What Happened in Niger

[TGHusker]

Since there isn't a thread created on this topic  and it has been indirectly discussed under Trump's foreign policy, I felt it best to

start this thread.  You will notice that I used non-conservative sources to start the discussion.  I don't trust sources that are favorable of the administration at this point until all of the facts come out.   With all of the previous discussion on Benghazi - it is only right that this thread be started and  the issue addressed.  Yes, this is Trump's Benghazi.  Anyone critical of Obama/Clinton should be just as critical over this event.  Time will tell how forthcoming the admin will be wt the facts, but I'm not holding my breath. 

 

As I posted previously under the foreign policy thread, this situation is terrible.  Some discussing events:

1. We have lack of intelligence,

2. that led these soldiers into basically an ambush,

3. no back up cover,  French planes weren't authorized to engage (how stupid is that)

4.  one man left behind -

5.very well could have been alive when left behind,

6. he was abused and mutilated,

7. there was no discussion by the Trump admin for 12 days

8. Trump felt it more important to talk about the NFL protest that the loss of life in Niger

9. Trump's deplorable (yes I used that word for a reason) call to the widow of the man left behind

10.  Still facts and information from the admin remains in the shadows

 

This is an amazing statement - in bold. 

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/10/23/16526884/niger-troops-trump-johnson-dunford

The mysterious deaths of four US Special Forces troops during an early-October mission in Niger has gone from a military tragedy to a roaring political controversy because of President Donald Trump’s feud with the widow of one of the soldiers killed in the operation. The Pentagon just made things even murkier.

On Monday, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen. Joseph Dunford — the military’s highest-ranking officer — gave the most detailed account of the situation yet, including a timeline of the events that led to the killings of Sgt. La David Johnson and three other Green Berets. But what was most striking in his remarks was how little even the Pentagon’s top officer appeared to know about how and why the mission in the West African nation of Niger went so badly wrong.

Over and over again, Dunford repeated that he only had limited information about what actually happened in Niger. On perhaps the biggest outstanding question — how the elite US soldiers ended up coming into contact with hostile forces during what was ostensibly a noncombat mission — he professed complete ignorance, promising answers after the military concludes a lengthy internal investigation.

It felt, in many ways, like a repeat of the early days after the terrorist attack in Benghazi, Libya: a situation where something went ba

 

 

TG:  The bigger picture of what is going on.  Shadow wars throughout Africa:

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/10/26/16547528/us-soldiers-niger-johnson-widow-africa-trump

It’s a fight that takes place largely in the shadows, led by small teams of US special operations forces. In Somalia, Navy SEALs are hunting members of al-Qaeda and ISIS-linked militants from groups like al-Shabaab (one of the commandos died in a botched raid earlier this year). In Libya, they’re carrying out counterterror missions like the one that captured Ahmed Abu Khattala, a militant linked to the deadly assault on the American diplomatic compound in Benghazi. And in Djibouti, the US flies armed drones out of a major airbase at Camp Lemonnier, which is also used for counterterrorism and counter-piracy operations in the region.

US forces have also regularly conducted raids and other missions in Chad, Cameroon, Uganda, and, of course, Niger, where there are at least 800 American troops deployed.

The missions rely on a broad array of legal authorities but have one particularly important thing in common: They have never been specifically authorized by Congress, let alone discussed and debated by the American public. Huge questions exist as to the strategic importance and relevance of all these missions, and whether they improve US national security enough to justify the high cost in blood and treasure. Since 2001, at least 36 soldiers have died conducting or supporting military operations in Africa, including Sgt. La David Johnson and the three others killed in Niger earlier this month.

 

Other related articles

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/niger-isis-us-soldiers-attack/543531/

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/10/20/everything-we-know-about-the-niger-attack-that-left-4-u-s-soldiers-dead/?utm_term=.557b296d2749

 

video

https://www.cbsnews.com/videos/investigating-what-happened-in-niger/

 

[BigRedBuster]

I had a discussion with a very good friend whose brother is/was special forces in the middle east.  He is a huge Trump guy and I....obviously am not.  So, we have interesting discussions.

 

The other day, he brought up a conversation he had with his brother.  Supposedly, the belief throughout the special forces is that if we really wanted to defeat ISIS in Syria, all we would need is around 25,000 special forces on the ground and have the Generals turn them loose.  He told me that Obama required his personal signature on every mission.  So, when they saw something needed to be done, it needed to be sent up the chain and then back down.  Now, Trump has given the Generals permission to make these decisions and it's one reason why ISIS is being defeated now.

 

I say this with absolutely no first hand knowledge, but, I do trust my friend that he did have this conversation with his brother.

 

All that said, I have a very uneasy feeling about all these operations in various countries no matter where we feel like we want to go.  It's like we don't recognize any sovereign nation anymore and believe we can just do whatever we want.  And...this isn't just a Trump thing.  It's been going on a long time.

[RedDenver]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

All that said, I have a very uneasy feeling about all these operations in various countries no matter where we feel like we want to go.  It's like we don't recognize any sovereign nation anymore and believe we can just do whatever we want.  And...this isn't just a Trump thing.  It's been going on a long time.

This is one of the reasons I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary. She was at least as aggressive as Trump and more so than Obama - there was no way to vote against these foreign interventions.

 

As for the Niger situation, I'm going to take the same position as I did early on with Benghazi and say that we need to wait for the investigation to reveal the facts before we can decide what to do about what happened. However, unlike Benghazi, I'm not confident we can trust the administration to do real fact-finding or release those facts.

[knapplc]

Benghazi was a tragedy that was turned into a political nightmare and over-investigated.  Niger was a tragedy that will be turned into a political black hole and not investigated at all.  Both because Conservatives are in power, and abusing their power.

 

 

[TGHusker]

Knapp - I would agree wt that. The sorry state right now is that the Repubs want to retain power - thus they are foot dragging on Trump investigations.  They are ramping up the other investigations on the Clintons (as noted in the Uranium thread) and as you have noted without reason to support those investigations - thus they need this also as a campaign issue against the 'corrupt Dems'. They will not touch the Niger issue as long as they need Trump to help them stay in power.  They haven't accomplished much this year and that only exasperates the issue.  If they had accomplished all of their major goals, maybe they would be less inclined to back up every stupid/harmful thing Trump does - but there is no guaranties wt this group as they have no spine.  The longer they need Trump and the longer Trump can string this dependency out the greater the delay in getting to the bottom of Niger. 

[BigRedBuster]

All of these situations need to be investigated to an extent somewhere between what Niger will be and what Benghazi was.

[Danny Bateman]

I just want to know what really happened in Niger. Everything I have read about the way it went down makes it sound pretty bad. And obviously the administration's trash response and Trump's awkward, damaging phone call to a widow, his choice to pick a public fight with her, his lie about contacting all Gold Star families... all of that is fairly regrettable. But I hope no one politicizes the deaths of American soldiers. Just get to the bottom of the circumstances surrounding their deaths. It was abhorrent when Republicans did it with Benghazi, and it would be abhorrent if Dems did it now. Politicizing military deaths for personal gain is wrong, period.

 

BRB, I'd agree with your friend's brother's assessment of the state of play of our military. Obama was overly cautious because he inherited a country deeply bitter about being sold a bill of goods to get dragged into Afghanistan & Iraq. I always felt you could see him looking over his shoulder at that fact every time he made a foreign policy decision. Trump has no such trepidations. But he also doesn't know jack about military decisions beyond what is given to him... which he probably struggles to pay attention to. So you're going to see him turn things over to those who do (the generals), for better or worse...

 

Depending on your views on foreign policy, this could be a very good or a very bad thing...

[TGHusker]

So I wonder how long before we get the real details??   If it doesn't show Trump in a positive light - it may be not until HFO.

[schriznoeder]

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

 

[TGHusker]

So know we strike ISIS in Somalia.  Granted Somalia has made the USA's Wild Wild West look like a tea party, but do we have card Blanche to bomb anywhere at any time?

What if Russia thought that some  Chechen rebels were hanging out in Alaska - would we look the other way when they bombed Alaska?  I think not.  So, I wonder what mandate or authorization do we have to fight these little wars all over Africa and Middle East.

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/11/03/u-s-military-carries-out-1st-airstrikes-against-isis-fighters-somalia/829704001/

[BigRedBuster]

33 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

So know we strike ISIS in Somalia.  Granted Somalia has made the USA's Wild Wild West look like a tea party, but do we have card Blanche to bomb anywhere at any time?

What if Russia thought that some  Chechen rebels were hanging out in Alaska - would we look the other way when they bombed Alaska?  I think not.  So, I wonder what mandate or authorization do we have to fight these little wars all over Africa and Middle East.

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/11/03/u-s-military-carries-out-1st-airstrikes-against-isis-fighters-somalia/829704001/

I have a real problem with this and I believe it's a major reason why so many people hate us around the world.

[TGHusker]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

I have a real problem with this and I believe it's a major reason why so many people hate us around the world.

I believe that to be the case.

[Big Red Commie]

If you don't want to end up murdered, don't join the U(Fascist)SA Imperialist Army.  I got no sympathy for them--they knew what they were signing up for-and they(UFSA Imperialist Army) are usually the ones doing the murdering around the world, for Big Corporate, of course.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Big Red Commie

[TonyStalloni]

1 hour ago, Big Red Commie said:

If you don't want to end up murdered, don't join the U(Fascist)SA Imperialist Army.  I got no sympathy for them--they knew what they were signing up for-and they(UFSA Imperialist Army) are usually the ones doing the murdering around the world, for Big Corporate, of course.

Hey comrade.  There are quite a few countries around the world where you would feel as safe as mommy's womb.  You worship the three stooges in your little picture and piss about our army.