Jump to content


All things Poland


Excel

Recommended Posts


What is a "Trumpism?" 

 

Trump doesn't stand for anything. He latches on to whatever will roil the masses at the moment


 

Quote

 

“They must have known during that exact moment during Pope John Paul II’s sermon when a million Polish men, women and children suddenly raised their voices in a single prayer. A million Polish people did not ask for wealth. They did not ask for privilege. Instead, one million Poles sang three simple words: ‘We want God’,” Trump said to applause.

 

He continued, “As I stand here today before this incredible crowd, this faithful nation, we can still hear those voices that echo through history. Their message is as true today as ever. The people of Poland, the people of America, and the people of Europe still cry out ‘We want God’.”

 

 

Link to comment
2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

What is a "Trumpism?" 

 

Trump doesn't stand for anything. He latches on to whatever will roil the masses at the moment


 

 

 

I meant a Trump invention or whatever. I get that you're saying that there's no such thing but you should know what I mean. I don't want to get in to a conversation about him or make this about him. If this thread goes that direction I will bow out.

Edited by Excel
Link to comment

I think I take issue with the supporting links for your argument being pulled from agenda-driven alt-right fake news peddlers. I hope the source of your contextual knowledge of Poland doesn't derive from these sources.

 

..."an attack on the caricature of Liberals that conservative media portrays them to be"...

 

Yes. This is well put. It's what I'm getting out of this, too. Though I think it does conservatives a disservice. I mean, the WSJ is conservative media. There's a media caricature question but the source seems something different.

Edited by zoogs
Link to comment
5 minutes ago, zoogs said:

I think I take issue with the supporting links for your argument being pulled from agenda-driven alt-right fake news peddlers. I hope the source of your contextual knowledge of Poland doesn't derive from these sources.

 

Wasn't sure who you were talking about until I checked which tweets I linked and saw I'd used one from that Jack guy...which would explain why you brought him up. 

 

I wanted to find four tweets that disagreed on the issue or saw the march differently to provide some color to the thread. I searched Poland on twitter and found the first four from largish people. Like I said, I didn't know who that guy was until an hour ago and none of my opinions come from him. I also don't particularly care for Sally Kohn or Shaun King but I wanted to throw out multiple perspectives. Lazy work I know but no, nothing comes from him.

 

I've said before that I don't doubt there were Fascists and Nazis at the march today, or that they organized some of the marches that attracted large amounts of people. But I think it's alarmist to label the tens of thousands that showed up as members or fellow travelers one step away from supporting genocide or call the whole celebration a fascist event like Kohn is. They're building up a Nazi boogeyman for their own political reasons. 

Edited by Excel
Link to comment

Yeah, that makes sense. And I didn't think that's where you got your perspectives. Just bringing up the discrepancy between prop outlets feeding intentional disinformation and CNN/Intercept writers who latched on to a possibly inaccurate figure that bears correcting.

Link to comment

11 minutes ago, knapplc said:

I understand it's easier to keep this thread an attack on the caricature of Liberals that conservative media portrays them to be, but Trump is the opposite side of that coin and you cannot talk about one without understanding the tactics of the other. 

 

It's not a caricature, look at what Sally Kohn said, It's pretty spot on.... but that actually has nothing to do with why I don't want to talk about Trump. Here are the reasons:

 

1. I'm afraid the thread will get derailed

2. I don't feel he's super relevant to these events...but I welcome your perspective on that (not being facetious) 

3. I'm a Federal Employee so I generally abstain from talking about the President. I've tried my best with this one as I did with his predecessor.

4. Trump fatigue 

  • Plus1 1
Link to comment
1 minute ago, knapplc said:

I have no idea who Sally Kohn is. Where did you hear about her?

 

She's a liberal media personality and one of the tweets posted above. She said "Tens of thousands of neo Nazis showed up to march in Poland today and chant for an “all white Europe.”" which is casting a pretty wide net...and pretty much what I said  liberals were doing with this issue. I speculated on why they're doing it but I'm not an authority and I'm not a mod. Post about Trump if you want, there's nothing I can do about it.

Link to comment
8 minutes ago, knapplc said:

EDIT - OK, I googled her.  Do you think she is more or less indicative of Liberals than Roy Moore is of Conservatives?

 

I wouldn't know as I'm not a liberal and people like Roy Moore are why I no longer feel comfortable identifying as a conservative. If you can find people you feel are more representative of the wider liberal opinion on all of this I would welcome it but it would not dismiss the Kohns and Kings.

Edited by Excel
Link to comment

I think the issue there is the number. If the WSJ reporting is accurate -- that this same event has historically drawn hundreds, but it has greatly increased in the last few years, to 60,000 this year -- it seems clear that "all 60,000 are Neo-Nazis" is a lazy misreading that needs to be amended. In fact, an actual reading of the WSJ article should make it clear that there's no opposition to a celebration of Poland independence. I'm still a bit confused as to where the idea that the liberal media/ West wants to tear down Polish independence comes from...but on this count, I clearly have less context for Poland than you do.

 

None of that takes away from the general gist of the article, and all of the public sources that are vociferously fighting for that (I don't mean you) appear to be fake news.

 

If this is going to come down to "I support the anti-immigration wave in Europe and condemn the liberals in America who oppose it", then we'll be at loggerheads, but it would make sense. I know plenty of people who feel that way.

 

 

Link to comment
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...