Star Wars: Episode VIII ***Speculation & Spoilers***

[knapplc]

I don't know which thread to put this in, but since this is a main arc thread, I'll put it here.

 

Deleted scenes from TESB.  I've seen some of these, but many I haven't.

 

 

[Making Chimichangas]

@zoogs, (and anyone else for that matter) have you all heard about the explanation of Rey's powers in novel "The Last Jedi?"

 

 

 

Thoughts????

Edited March 19, 2018 by Making Chimichangas

[Cdog923]

16 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

@zoogs, (and anyone else for that matter) have you all heard about the explanation of Rey's powers in novel "The Last Jedi?"

 

 

 

Thoughts????

 

**** like this should be in the movie if it's important. 

[Making Chimichangas]

10 hours ago, Cdog923 said:

 

**** like this should be in the movie if it's important. 

 

Agree.  But, does this explanation work for you?  Does it make sense?  Does it make it better, worse, or stay the same?  Why or why not?

 

And anyone else who has an opinion please chime in.

[Mavric]

On 3/18/2018 at 8:03 PM, Making Chimichangas said:

@zoogs, (and anyone else for that matter) have you all heard about the explanation of Rey's powers in novel "The Last Jedi?"

 

 

 

Thoughts????

 

Eh, pretty much agree with what they said at the end: If that's the explanation, it's lazy.

 

The Jedi had been training new Jedi for thousands of years.  But they'd never figured out how to do this.  Neither had any other Sith (that we know of).  So either Snoke somehow came to this relaxation miraculously .... or ... it's just grasping at straws to try to fill up one of the many plot holes in the new movies.

[Making Chimichangas]

19 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Eh, pretty much agree with what they said at the end: If that's the explanation, it's lazy.

 

The Jedi had been training new Jedi for thousands of years.  But they'd never figured out how to do this.  Neither had any other Sith (that we know of).  So either Snoke somehow came to this relaxation miraculously .... or ... it's just grasping at straws to try to fill up one of the many plot holes in the new movies.

 

Here's my take: The Force manifests itself in different ways with different people.  Luke was incredibly strong with it while his sister barely had it at all (using the movies as reference).  Regarding The Force, while training to use it and to learn to control it is the established way, I think having an instance (Rey) where she is so strong naturally or innately with it makes sense.  It might be a "lazy" way to do it, but it is a different approach and is outside the box.  So while it isn't a perfect explanation, I think it works.  The other side to that is, they've spent two films building up how powerful Rey has become, now--in Episode IX, they need to pay it off.  They need to come up with something so badass that challenges Rey to the point where she breaks or almost breaks.  Basically show us why The Force choose Rey as its vessel and made her so incredibly powerful.  I hope that's what IX does.

[RedDenver]

The Last Jedi was a mess, nothing happened to advance the plot, all the characters failed in their missions, and now there's not much to even be interested in for the next movie. Basically we witnessed a giant middle finger from Rian Johnson to anything that got setup in TFA. Why even make it part of the main sequence if you're just going to kill off the Skywalkers? I agree with a lot of this review (NSFW language and spoilers):

 

[HuskersNC949597]

Can't go wrong with Red Letter Media   Hopefully we get a nice Plinkett review of this movie.

[Making Chimichangas]

@RedDenver, to say TLJ didn't advance the plot is wrong.  It did advance the plot, although perhaps not in a way that made people happy.  The Last Jedi was, almost exclusively, about survival.  It picks up right where The Force Awakens leaves off and tells the desperate tale of the Resistance just trying to get away from The First Order.  The fact that the Resistance mostly failed throughout the film was meant to show that sometimes no matter what you do, you can still fail.  In that regard, The Last Jedi is very much akin to The Empire Strikes Back.  Anyway, I love Star Wars and personally I do not understand the hate (not saying you, just in general).  It is a fictional space fantasy, not meant to be taken literally or seriously.  It is pure escapist entertainment and should be viewed as such.

[RedDenver]

21 minutes ago, Making Chimichangas said:

@RedDenver, to say TLJ didn't advance the plot is wrong.  It did advance the plot, although perhaps not in a way that made people happy.  The Last Jedi was, almost exclusively, about survival.  It picks up right where The Force Awakens leaves off and tells the desperate tale of the Resistance just trying to get away from The First Order.  The fact that the Resistance mostly failed throughout the film was meant to show that sometimes no matter what you do, you can still fail.  In that regard, The Last Jedi is very much akin to The Empire Strikes Back.  Anyway, I love Star Wars and personally I do not understand the hate (not saying you, just in general).  It is a fictional space fantasy, not meant to be taken literally or seriously.  It is pure escapist entertainment and should be viewed as such.

The plot hasn't advanced because it's the same as it was at the end of TFA: the Resistance is running from the First Order after blowing up a big, bad space weapon. All the questions about the characters have basically been made moot: Who is Snoke? (doesn't matter) Who are Rey's parents? (doesn't matter) How does Luke fit into the story? (dead) What's Luke going to do with Rey? (nothing)

 

What's there to even be curious about?

 

At the end of Empire, the Rebels had been routed from their Hoth base, Han was frozen in carbonite and sent to Jabba, and Vader claimed to be Luke's father. Those were plot lines that we were eager to see how they were resolved.

 

And while Star Wars is fictional, it still has to be good and it's going to get criticized on it's weaker parts. The Last Jedi was to Star Wars what Man of Steel was to Superman - a destruction of the themes and motivations that made those fictional universes and characters work. And Last Jedi is a bigger error because it's episode 8 in a series whereas Man of Steel is a re-imagining of an origin story. Abandoning everything that was setup in episode 7 just makes no sense.

[Redux]

I hate to make the same point over again, but I feel I must.  If Force Awakens and Last Jedi were episodes 10 and 11 and not 7 and 8, they would be looked at quite differently and be much more well received.  If we had a 7, 8 and 9 that focused on Luke, Han, Leia, Chewy and the Droids....well people wouldn't be as down on this trilogy because we would have gotten real closure.  Think about it, if we got to see 3 movies of our favorite characters focusing on events after ROTJ that came out in the early 90's and the prequels and current sequels were still the same it would be a totally different animal.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Redux

[Mavric]

7 minutes ago, Redux said:

I hate to make the same point over again, but I feel I must.  If Force Awakens and Last Jedi were episodes 10 and 11 and not 7 and 8, they would be looked at quite differently and be much more well received.  If we had a 7, 8 and 9 that focused on Luke, Han, Leia, Chewy and the Droids....well people wouldn't be as down on this trilogy because we would have gotten real closure.  Think about it, if we got to see 3 movies of our favorite characters focusing on events after ROTJ that came out in the early 90's and the prequels and current sequels were still the same it would be a totally different animal.

 

Eh, that could have softened the blow.

 

But I wasn't necessarily looking for more of the same characters.  And I said I was even willing to give TFA a bit of leeway because it's always tough to do a transition - nodding to the past while trying to blaze a new trail.

 

But then the lack of continuity that plagued TFA was repeated in TLJ.  They were entertaining.  Just not good, coherant stories.

[Making Chimichangas]

2 hours ago, RedDenver said:

The plot hasn't advanced because it's the same as it was at the end of TFA: the Resistance is running from the First Order after blowing up a big, bad space weapon. All the questions about the characters have basically been made moot: Who is Snoke? (doesn't matter) Who are Rey's parents? (doesn't matter) How does Luke fit into the story? (dead) What's Luke going to do with Rey? (nothing)

 

What's there to even be curious about?

 

At the end of Empire, the Rebels had been routed from their Hoth base, Han was frozen in carbonite and sent to Jabba, and Vader claimed to be Luke's father. Those were plot lines that we were eager to see how they were resolved.

 

And while Star Wars is fictional, it still has to be good and it's going to get criticized on it's weaker parts. The Last Jedi was to Star Wars what Man of Steel was to Superman - a destruction of the themes and motivations that made those fictional universes and characters work. And Last Jedi is a bigger error because it's episode 8 in a series whereas Man of Steel is a re-imagining of an origin story. Abandoning everything that was setup in episode 7 just makes no sense.

 

"What's there to be curious about?"

 

1. Where does Rey and Kylo go from the end of TLJ?

2. How does the Resistance re-build?

3. From being nearly decimated, how do/will they "burn the First Order to the ground?"

4. How will Episode IX deal with Carrie Fisher's untimely passing?  (Episode 9 was supposed to be [from what I have heard] all about General Organa finally realizing her Force powers and being the central protagonist.)

5. Finn finally accepted he was "rebel scum" and Poe emerged as a true leader after learning a hard lesson, what will happen with them and how will their story arc continue/end?

6. Is Captain Phasma still alive?

7. Will Rey finally meet a foe who pushes her to a breaking point?  

8. How will Kylo act now that he is the First Order's Supreme Leader?

9. There are rumors that Episode IX will tie the entire Star Wars franchise together, how will that occur?

 

Those are just the questions I can think of right off the top of my head that I am curious about.  The Last Jedi is a beautiful film, with actual nuanced human characters.  Is it perfect?  No.  It has problems, but in my opinion the "problems" are over-stated.  I mean c'mon, the original trilogy and especially the prequels weren't exactly well-written either.  It's just most of us were 5-10 years old when A New Hope hit theaters and we didn't pick up on just how badly written those movies were.  But now that we're older (in my case much much older) those same mediocre scripts in these new movies get ripped while the older movies largely get a pass.  

[whateveritis1224]

I'll drop this here:

 

https://www.themarysue.com/the-inclusive-illusion-of-star-wars-the-last-jedi/

 

Are there crappy mouth breathers who are critical of The Last Jedi for crappy reasons?  Absolutely.  But there are also valid criticisms about the characterizations of the characters of color and the main females in the movie.

2 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

"What's there to be curious about?"

 

1. Where does Rey and Kylo go from the end of TLJ?  It's pretty obvious all there is going to be is a good vs. bad relation.  Rey completely shut our Kylo at the end when she closed the ramp to the Falcon.  She gave him a chance, the 2nd chance we've seen in this sequel trilogy, and he's spit in the chances face.  He killed Han Solo, he should not be redeemed and it will feel like a cop out if they spent this movie saying that bloodlines do not matter and that anyone can be a hero if they end up keeping Kylo alive for the fact that he's the last Skywalker.

 

2. How does the Resistance re-build?  It's not the resistance anymore, it's the Rebellion.  All Johnson did was revert the political part of the storyline back to what we saw in ANH/ESB, but now the Rebellion is in a worse position then they were in at any point in the Original Trilogy (undeniable since the entire Rebellion now fits in the Falcon).

 

3. From being nearly decimated, how do/will they "burn the First Order to the ground?"  You got me, it's hard to believe that the Rebellion can come back to all of the losses they experienced in this movie.

 

4. How will Episode IX deal with Carrie Fisher's untimely passing?  (Episode 9 was supposed to be [from what I have heard] all about General Organa finally realizing her Force powers and being the central protagonist.)  Not in the least curious about this because it will be handled in my presumption the most care possible.  Which means they will either have a funeral scene at the beginning or it will just simply be mentioned in the opening scroll.

 

5. Finn finally accepted he was "rebel scum" and Poe emerged as a true leader after learning a hard lesson, what will happen with them and how will their story arc continue/end?  Finn has always been a "good" guy and he has always rebelled against Stormtrooper training.  In a lot of the supplemental material he chafes against what he's expected to do as a Stormtrooper and is constantly helping the guy who dies at the beginning of TFA (the guy who wipes the hand print on his face mask) pass his trials along with his own.  On top of that he's shown to be in the top 1% of the Stormtrooper trainees.  What I'm getting at is he's a competent soldier.  His arc in TFA is to stop running from the First Order and instead fight back for what is right.  His arc in TLJ is to stop running from the First Order and to fight for the good of the entire galaxy (which at this point is saving the Rebellion).  The lesson he learns from DJ is that there are no good sides and that it's better to stay out of the fight, but he's someone who was kidnapped as a child and forced to be a Stormtrooper.  It needs to be fought, and Finn should have known that without having to be preached at by Rose or DJ.  If JJ continues his characterization from TFA, I'm interested.  I'm definitely not as interested if his characterization is continued from TLJ (the butt of the joke).  It's tumblr, but here is a link with examples from the supplemental material (like the book released before TFA called Before the Awakens):  http://stitchmediamix.tumblr.com/post/171726294234/allaboardtheloonyexpress-yungjedi-like-you

 

Poe on the other hand has been the right hand of Leia for a long time.  Again the supplemental material shows someone completely different than what is shown in TLJ.  It's always felt like he was going to take over from Leia and his role in TFA also shows this (he's Leia's most trusted pilot and he also leads the planning and the fight against Starkiller Base).  I'm most interested in this, but who know exactly how interested I should be.

 

6. Is Captain Phasma still alive?  Who cares?  Most overrated character since Boba Fett.  She has done absolutely nothing and I would say that any conflict with Finn has been resolved (though it was better resolved in one of TLJ's deleted scenes).

 

7. Will Rey finally meet a foe who pushes her to a breaking point?  Probably not because at this point she does not have anymore internal conflict.  TLJ resolved every conflict that she has.  She comes to the realization that her parents don't matter, it's the found family that she has gathered that does.  The line between her and Kylo has been drawn and for her to make another attempt at redeeming him would be even worse than the attempt in TLJ (which took place at most a week past TFA).  I can accept her trying to redeem Kylo because she would not feel like she should be the one to lead the Light Side force users, but I also have a problem with how quickly she went from calling Kylo a monster to pouring her heart out to him and trusting his word over Luke's.  Even with Kylo, we're told over and over that they are equal, so unless they want to go major subversion and kill off Rey, she's going to defeat Kylo.

 

8. How will Kylo act now that he is the First Order's Supreme Leader?  I think it would have been more interesting if Kylo was redeemed (at least partially) or at least separated himself from the First Order so that Episode IX focused more on the fight with the Rebellion and whatever help they get from the New Republic (which is who knows because no one came to help them at their most dire need).  This didn't happen, though, so it feels like what we're going to get more of the same with the evil First Order led by a powerful darksider and the good Rebellion led by a powerful lightsider.

 

9. There are rumors that Episode IX will tie the entire Star Wars franchise together, how will that occur?  TLJ informed us that we should kill the past as it does not matter anymore.  Why should we care about the rest of the Saga if TLJ told us not to look back but forward?

 

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by whateveritis1224

[Landlord]

3 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

"What's there to be curious about?"

 

1. Where does Rey and Kylo go from the end of TLJ?

2. How does the Resistance re-build?

3. From being nearly decimated, how do/will they "burn the First Order to the ground?"

4. How will Episode IX deal with Carrie Fisher's untimely passing?  (Episode 9 was supposed to be [from what I have heard] all about General Organa finally realizing her Force powers and being the central protagonist.)

5. Finn finally accepted he was "rebel scum" and Poe emerged as a true leader after learning a hard lesson, what will happen with them and how will their story arc continue/end?

6. Is Captain Phasma still alive?

7. Will Rey finally meet a foe who pushes her to a breaking point?  

8. How will Kylo act now that he is the First Order's Supreme Leader?

9. There are rumors that Episode IX will tie the entire Star Wars franchise together, how will that occur?

 

Those are just the questions I can think of right off the top of my head that I am curious about.  The Last Jedi is a beautiful film, with actual nuanced human characters.  Is it perfect?  No.  It has problems, but in my opinion the "problems" are over-stated.  I mean c'mon, the original trilogy and especially the prequels weren't exactly well-written either.  It's just most of us were 5-10 years old when A New Hope hit theaters and we didn't pick up on just how badly written those movies were.  But now that we're older (in my case much much older) those same mediocre scripts in these new movies get ripped while the older movies largely get a pass.  

 

 

You can find curiosity questions like this for any movie, good or bad, if you want to. That doesn't speak at all towards the quality of a movie.

 

1. Where does Anakin and Padme and their forbidden love go from the end of AotC?

2. How does the Senate fall apart and pave the way for the Empire?

3. From what seems like a huge victory, how does the Republic fall?

4. How will Count Dooku play into the growing political unrest? What's his backstory?

5. How will Obi Wan and Anakin's relationship be effected by such a brutal defeat?

6. Will adolescent Boba Fett play an important role after watching his father get killed by the Jedi?

7. How will the Jedi Order react to losing dozens and dozens of warriors?

 

Attack of the Clones is not just the worst Star Wars movie, but an awful movie in general. You can still generate plenty of "ooh this is a curious thought" questions from watching it.