Star Wars: Episode VIII ***Speculation & Spoilers***

[Enhance]

Saw it, loved it. Will share some brief overall thoughts

 

Some notable pros:

- Rey and Kylo's character arcs. Their force connection and the ups/downs of their emotions related to one another are fascinating.

- The film's tone and direction. TFA rehashed many themes we're familiar with while TLJ went in some fairly new directions. Sure, we witnessed some obvious analogies (traveling to a distant planet for Jedi training, a massive battle against AT-AT's on a remote planet) but they were tweaked enough to where they didn't feel like something we'd felt before.

- The new uses of the force. Seeing these were incredible. Kylo/Rey's connection, Luke's force projections, Yoda calling down a lightning storm...

- Luke's tormented mind about what happened and how it happened. My only disappointment here is that we're not going to see the physical form of Luke (and his powers) again but likely a force ghost version

- The whole battle in Snoke's throne room was epic

- Seeing THE REAL Yoda

 

Some notable cons:

- Finn. Echoing some others' thoughts here, but it's almost like they had no idea what to do with him in this movie. (as a part B... the whole casino sub plot and Benicio del Toro stuff was underwhelming). This ended up hurting the movie in more than one way and is really my biggest gripe by far

- Leia force pulling herself back to the ship felt outlandish, even as a Force power

- Phasma went the way of Boba Fett - interesting and under-utilized

- any insight into Snoke

[Making Chimichangas]

Okay so one part of this film I thoroughly enjoyed was when Luke told Rey to "Reach out..."

 

She reaches out her hand and he starts tickling her hand with a reed of some kind.

 

Rey: "I feel something!"

Luke: "Yeah?"

 

It was just so absurd and hilarious.  There actually was quite a bit of laugh out loud moments in this film, which was great because overall this film reminds me quite a bit of "The Empire Strikes Back" in that it is a pretty dark film where the Resistance is darn near wiped out.

 

What I also liked is that pretty much every plan or move the Resistance made, failed.  The First Order was one step ahead of them rhe whole way.

 

I also found it interesting that as a plot device they made the rebel fleet run out fuel.  That is an aspect of Star Wars we've never seen before.

 

More later...

 

[Making Chimichangas]

Now is later...

 

I liked the casino scene.  I won't go into why because that would be a political discussion, and I want to keep on topic which is this movie.

 

And I disagree about Finn and Captain Phasma being "wasted."  Finn had a part, it just didn't work out because the plan failed.  Phasma is higher up in the First Order's chain of command so all of her troops are going to do 99% of the heavy lifting while she watches.  Typical management.  

 

And I want to say, I thought Leia's Force Float, and surviving in space, was incedibly dumb.  With Carrie Fisher's real life passing, having her die in that scene would have been much better.  She would have died exactly how she lived--fighting the Empire/First Order.

 

And oh yes, Laura Dern's character...when she turned that Resistance cruiser around, I thought, yeah she's going out guns blazing!  Then she did something nobody expected and punched the hyperdrive splitting that Dreadnaught in basically half.  There was an audible gasp in the theater when that happened because no one was expecting that.  Extremely well done.

[Moiraine]

It would've been awful if Leia had died in that scene. My favorite scene of the movie was her talk with Luke.

If she'd been the one who died with the ship that would've been okay, but then again, she wouldn't have had the talk with Luke.

[Making Chimichangas]

On 12/15/2017 at 11:35 PM, zoogs said:

I disagree with this review's take on the casino city. That was a mirror held up uncomfortably close to our faces. We've had variations on the "protagonists visit some strange new underworld" theme before, but usually the focus is on showcasing weird alien life. This time, in the midst of crisis and devastation and with the good guys on the verge of being snuffed out altogether, I think it was no accident that so many of the casino-goers were humans. Not a care in the world, basking in opulence.

 

 

This ^^^ is, I think, the true purpose of the casino scene.  I really liked it.

[Making Chimichangas]

One more point: Luke's force projection, if I remember correctly, was borrowed from a concept that Timothy Zahn did with Jorus Cobath (not sure if I spelled his name right, it has been a very long time since I read that trilogy).  Also, Luke's hideout on that world, the design also seemed to borrow the concept from Zahn's trilogy also.  I remember Jorus Cobath having a similar type of residence.  Could be accuracy issues in my recall though--it just seems familar.

[Saunders]

I'm warming up to it, but the power creep and throwing out of the established world rules is still bothering me.

[Enhance]

The casino world's metaphor is the only redeeming quality of that whole sub plot but, in my opinion, it isn't relevant enough to the rest of the movie to justify the roughly 30 minutes it took to tell that part of the story. We gain little else from that foray and it ultimately ends with their mission failing and them face down in a futuristic beheading.

 

Perhaps it will carry more relevance in later films, particularly with the boy at the end who force pulls a broom.

[Cdog923]

I liked it, but didn't love it. It wasn't nearly as good as it could have, or really, should have been, but there are some very entertaining aspects to it. 

 

Spoiler

I'm not a huge fan at all of the ending of Luke's arc. There's so much more to be told before turning him into a Force Ghost. 

 

[Enhance]

13 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

I liked it, but didn't love it. It wasn't nearly as good as it could have, or really, should have been, but there are some very entertaining aspects to it. 

 

  Hide contents

I'm not a huge fan at all of the ending of Luke's arc. There's so much more to be told before turning him into a Force Ghost. 

 

You don't have to do the spoiler tags in here (in thread title). 

[Cdog923]

1 minute ago, Enhance said:

You don't have to do the spoiler tags in here (in thread title). 

 

Oh, nice. I err on the safe side, but that's good to know. Thanks! 

[knapplc]

Saw it today.  Really wanted to like it.  Really didn't.

 

The main thing I took away from this is that, with the main arc movies, they're going to play it safe and build on rip off the original movies.  It's a formula they know works, they regurgitate the old scenes packaged in a new way, and they get their $4.1 billion dollars back.  Safe.  But awful if you're looking to watch a great new movie. 

 

I'm going to miss some of the repeats, but here's a partial list.

 

We've Seen This Before

 

The Empire - the thing that needed explaining the most in this whole new trilogy is What Happened To The New Republic?!?!? Instead, we just have to accept that the Republic, which had stood for thousands of years, is suddenly out AGAIN after reestablishing itself from the couple-three decade reign of the Emperor. We absolutely needed a brief scene explaining how that coalition of systems that grew so big they overthrew the Empire - setting off celebrations around the galaxy - became so impotent so fast that the Empire essentially reestablished itself in... what? A few years? But where did they get the funds to build a huge new fleet, how did they train all those Stormtroopers, how do they have a functional government, how isn't the entire galaxy in turmoil or fighting against them?  The tiny Rebel Resistance fleet... where did the galaxy-wide support go, and how did it go so fast?  This is the least believable part of this whole thing, and that's not even including all the science questions you have to just ignore. 

 

Hoth - AT-ATs, underpowered but plucky "rebel" ships, a fortress surrounded by snow salt with a giant main gate. Trenches & turrets set up not in any strategic position but right out front. It's like a kid building a fort in the loose earth in the backyard for his green army men. Zero sophistication, just Here Are Good Guys Opposing Bad Guys.  Blend that with the Falcon coming to save the day a la the trench run in Star Wars. 

 

Handcuffs - The whole Kylo takes Rey to see the Emperor Snoke scene was lifted from ROTJ.  Some of the lines were lifted wholesale, the Emperor Snoke removing the handcuffs, the battle in the Throne Room, the conversation about conflict in you bap bap bap. 

 

The Bacta Tank - Finn waking up in the medical chamber, full of goop from his healing gizmo.

 

Dagobah - Luke Rey travels to a faraway planet where an old Jedi Master is hiding and, after some coercion, convinces the Master to provide training. There's even an X-Wing sunken in the water and a giant water dwelling creature broaching in front of us.  The training is again entirely enigmatic (reach out with your feelings) and, especially in Rey's case, almost nonexistent.  There's some physical training (but condescendingly? not nearly to the same extent as Luke's) and there's the emotional pull of the Dark Side and the cave under the tree pit by the sea where we see...

 

Luke's Face in Vader's Helmet - Luke goes into the tree cave where he swipes Vader's mask off only to reveal his face.  Rey thinks she's going to get answers, too, only to see... her own face. 

 

Bleh.   I could go on and on. 

 

The worst thing is, there is NO NEED to recycle these plot lines, at all. There are a million great stories they could tell with this universe, so why (other than it's a guaranteed buck) do they rehash this stuff?

 

And why don't fans hold them accountable for it?  Too much gushing over this movie, not enough people asking why.  Audiences need to be critical of the movies they watch or they're going to get crap movies. 

 

If this movie wasn't in the Star Wars line, if it was its own stand-alone story like Bladerunner or 2001: A Space Odyssey, it would be laughed out of the theater.  SO MANY PLOT HOLES. So much dumbness. 

 

Why did Laura Dern wait for a dozen of those transports to be destroyed before doing something?  Fire up your guns, have the ship's autopilot help out. Cheap ploy to create drama.

Why didn't the Empire put the pedal to the metal and catch up to the fleeing Rebel cruiser? Or, if it was faster, why didn't they just continue to pull away?  That whole space chase was dumb.

How do you sneak ships off that cruiser for side missions or escapes and the Empire can't see them? We have, today, an Earth-made telescope that can detect something as weak as a home WiFi signal from a million miles away. Literally - I'm not making that up.  Why would we believe a space-based culture wouldn't/couldn't see those ships and blast them? 

What in the world was that whole casino planet thing? It seemed nothing more than a way to introduce Benicio Del Toro's character, and produce some love plot between Finn & Rose, and to introduce some sympathetic and lovable horsedogcats and SUPER DUPER cute slave kids with clean faces and huge, cutesy eyes (and a force wielder). 

Leia's space sojourn.  That whole thing was corny as hell, should have resulted in her death so Carrie Fisher could have a been written out of the show, and we'd have closure. A human can't survive in space that long.  And when she started Force-floating back to the ship, why didn't her gown flutter?  I know the science is wonky in the Star Wars universe, but surely we're not supposed to believe inertia doesn't exist. Right?

Why were the bombers dropping bombs via some manual remote control?  That was asinine. 

 

Again. Bleh.  I could go on and on. Like this movie went on and on. 

 

This is likely the last of these movies I see in a theater.  They've lost me.  If this is what they're going to produce from now on, I guess I'll just let the present die & cherish my childhood memories from the past. 

[Cdog923]

33 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Saw it today.  Really wanted to like it.  Really didn't.

 

The main thing I took away from this is that, with the main arc movies, they're going to play it safe and build on rip off the original movies.  It's a formula they know works, they regurgitate the old scenes packaged in a new way, and they get their $4.1 billion dollars back.  Safe.  But awful if you're looking to watch a great new movie. 

 

I'm going to miss some of the repeats, but here's a partial list.

 

We've Seen This Before

 

The Empire - the thing that needed explaining the most in this whole new trilogy is What Happened To The New Republic?!?!? Instead, we just have to accept that the Republic, which had stood for thousands of years, is suddenly out AGAIN after reestablishing itself from the couple-three decade reign of the Emperor. We absolutely needed a brief scene explaining how that coalition of systems that grew so big they overthrew the Empire - setting off celebrations around the galaxy - became so impotent so fast that the Empire essentially reestablished itself in... what? A few years? But where did they get the funds to build a huge new fleet, how did they train all those Stormtroopers, how do they have a functional government, how isn't the entire galaxy in turmoil or fighting against them?  The tiny Rebel Resistance fleet... where did the galaxy-wide support go, and how did it go so fast?  This is the least believable part of this whole thing, and that's not even including all the science questions you have to just ignore. 

 

Hoth - AT-ATs, underpowered but plucky "rebel" ships, a fortress surrounded by snow salt with a giant main gate. Trenches & turrets set up not in any strategic position but right out front. It's like a kid building a fort in the loose earth in the backyard for his green army men. Zero sophistication, just Here Are Good Guys Opposing Bad Guys.  Blend that with the Falcon coming to save the day a la the trench run in Star Wars. 

 

Handcuffs - The whole Kylo takes Rey to see the Emperor Snoke scene was lifted from ROTJ.  Some of the lines were lifted wholesale, the Emperor Snoke removing the handcuffs, the battle in the Throne Room, the conversation about conflict in you bap bap bap. 

 

The Bacta Tank - Finn waking up in the medical chamber, full of goop from his healing gizmo.

 

Dagobah - Luke Rey travels to a faraway planet where an old Jedi Master is hiding and, after some coercion, convinces the Master to provide training. There's even an X-Wing sunken in the water and a giant water dwelling creature broaching in front of us.  The training is again entirely enigmatic (reach out with your feelings) and, especially in Rey's case, almost nonexistent.  There's some physical training (but condescendingly? not nearly to the same extent as Luke's) and there's the emotional pull of the Dark Side and the cave under the tree pit by the sea where we see...

 

Luke's Face in Vader's Helmet - Luke goes into the tree cave where he swipes Vader's mask off only to reveal his face.  Rey thinks she's going to get answers, too, only to see... her own face. 

 

Bleh.   I could go on and on. 

 

The worst thing is, there is NO NEED to recycle these plot lines, at all. There are a million great stories they could tell with this universe, so why (other than it's a guaranteed buck) do they rehash this stuff?

 

And why don't fans hold them accountable for it?  Too much gushing over this movie, not enough people asking why.  Audiences need to be critical of the movies they watch or they're going to get crap movies. 

 

If this movie wasn't in the Star Wars line, if it was its own stand-alone story like Bladerunner or 2001: A Space Odyssey, it would be laughed out of the theater.  SO MANY PLOT HOLES. So much dumbness. 

 

Why did Laura Dern wait for a dozen of those transports to be destroyed before doing something?  Fire up your guns, have the ship's autopilot help out. Cheap ploy to create drama.

Why didn't the Empire put the pedal to the metal and catch up to the fleeing Rebel cruiser? Or, if it was faster, why didn't they just continue to pull away?  That whole space chase was dumb.

How do you sneak ships off that cruiser for side missions or escapes and the Empire can't see them? We have, today, an Earth-made telescope that can detect something as weak as a home WiFi signal from a million miles away. Literally - I'm not making that up.  Why would we believe a space-based culture wouldn't/couldn't see those ships and blast them? 

What in the world was that whole casino planet thing? It seemed nothing more than a way to introduce Benicio Del Toro's character, and produce some love plot between Finn & Rose, and to introduce some sympathetic and lovable horsedogcats and SUPER DUPER cute slave kids with clean faces and huge, cutesy eyes (and a force wielder). 

Leia's space sojourn.  That whole thing was corny as hell, should have resulted in her death so Carrie Fisher could have a been written out of the show, and we'd have closure. A human can't survive in space that long.  And when she started Force-floating back to the ship, why didn't her gown flutter?  I know the science is wonky in the Star Wars universe, but surely we're not supposed to believe inertia doesn't exist. Right?

Why were the bombers dropping bombs via some manual remote control?  That was asinine. 

 

Again. Bleh.  I could go on and on. Like this movie went on and on. 

 

This is likely the last of these movies I see in a theater.  They've lost me.  If this is what they're going to produce from now on, I guess I'll just let the present die & cherish my childhood memories from the past. 

 

This is, essentially where I am at as well. There were some parts that made me smile (The Yoda/Luke scene is absolutely one of my favorite scenes in the entire series) but, the more I sit here and think about it, the less favorable the film comes off. The middle third of the film that encompasses the Casino portion of the storyline and the rational behind it is on par with some of the worst parts of Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Force Awakens. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Cdog923

[Making Chimichangas]

2 hours ago, Enhance said:

The casino world's metaphor is the only redeeming quality of that whole sub plot but, in my opinion, it isn't relevant enough to the rest of the movie to justify the roughly 30 minutes it took to tell that part of the story. We gain little else from that foray and it ultimately ends with their mission failing and them face down in a futuristic beheading.

 

Perhaps it will carry more relevance in later films, particularly with the boy at the end who force pulls a broom.

 

I'm going to disagree and here is why: Finn and that gal (can't remember the character's name) go all the way to that planet to try and convince someone they don't know to help them get on-board a First Order cruiser.  For all they know, he might have been loyal to the First Order and betrayed them.  Or, he may have refused to help them entirely.  This move was pure desperation, a longshot/hail mary if there ever was one.  It showed the lengths people can and will go to for a cause they believe in.  The fact that it failed made the Resistance's situation even more dire.

 

Now I could have done without the whole PETA sub-plot, but it wasn't enough to ruin the scene. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Making Chimichangas

[suh_fan93]

I enjoyed it but about 3/4th's of the way through just like a lot of movies I thought it could have been edited down a bit.  My gf enjoyed it despite not having seen a single prequel.

 

I enjoyed all of the films fighting/action sequences.  I do think Snoke went down pretty easily for being the so called 'surpreme leader'.