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Incident in Manhatten


sho

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11 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I disagree. The religious nuts want to die, be remembered as a martyr, and go to whatever afterlife. Letting them live long enough to be forgotten is a much more fitting penalty.

Yeah, you have a good point.

 

Perhaps the middle ground is an execution that no one knows about.  

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24 minutes ago, teachercd said:

I would be more than okay with that.

 

Not to derail the thread, but I've had that discussion with friends before, mainly just as a devil's advocate, philosophical, bullsh!ttin around kind of conversation. It usually elicits some pretty interesting discourse. 

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4 minutes ago, Fru said:

 

Not to derail the thread, but I've had that discussion with friends before, mainly just as a devil's advocate, philosophical, bullsh!ttin around kind of conversation. It usually elicits some pretty interesting discourse. 

Shoot, Kennedy Sr had it done to his daughter!

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1 minute ago, teachercd said:

Shoot, Kennedy Sr had it done to his daughter!

 

Lol I meant more as a solution to the death penalty debate. Rosemary's story is pretty devastating and to my knowledge wasn't done as a punishment, but was a fairly popular medical "procedure" at the time.  

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17 hours ago, commando said:

 

don't worry.....that list will grow

 

I wonder how big that list can get?  Here's a list of the countries ISIS fighters are from (as of a year ago according to one academic study):

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2016/08/foreign-fighters-isis/493622/

 

1. Tunisia 6,000

2. Saudi Arabia 2,500

3. Russia 2,400

4. Turkey 2,100

5. Jordan 2,000

6. France 1,700

7. Morocco 1,200

8. Lebanon 900

9. Germany 760

10. UK 760

11. Indonesia 700

12. Egypt 600

13. Belgium 470

14. Tajikistan 386

15. Bosnia 330

 

and this is just the top-15.  There are many more, including most of Europe.

 

And here is a list of country-of-origin of Terrorists committing attacks in the US:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/01/trump-immigration-ban-terrorism/514361/

 

1. Saudi Arabia (2369 murders)

2. UAB (314 murders)

3. Egypt (162)

4. Lebanon (159)

5. Kuwait (6)

6. Cuba/Kyrgyzstan/Pakistan (3)

7. Palestine (2)

8. Armenia/Croatia/Taiwan/Trinidad (1)

9. 30+ other countries (0 murders)

 

obviously my point is that the travel ban is futile.  We would have to ban half of the earth.

 

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1 minute ago, Fru said:

 

Lol I meant more as a solution to the death penalty debate. Rosemary's story is pretty devastating and to my knowledge wasn't done as a punishment, but was a fairly popular medical "procedure" at the time.  

Ha...Yeah I know what you meant and I would be fine with it.  I think if you hurt someone...you should be hurt.

And yeah, back then it was pretty normal and of course senior didn't want anything f'ing up the Kennedy name

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1 minute ago, Kiyoat Husker said:

 

I wonder how big that list can get?  Here's a list of the countries ISIS fighters are from (as of a year ago according to one academic study):

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2016/08/foreign-fighters-isis/493622/

 

1. Tunisia 6,000

2. Saudi Arabia 2,500

3. Russia 2,400

4. Turkey 2,100

5. Jordan 2,000

6. France 1,700

7. Morocco 1,200

8. Lebanon 900

9. Germany 760

10. UK 760

11. Indonesia 700

12. Egypt 600

13. Belgium 470

14. Tajikistan 386

15. Bosnia 330

 

and this is just the top-15.  There are many more, including most of Europe.

 

And here is a list of country-of-origin of Terrorists committing attacks in the US:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/01/trump-immigration-ban-terrorism/514361/

 

1. Saudi Arabia (2369 murders)

2. UAB (314 murders)

3. Egypt (162)

4. Lebanon (159)

5. Kuwait (6)

6. Cuba/Kyrgyzstan/Pakistan (3)

7. Palestine (2)

8. Armenia/Croatia/Taiwan/Trinidad (1)

9. 30+ other countries (0 murders)

 

obviously my point is that the travel ban is futile.  We would have to ban half of the earth.

 

 

Regardless, isn't further restricting immigration just going to make the rest of the world dislike us even more?

Practically, building a bubble around the people that are already here isn't going to protect us. It's going to inflame and embolden the people who wish to do us harm. But I guess it will also make some people feel better, until it doesn't...

 

And since we're apparently governing on the basis of "feels over reals" now... 

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10 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

 

Regardless, isn't further restricting immigration just going to make the rest of the world dislike us even more?

Practically, building a bubble around the people that are already here isn't going to protect us. It's going to inflame and embolden the people who wish to do us harm....

 

Definitely.  In fact, the article I linked identified a "failure of muslim immigrants to integrate in society" as the major factor influencing the high rates of enlistment into ISIS for European countries.

 

Nordic countries rated high in "percent of muslim population enlisting".  Nordic countries are also highly culturally homogenous, and difficult to integrate into for dark-skinned muslims.

 

The harder we push the needy (i.e. refugees) of the world away, the worse our problem becomes.

Edited by Kiyoat Husker
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-york-shooting-uzbekistan/new-york-attack-suspect-an-uzbek-immigrant-turned-to-religion-in-u-s-associate-idUSKBN1D13U0

Quote

 

“He became religious on the spur of the moment,” Mirrakhmat Muminov, a truck driver and Uzbek community activist who lives in Stow, Ohio, told Reuters by phone.

[...]

“He started studying religion in the United States,” said Muminov, adding that Saipov “couldn’t get enough” of the religious freedoms enjoyed in the United States after living in the strict confines of Uzbekistan.

[...]

Muminov [...] painted a picture of a man who was struggling to make it in the United States, had few friends and poor communication and English language skills.

 

”He was withdrawn, nervous, sometimes aggressive. Because of that he was lonely, he lived in his own world. He was not very popular,” said Muminov. He said Saipov’s English was poor and he did not speak Russian very well. [...]

 

 

I know we don't have all the details yet, but it sounds to me like the major problem with this guy was integration into society, like many that ISIS brainwashes with online propaganda.  Not a problem that immigration restrictions will solve IMHO.

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