no prisoners mentality in the first 5 games.  If you had, we wouldn't have been sitting here with two losses and barely beating teams like Arkansas State.

 

Lots of fans get tired of hearing people like Jason Peter talk about their whole attitude towards practice and games back in the 90s.  BUT....that's exactly what has been missing for a very long time.

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BigRedN    241

I really enjoyed reading this whole thread today.  Good stuff and perspective.

Whether you believe it's coaching or recruiting ... :bigredn: is the guy laying on the ground on his back.  :-(
 

 

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Isle of View    174
9 hours ago, southernoregonhusker said:

 Anybody with eyes can see we lack talent.  

 

No, this is a total myth.  One of the more highly propagated myths.  The eye test doesn't give you much of an idea about talent.  What the eye test gives you is a view into how a player is coached.  

 

Watch UCF.  24/7 Talent composite around #60 in the nation and they look extremely talented, because they're well coached.  Meanwhile, the Huskers have around a #26 talent composite and they look like a bunch of disinterested couch potatoes because they're poorly coached and poorly motivated.

 

When you see a good team (meaning well-coached) they all look talented.  When you see a bad team, rarely do any of them look talented.

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MichiganDad3    785
5 hours ago, Saunders said:

How many times are we going to bring up this narrative?

 

We are getting more raw talent than anyone else in our division. We aren't developing and coaching it, and that's why we're losing.

 

The end.

Yep, Billy C and Bo had the same talent. Billy had a losing season and Bo won 9 games. Suh goes from average to all world. Seven years later, Bo wins 9 games and MR has a losing season with essentially the same players.

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Isle of View    174
12 minutes ago, MichiganDad3 said:

Yep, Billy C and Bo had the same talent. Billy had a losing season and Bo won 9 games. Suh goes from average to all world. Seven years later, Bo wins 9 games and MR has a losing season with essentially the same players.

I used to think everyone had 20/20 hindsight.  But there are people who will still argue against obvious truths like you just posted because it doesn't fit their narrative.   It's fascinating.

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HuskerPowerVA    117

HS player = potential.

Potential + development = College player. 

College player + work ethic + freakish ability + football IQ = NFL.

 

Whatever "stars" a player is rated when they are 17 only accounts for line 1 of the equation and is quite subjective and at times filled with bias.

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TGHusker    1,119
15 minutes ago, Isle of View said:

 

No, this is a total myth.  One of the more highly propagated myths.  The eye test doesn't give you much of an idea about talent.  What the eye test gives you is a view into how a player is coached.  

 

Watch UCF.  24/7 Talent composite around #60 in the nation and they look extremely talented, because they're well coached.  Meanwhile, the Huskers have around a #26 talent composite and they look like a bunch of disinterested couch potatoes because they're poorly coached and poorly motivated.

 

When you see a good team (meaning well-coached) they all look talented.  When you see a bad team, rarely do any of them look talented.

Very true. Well coached teams EXECUTE.  Tom rarely had a top 10 recruiting class but when the team excecuted (which was most of the time) they looked like a machine and far more talented than the rating system suggested.  The coaching staff coached up the players (besides beefing them up in the weight room), they had a vision of what to do and confidence (and the swagger) to make it happen.  We do have talent, we aren't taking advantage of that talent wt good coaching during the week, game time adjustments, and player development.

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HuskerPowerVA    117
9 hours ago, Big Red Commie said:

We recruit around 25th, so we have the talent to be in the top 25 regularly.

 

Its on the coaches.

That is giving a very generous amount of credit to the recruit ratings process.  What you said about coaching is correct.  

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Saunders    5,867
6 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

I don't want to be a good team.  I want to be a great team.  And there is not enough talent on the current roster for that

Agreed, we can always use more. But I would also argue that Wisconsin is a borderline great (not elite) team, and they don't recruit like we do. They have a system, and play and recruit to it.

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StPaulHusker    4,545
Just now, Saunders said:

Agreed, we can always use more. But I would also argue that Wisconsin is a borderline great (not elite) team, and they don't recruit like we do.

Barry Alvarez has done an admirable job in hiring the correct HC's.  The last 4 AD's Nebraska has had didn't.

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NUinID    643
3 minutes ago, Saunders said:

Agreed, we can always use more. But I would also argue that Wisconsin is a borderline great (not elite) team, and they don't recruit like we do. They have a system, and play and recruit to it.

 

They most certainly do, talent is not always about having the most stars.  Talent is also about fitting the system.  Johnathan Taylor would not be nearly as effective in a spread type offense.  He wants to run win his shoulders parallel to the LOS.  Not laterally on some outside zone.   Wisconsin takes great athletes and turns them into other things.  There starting Rt Tackle was a QB in HS.  

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Saunders    5,867
6 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Barry Alvarez has done an admirable job in hiring the correct HC's.  The last 4 AD's Nebraska has had didn't.

Yup. Even with a complete lack of continuity, they have a cultural identity, and embrace it.

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Isle of View    174
17 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

I don't want to be a good team.  I want to be a great team.  And there is not enough talent on the current roster for that

 

Wisconsin is currently ranked over 30 spots better  than their 24/7 Talent Composite ranking.  If the Huskers were playing good enough to rank 30 points better than their 24/7 Talent Composite ranking, they would be in the NFL because they would be ranked better than #1.  

 

https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite

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Isle of View    174
8 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Barry Alvarez has done an admirable job in hiring the correct HC's.  The last 4 AD's Nebraska has had didn't.

 

Really?  Gary Anderson?  

 

Wisconsin wins because Alvarez stole the Nebraska blueprint.  

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StPaulHusker    4,545
2 minutes ago, Saunders said:

Yup. Even with a complete lack of continuity, they have a cultural identity, and embrace it.

Lack of continuity?  Other than Gary Andersen where is the lack?

Just now, Isle of View said:

 

Really?  Gary Anderson?  

 

Wisconsin wins because Alvarez stole the Nebraska blueprint.  

Gary Andersen did quite well while at Wisconsin.  

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Nebfanatic    748
1 minute ago, Isle of View said:

 

Wisconsin is currently ranked over 30 spots better  than their 24/7 Talent Composite ranking.  If the Huskers were playing good enough to rank 30 points better than their 24/7 Talent Composite ranking, they would be in the NFL because they would be ranked better than #1.  

 

https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite

It's been said the difference between recruiting 50th and 20th isn't as big of a difference as 19th to 1st is. 

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Saunders    5,867
Just now, StPaulHusker said:

Lack of continuity?  Other than Gary Andersen where is the lack?

I heard it on the ESPN podcast, so bear with me, but the stat was something like:  since like 2012, Wisconsin has had 3 coaches, 5 DC's, a boatload of assistant changes, and yet has finished ranked every year and averaged double digit wins.

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StPaulHusker    4,545
4 minutes ago, Isle of View said:

 

Wisconsin is currently ranked over 30 spots better  than their 24/7 Talent Composite ranking.  If the Huskers were playing good enough to rank 30 points better than their 24/7 Talent Composite ranking, they would be in the NFL because they would be ranked better than #1.  

 

https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite

What is your point?  We aren't great.  And we don't have the talent to be.  And that composite doesn't tell me any different.

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Isle of View    174
3 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Lack of continuity?  Other than Gary Andersen where is the lack?

Gary Andersen did quite well while at Wisconsin.  

 

He's not a great coach.  But he ran the Alvaraska blueprint.  A trained monkey probably could win 9 games at Wisconsin with Alvarez as AD.

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StPaulHusker    4,545
1 minute ago, Saunders said:

I heard it on the ESPN podcast, so bear with me, but the stat was something like:  since like 2012, Wisconsin has had 3 coaches, 5 DC's, a boatload of assistant changes, and yet has finished ranked every year and averaged double digit wins.

I know about the turnover but other than Andersen, a good portion of coaches had some tie to Wisconsin.  That would be where the continuity came in.

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Isle of View    174
1 minute ago, StPaulHusker said:

What is your point?  We aren't great.  And we don't have the talent to be.  And that composite doesn't tell me any different.

You don't think Wisconsin is great?

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StPaulHusker    4,545
1 minute ago, Isle of View said:

You don't think Wisconsin is great?

No

 

But i don't really care about Wisconsin.  I care about Nebraska.  And we have had neither the talent, coaching, or both to be great since about 2002

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