Star Wars: Episode VIII ***Speculation & Spoilers***

[Cdog923]

In terms of TLJ, I loved almost every scene that Kylo and Rey are in together. They have a fantastic dynamic that Johnson wisely played off of. I also thought Laura Dern was incredible. 

 

I do wish they would give Poe more to do, and round his character out a bit more. Oscar Isaac is a fantastic actor who could lead a standalone Star Wars movie very easily. 

[Cdog923]

58 minutes ago, Redux said:

Luke had roughly a day and a half at most getting tutelage from Obi Wan, then 2-4 days MAX training with Yoda.  And I believe it was confirmed canon thst he never went back to train further with Yoda 

 

So yeah...anyone that has gripes about Rey learing too quickly or whatever...

 

I have zero problems with how Rey is being portrayed in terms of her ability to use the Force, but to be fair, though, there's about a year inbetween Empire and Jedi for Luke to train and increase his skills.  

[Landlord]

7 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

 

I have zero problems with how Rey is being portrayed in terms of her ability to use the Force, but to be fair, though, there's about a year inbetween Empire and Jedi for Luke to train and increase his skills.  

 

 

Different books fill that time pretty fully with Luke on the frigate Redemption, hanging with Leia on Zastiga, going to Kothlis and learning about/planning the escape of Han from Jabba, and then spending some time in Kenobi's old place on Tattooine building his new lightsaber.

 

I guess what you're suggesting is still hypothetically true, but that doesn't stop Luke's character, even as a Jedi master, from being a rough around the edges, passionate, emotional self-taught Jedi.

 

[Redux]

18 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

 

I have zero problems with how Rey is being portrayed in terms of her ability to use the Force, but to be fair, though, there's about a year inbetween Empire and Jedi for Luke to train and increase his skills.  

 

Right, and that year is spent training mostly on his own.  It's only when he taps into the dark side that he is strong enough to defeat the most powerful Sith lord ever.  Rey on the other hand has no training and lights Kylo Ren up with a light saber, because he is no Sith Lord.  Kylo's power is force specific in my opinion, he's not a strong light saber user probably why his saber is a cross saber to compensate.  He is much improved in Ep.8, but still he is more of a dark force user than he is weapon wielder.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Redux

[Cdog923]

6 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Different books fill that time pretty fully with Luke on the frigate Redemption, hanging with Leia on Zastiga, going to Kothlis and learning about/planning the escape of Han from Jabba, and then spending some time in Kenobi's old place on Tattooine building his new lightsaber.

 

I guess what you're suggesting is still hypothetically true, but that doesn't stop Luke's character, even as a Jedi master, from being a rough around the edges, passionate, emotional self-taught Jedi.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Right, and that year is spent training mostly on his own.  It's only when he taps into the dark side that he is strong enough to defeat the most powerful Sith lord ever.  Rey on the other hand has no training and lights Kylo Ren up with a light saber, because he is no Sith Lord.  Kylo's power is force specific in my opinion, he's not a strong light saber user probably why his saber is a cross saber to compensate.  He is much improved in Ep.8, but still he is more of a dark force user than he is weapon wielder.

 

Did you two think I was disagreeing with you, or what?

[Redux]

No?

[Landlord]

6 minutes ago, Redux said:

Kylo's power is force specific in my opinion, he's not a strong light saber user probably why his saber is a cross saber to compensate.  

 

 

He has the cross hilt because his kyber crystal is cracked, and there's a whole bunch of extra heat/energy coming out of it that needed to be vented or it would explode.

[Redux]

Just now, Landlord said:

 

 

He has the cross hilt because his kyber crystal is cracked, and there's a whole bunch of extra heat/energy coming out of it that needed to be vented or it would explode.

 

And because it looks cool

[zoogs]

6 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Right, and that year is spent training mostly on his own.  It's only when he taps into the dark side that he is strong enough to defeat the most powerful Sith lord ever.  Rey on the other hand has no training and lights Kylo Ren up with a light saber, because he is no Sith Lord.  Kylo's power is force specific in my opinion, he's not a strong light saber user probably why his saber is a cross saber to compensate.  He is much improved in Ep.8, but still he is more of a dark force user than he is weapon wielder.

 

I like to think of Rey and Kylo both as pretty raw and learning, and Kylo being a lot less competent than Rey in general. He's been focused on all the wrong things (image, for one...) and assuming he is entitled to greatness. He simply assumes that Rey, descended from nobody, will decide she has to join him in order to find value and meaning in her own life. He's a Skywalker throwing away things that he was never automatically entitled to, and Rey is earning them.

[knapplc]

Some of you won't like reading this critique, but it's pretty bullet-proof.

 

LINK

 

Quote

BOSTON—Expressing frustration at the science fiction franchise’s repeated failure to deliver on their expectations, die-hard fans of Star Wars character Nien Nunb were once again disappointed by new film The Last Jedi, sources confirmed Thursday. “Christ, I came into Episode VIII thinking they’d at least delve deeper into his backstory as a Sullustan arms dealer, but mostly he’s just a blurry extra standing in the background,” said local fan Benjamin Waller, adding that it was an insult to devoted Nien Nunb fans for the movie’s creators to only include the alien pilot and Resistance member in a small fraction of the film’s 150-minute runtime. “When I first saw him onscreen, I thought, ‘Great, now the rest of the movie will really explore Nien Nunb’s motivations for convincing his race to join the Rebel Alliance.’ But then it just went back to Luke and Kyle Ren or whatever their names are. It’s like, who cares? Give us more Nien Nunb!” Waller added that despite his disappointment, he was confident that the film was just building anticipation for an entirely Nien Nunb-focused Episode IX.

 

[whateveritis1224]

6 hours ago, knapplc said:

Is Rey the best character, and the best-portrayed character, in all of the movies?

 

For all my (legitimate) gripes about the last two franchise films, she's a huge shining bright spot. 

 

Just wondering if anyone else has another contender for best character/actor. 

Think she's the best character of the new trilogy.  Both Daisy and Adam are fantastic actors in their roles.  But I'm unsure of the fact that Rian had the character go from having Kylo knock her out, kidnap her, interrogate her in a very intrusive manner, kill Han (someone who she had latched onto), injure Finn badly with his lightsaber (first friend, first person that she remembers that came back for her), she calls him a monster, a snake, and a few other names.  Then all within what has to be 2 weeks (no clue how long it took for her to leave D'Qar at the end of TFA, but it could not have been too long) she decides she wants to turn Kylo back to the light to the point of turning on Luke just because she believed his side of the story and felt sorry for him for one second of weakness from Luke.  Daisy plays it wonderfully, but I have not heard/read something that makes this make sense.  It took 6 months to a year for Luke to come to/make that decision for Darth Vader.

[Making Chimichangas]

9 hours ago, zoogs said:

I tend to think characters getting broken down over time is more fascinating than things staying awesome forever. Agree with Landlord.

 

In my last post I referenced a review but didn't post the actual link! Here it is: http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense/

 

Hamil has talked about how he initially was dismayed at what had happened to Luke and then Rian Johnson sold him on it. Some gripers are trying to spin this in a weird way so they can imagine Hamil as on their side. The dismay at discovering what's happened to Luke is kind of the entire point. If Luke rebuilt the Jedi order and just kicked ass the rest of the way there wouldn't be a very interesting story to tell that isn't centered around him, and a showcase of good guys wiping out waves and waves of more bad guys. 

 

Passage from the slashfilm review:

 

 

 

 

That slashfilm commentary was beautiful and hit the nail on the head.  

[Enhance]

17 hours ago, zoogs said:

Yes, and if we this trilogy set ten years ago with Luke, Han, and Leia still as the protagonists, that's probably more along the kind of story we would tell. Or if we had a decades-long running comic book series featuring Luke's excellent adventures...you get the idea. However, Luke's story has been told. And portraying him in a way that preserves an idealized version of his hero-idol ascension -- making it a permanent one in the face of any minor, quickly-resolved stumbles -- would have been a far greater disservice to his character. Though it would have been satisfying, for sure.

 

TLJ and the new trilogy as a whole really makes a point of grappling with the question of legends. Behind the power of how they're received, who are they underneath?...e.g, Rose is star struck by Finn but then realizes he's cutting and running. And she surpasses her hero. Rey (and everyone) knows the legend of the great Luke Skywalker, but she surpasses him, too. Kylo is caught up chasing the image of Darth Vader, and it consumes him and causes him to strive for terrible things. The nice thing about Rey surpassing Luke, too, is it's not portrayed as a repudiation of him, it's a passing of the torch. Luke got it wrong with Ben, seriously wrong. But he got it right with Rey, and with one magnificent final assist he allows the 'spark to light the flame' to endure. That will go down as perhaps the most legendary thing Luke has ever done, and it's a beautiful culmination for him.

"We are what they grow beyond." - Yoda

[Redux]

10 hours ago, whateveritis1224 said:

Think she's the best character of the new trilogy.  Both Daisy and Adam are fantastic actors in their roles.  But I'm unsure of the fact that Rian had the character go from having Kylo knock her out, kidnap her, interrogate her in a very intrusive manner, kill Han (someone who she had latched onto), injure Finn badly with his lightsaber (first friend, first person that she remembers that came back for her), she calls him a monster, a snake, and a few other names.  Then all within what has to be 2 weeks (no clue how long it took for her to leave D'Qar at the end of TFA, but it could not have been too long) she decides she wants to turn Kylo back to the light to the point of turning on Luke just because she believed his side of the story and felt sorry for him for one second of weakness from Luke.  Daisy plays it wonderfully, but I have not heard/read something that makes this make sense.  It took 6 months to a year for Luke to come to/make that decision for Darth Vader.

 

It feels a little mislead for sure, but most of it can be chalked up to two things:

 

1) Snoke is manipulating her mind as well as Kylo's.  He is pushing their connection, you see at first she rejects him completely and calls him names etc.  They stay connected once Snoke is gone, but I think that is just a lingering connection from their two traumatic encounters.

 

2) She idolizes Luke, perhaps through the force she knows how he tried to turn Vader back and eventually did.  I get the feeling someone with a strong light side connection has this innate desire to turn back a dark side user, especially one they are connected to, see point 1).

[Enhance]

The 'turning' of a dark side user to the light has always been something interesting for me to contemplate. Looking back on Luke and Vader, if Vader had survived the encounter on the second Death Star, his remaining life would had to have been as a war criminal. You don't just get a free pass for being the single most hated and feared man in the galaxy.

 

The same things applies to Kylo. If he could've been turned, I'm unsure what role it ultimately would've played. It's not like the Resistance would willingly welcome him with open arms after all of the horrible things he's done in the name of the First Order.