Star Wars: Episode VIII ***Speculation & Spoilers***

[Enhance]

On 1/14/2018 at 3:35 PM, zoogs said:

I hadn't thought about the ship thing. It's interesting. The Force is actually a bit more problematic for me. If these guys can just fling their enemies through the air at will, why do they bother with lightsaber battle? 

 

I say 'problematic' -- it's not that much of a problem.

To add on to @Cdog923's point, I also think the Jedi/Sith wait for their opponent to expose a vulnerability before using other aspects of the Force, just like a UFC fighter might wait for his/her opponent to expose an area and then go for it with a knee as a opposed to their fists. If we think back to Ep. 1, Darth Maul Force pushes Obi Wan into the melting pit after Obi Wan exposes his chest. This may not have been possible if Obi Wan hadn't made that mistake (lightsabers can be used to block other Force attacks in some Star Wars game, as well).

 

Ultimately, I look at the lightsaber as a very versatile tool. It blocks blaster bolts (we've only ever seen Vader and Kylo do this by hand IIRC), it can cut through almost anything with ease and it's a quicker method to kill than something like a Force choke.

[knapplc]

Regarding lightsaber battles, if two people are using the Force then presumably it cancels out. It makes no sense - unless Kylo Ren was just playing with him - why Finn could battle Kylo in TFA when Kylo could sense that Finn has no Force powers and just slam him into a tree. 

[Enhance]

We've seen Jedi/Sith use Force powers against one another (highlighted by my Obi Wan/Darth Maul example). I'm sure there are other examples in canon. Kylo also slammed Rey into a tree.

 

I think one reason Kylo may not have forced slam Finn into a tree is the same reason we've had epic lightsaber battles throughout the Star Wars universe - it makes for a much better action sequence. 

[knapplc]

27 minutes ago, Enhance said:

I think one reason Kylo may not have forced slam Finn into a tree is the same reason we've had epic lightsaber battles throughout the Star Wars universe - it makes for a much better action sequence. 

 

I certainly think that's true. It would have been far less exciting if Finn had powered up the lightsaber only to be summarily "dismissed" by Kylo.  It was a decent battle.

[zoogs]

Yeah, I think I saw that as a mixture of Kylo, fractured both mentally and physically, toying with Finn up until Finn lands a blow on him. After that he dispatches Finn quickly (and non-lethally, for our convenience). He's got it in his head that this lightsaber is his birthright and he needs to act out his role in this grand, glorious fight to win it. 

 

There are aspects of other lightsaber battles that also don't make enough sense when presented on screen, at least to me, and I kind of have to think around them. For the most part we don't see this "canceling" out effect; one guy decides it's time for a force throw or choke and just does it. It's not like lightning, where sometimes the target deflects it but you see how they do that. The out of universe reason of course is this is how they drew up the fight, and when they need Obi-Wan to go flying, he does. But given they have all these tools, I don't see why every lightsaber fight isn't spar until you force choke someone and then force toss your lightsaber through them.

[Making Chimichangas]

Not sure if this has been covered, but I stumbled across this and thought it conveyed my thoughts way better than I could...

 

Why TLJ Didn't Ruin Luke Skywalker

 

Also, please read the, I think, epic Twitter thread in the description box.

[Mavric]

4 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

Not sure if this has been covered, but I stumbled across this and thought it conveyed my thoughts way better than I could...

 

Why TLJ Didn't Ruin Luke Skywalker

 

Also, please read the, I think, epic Twitter thread in the description box.

 

I think that's a pretty reasonable explanation.  That's not a big criticism I have of the story.  I don't really think Luke would have even gotten that close to killing Kylo but it's plausible.

 

On the list of "ruining Luke", that's a ways down for me.

[knapplc]

The Last Jedi was nominated for a few Oscars:

 

Sound Mixing

Sound Editing

Original Score

Visual Effects

 

It wasn't nominated for cinematography, but I'm guessing that's because a lot of the shots are or rely so heavily on CGI.  Visually, this was among the most stunning of the Star Wars movies. So who knows.

[whateveritis1224]

Read something that hit me pretty hard and might also be why some/a lot of people are having issues with TLJ.

 

Prequels were a good story (Anakin's Fall with a backdrop of Palpatine's rise and the creation of the Empire) that was weighed down by everything else that goes into a movie.  Anakin was sympathetic up until he razed the Jedi Temple.  He was a slave who went from actual slavery to a confined and codified entity that he chafed with.  But all that sympathy went away when he started murdering kids, and the movie does not make you feel sympathy for him.  There's a moment of regret, but he's on this path and anyone who runs into him is not having his reasons.  As Vader there is no sympathy.

 

TLJ has an entire subplot made to make you sympathize with Kylo even though he was in his mid-20s when he made the decision to turn his fellow students and kill the ones who did not want to go along with him.  Yes Luke pulled his lightsaber on him, but there's a big jump from protecting yourself to slaughtering your fellow students.  Then we're shown that he's lonely, but his entire circumstance is his decision.  While Han and Leia might not have been the most available parents, there is nothing in the canon that didn't say they weren't good parents who did something analogous to sending your kid to a boarding school.  Even then it was a boarding school ran by your uncle. 

 

So you have a movie who wants you to sympathize for someone who feels lonely and who's uncle pulled a lightsaber on him when he felt the darkness within him, but who's gone ahead and joined Space Nazis, ordered the massacre of a village, and was complicit in the destruction of 5 planets including the main seat of power to the ruling government all when he was in his mid 20s to his early 30s.  

[Redux]

If internet social media were around when Empire Strikes Back came out, it wouldn't be regarded as highly as it is today.

[Making Chimichangas]

On 1/26/2018 at 3:00 PM, Redux said:

If internet social media were around when Empire Strikes Back came out, it wouldn't be regarded as highly as it is today.

 

I believe in time The Last Jedi will be considered a masterpiece, just as The Empire Strikes Back is now.  Okay maybe masterpiece is a stretch, but I think it'll be looked on extremely favorably by the people who initially didn't like it.

 

I think Disney is doing a fantastic job in making these new Star Wars films.  They honor the Universe that George Lucas created while simultaneously expanding upon it.

 

 

[whateveritis1224]

20 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

I believe in time The Last Jedi will be considered a masterpiece, just as The Empire Strikes Back is now.  Okay maybe masterpiece is a stretch, but I think it'll be looked on extremely favorably by the people who initially didn't like it.

 

I think Disney is doing a fantastic job in making these new Star Wars films.  They honor the Universe that George Lucas created while simultaneously expanding upon it.

 

 

About TLJ being a masterpiece ten years down the line, hard to see it happening.  Even when the BS Nerd takes die down, there are still a number of issues that TLJ has that ESB does not.  The entire narrative in ESB is tight with smart motivations and characters that react normally to their circumstances.  The entire Holdo/Poe "confrontation" and the Finn/Rose side trip end up being superfluous.  I would understand the Holdo/Poe situation if they were unable to determine how they were being tracked and though there was a traitor, making it smart not to reveal the transport down to Crait plan.  But all she says is have hope and that saying that if you don't have hope that the sun will rise then it never will (whatever that saying was).  The Finn and Rose side plot was a little better, but Rose just ends up being a mouthpiece for Johnson.

 

Its hard to find this a masterpiece if you can take 5 minutes to think up a different plot that would work better then what was filmed (one being Johnson nixing Poe and Finn not going to Canto Bight together because there was no "conflict" between the two of them).

 

There are spectacular moments, but I think this movie will end up falling just north of the prequels in overall quality by the end of this trilogy.

 

Also after watching it again today, Kylo was totally manipulating Rey from the 2nd force skype session.  The 1st one he doesn't know what's going on, but suspects that it might be Snoke and then from there says stuff to Rey to make her go to his side.

 

Also Also, if anyone can be a hero and it doesn't matter where you come from, as per the message Johnson was going, why can only white people  use the force?  Luke, Leia, Rey, Kylo, and the little slave boy.

Edited February 4, 2018 by whateveritis1224

[Moiraine]

The story is about the Skywalkers, who are White. They are a small % of the population who are force sensitive. We've also got a huge % of the evil force users being White.

 

The main character human force users are (I'm probably forgetting some):

 

Anakin/Luke/Leia/Kylo (I don't see why one family should be counted more than once when we're talking about race)
Obi Wan

Rey

Sidious

Qui-Gon Jinn

Dooku

Mace Windu

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Moiraine

[Making Chimichangas]

15 hours ago, whateveritis1224 said:

About TLJ being a masterpiece ten years down the line, hard to see it happening.  Even when the BS Nerd takes die down, there are still a number of issues that TLJ has that ESB does not.  The entire narrative in ESB is tight with smart motivations and characters that react normally to their circumstances.  The entire Holdo/Poe "confrontation" and the Finn/Rose side trip end up being superfluous.  I would understand the Holdo/Poe situation if they were unable to determine how they were being tracked and though there was a traitor, making it smart not to reveal the transport down to Crait plan.  But all she says is have hope and that saying that if you don't have hope that the sun will rise then it never will (whatever that saying was).  The Finn and Rose side plot was a little better, but Rose just ends up being a mouthpiece for Johnson.

 

Its hard to find this a masterpiece if you can take 5 minutes to think up a different plot that would work better then what was filmed (one being Johnson nixing Poe and Finn not going to Canto Bight together because there was no "conflict" between the two of them).

 

There are spectacular moments, but I think this movie will end up falling just north of the prequels in overall quality by the end of this trilogy.

 

Also after watching it again today, Kylo was totally manipulating Rey from the 2nd force skype session.  The 1st one he doesn't know what's going on, but suspects that it might be Snoke and then from there says stuff to Rey to make her go to his side.

 

Also Also, if anyone can be a hero and it doesn't matter where you come from, as per the message Johnson was going, why can only white people  use the force?  Luke, Leia, Rey, Kylo, and the little slave boy.

 

Regarding how the Resistance is being tracked: In Rogue One, as Jyn Erso is looking for the plans to destroy the Death Star, she's reading through a list of files and she says, "Hyperspace Tracking."  This means that The Empire was working on this tech prior to the events of A New Hope.  And, like with all technology, it merely took time to figure out how to do it.  I agree that there maybe should have been a bit more explaining as to the "how" hyperspace tracking was implemented, but then again it is Star Wars and so the whole "suspension of disbelief" comes into play.

 

Having been in the military, I can tell you that top military commanders do not reveal their plans to rank and file enlisted and officers.  And Holdo revealing her plan to a hot shot flyboy with a penchant for disobeying direct orders is not a smart play.

 

I disagree that Rose is the mouthpiece for Johnson.  Rose is, metaphorically speaking, our collective conscience telling us that no matter how we try to rationalize tyranny, oppression, and cruelty it is not, nor should it ever be, acceptable.  Yoda is, from what I can tell, Rian Johnson's "mouthpiece."  It is through Yoda that Luke, after being a powerful Jedi for over 30 years still hasn't learned Yoda's greatest lesson: Pass on what you have learned, most importantly your failures.  As Yoda says, "We are what they grow beyond.  That is the burden of all Masters." 

 

As far as Kylo "manipulating" Rey with the idea that her parents were worthless junk traders who sold her off for drinking money...that is your opinion as me thinking he's being honest with her is mine.  Will we get a definitive answer to this question in Episode IX?  Only time will tell.

 

The one part of this that I do think you're 100% spot on with is all the "Force Users," (exception being Mace Windu) do happen to be white in the films.  Now if you want to dig into Star Wars Rebels, The Clone Wars (the television animated series), and other canon comics, there are a LOT of non-white, and non-human, Force users.  Why they're not featured more in this new, more diverse, Star Wars Universe is a question more suited to be posed to Kathleen Kennedy than little old me.

 

 

[whateveritis1224]

3 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

Regarding how the Resistance is being tracked: In Rogue One, as Jyn Erso is looking for the plans to destroy the Death Star, she's reading through a list of files and she says, "Hyperspace Tracking."  This means that The Empire was working on this tech prior to the events of A New Hope.  And, like with all technology, it merely took time to figure out how to do it.  I agree that there maybe should have been a bit more explaining as to the "how" hyperspace tracking was implemented, but then again it is Star Wars and so the whole "suspension of disbelief" comes into play.

 

Having been in the military, I can tell you that top military commanders do not reveal their plans to rank and file enlisted and officers.  And Holdo revealing her plan to a hot shot flyboy with a penchant for disobeying direct orders is not a smart play.

 

I disagree that Rose is the mouthpiece for Johnson.  Rose is, metaphorically speaking, our collective conscience telling us that no matter how we try to rationalize tyranny, oppression, and cruelty it is not, nor should it ever be, acceptable.  Yoda is, from what I can tell, Rian Johnson's "mouthpiece."  It is through Yoda that Luke, after being a powerful Jedi for over 30 years still hasn't learned Yoda's greatest lesson: Pass on what you have learned, most importantly your failures.  As Yoda says, "We are what they grow beyond.  That is the burden of all Masters." 

 

As far as Kylo "manipulating" Rey with the idea that her parents were worthless junk traders who sold her off for drinking money...that is your opinion as me thinking he's being honest with her is mine.  Will we get a definitive answer to this question in Episode IX?  Only time will tell.

 

The one part of this that I do think you're 100% spot on with is all the "Force Users," (exception being Mace Windu) do happen to be white in the films.  Now if you want to dig into Star Wars Rebels, The Clone Wars (the television animated series), and other canon comics, there are a LOT of non-white, and non-human, Force users.  Why they're not featured more in this new, more diverse, Star Wars Universe is a question more suited to be posed to Kathleen Kennedy than little old me.

 

 

I'm a huge Star Wars fan, I knew why the First Order has the tech they had and I had no problems with that part.  I had no problem with that or why the First Order just did not jump ahead of them and turn around.  Space is 3 dimensions so if they just jump ahead the Resistance can just alter their course away from the ships and we're stuck in the same place.

 

I also get operational security and information being need to know, but there was no point to this because by the time that the freak out happens on the bridge by Poe enough people knew about the plan to actually put it into place.  So then it feels like they are just keeping information from Poe/the audience so that we can then be surprised by how they're getting off of the ship/to a place that they can ask for help.

 

Also understand the diversity with the Clone Wars and Rebels and I'm with you on that.