Jump to content


Senator Al Franken accused of sexual assault.


QMany

Recommended Posts


55 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Remember when the breaking narrative was that the liberal media and hypocritical feminists would forgive Hollywood Dem donor Harvey Weinstein for the kind of behavior they savaged in Trump, Ailes and O'Riely?

 

Weinstein - Out

Charlie Rose - Out

Matt Lauer - Out

Kevin Spacey (Gay!) - Out

John Conyers - Out

Garrison Keilor - Out

Louis C.K. - Out

Michael Oreskes (NPR News Chief) - Out

John Lasseter - Out

 

Donald Trump - still President, now claims Access Hollywood was a hoax

Roy Moore -- winning his election: go get 'em, Roy!

 

 

 

Maybe the Dems aren't so Godless after all, Ann. 

image.png.c851333dd8128b239322f0e199290975.png

  • Plus1 1
Link to comment

Hearing reports that he’s going to announce his resignation tomorrow . At first I thought he should,  but the more I’m thinking it’s the wrong move . If denying,lying, attempting to smear and discredit your accusers etc,  works for Moore and Trump I say Al should have done it too . Taking the high road will cost him his job, us a good senator, and make the left look weak. Ugh

Link to comment

If that makes the left look weak, we should recalibrate what we consider to be strength. If denying, lying, and smearing his accusers works for Al, it comes at immense cost not only to the women being smeared but to all of the values he (and we, I should hope) fight for. The act itself would render not only Franken no longer a "good senator" by any measure, but make monsters of ourselves as well in permitting it.

 

@knapplc, at what point can we say "we know" for anybody's accusers? Roy Moore? Harvey Weinstein? You're right, I'm assuming those things are true, but it isn't a completely contextless assumption. It was based on his response. I think an innocent person would fight to keep his job, yes. An innocent person would also say "I did not do these things", and not "I'm just a huggy person and I didn't mean to make anyone uncomfortable." Al Franken does not issue a categorical denial of these events and the reasonable conclusion to draw, I think, is it is because he cannot.

  • Plus1 2
Link to comment

At what point are we monsters for allowing the same, and  even worse, behavior from members of the right though?  Why aren't the Democratic senators that called for Franken's resignation doing the same for Trump and Moore? Al is supposed to resign in disgrace for improper conduct, while others who , if proven guilty, could actually be convicted of crimes, are allowed to just deny everything, and retain their positions? 

Edited by Big Red 40
Link to comment

We don't "allow" it -- those things happen despite our utmost protests. Surely you cannot be confused about the distinction between this and "we should support Al Franken not resigning". In fact I think it's resolutely clear what Democratic lawmakers across the board feel about Trump and Moore. And yes, Al is supposed to resign in disgrace. It should have happened long ago. If there is any actual interest in holding the Moores, etc of the world accountable, we don't turn a blind eye when it's one of our own.

 

I'm not familiar with the law in every state. I would hope in all of them that sexual assault meets the bar for 'criminal'. 

 

--

Update to the above. It appears that just yesterday(?) another allegation did come out, and this time Franken did deny this particular one, literally using the term "categorically" https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/al-franken-accusation-sexual-harassment-2006-281049 However, it's a story that was corroborated by two others. If this allegation isn't somehow an outright lie, yikes.

 

Also from yesterday, "I Believe Franken’s Accusers Because He Groped Me, Too": https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/i-believe-frankens-accusers-because-he-groped-me-too/547691/

 

Edited by zoogs
Link to comment

 

If this doesn't "feel right" then what's her suggestion?  As I see it, we have two options:

 

1)  totally 100% believe a woman when she accuses a man of doing something inappropriate and he should lose his job instantly.

 

Or....

 

2)  We come to some form of reasonableness where a woman feels comfortable coming forward and complaining and then an appropriate investigation is used to decide what happens from there.  And....there would be levels of punishment based on various factors involved.

Edited by BigRedBuster
  • Plus1 3
Link to comment

This feels completely right, and overdue. Franken can have his respectable career in the Senate and still be recognized as someone whose conduct required a resignation. I will just say that people who put their fandom of Franken's politics and Senate work above all else do not share my priorities. 

 

Al Franken is not a victim of anyone other than himself. He wants to be remembered with honor for the (quite honorable) political work he did; note that in his speech his claim is narrowly focused: "nothing I have done as a Senator has brought dishonor on this institution." He will be remembered for both, because respect for one should not simply blind us to the other. And that quoted statement cannot continue to be true were he to continue serving after all this came to light.

 

NPR story on his resignation: https://www.npr.org/2017/12/07/568909860/sen-al-franken-to-make-announcement-amid-calls-for-him-to-resign

NY Times on his apology: https://www.npr.org/2017/12/07/568909860/sen-al-franken-to-make-announcement-amid-calls-for-him-to-resign

 

I don't think Franken is such a bad guy, to be clear (though had he continued, he would have become one). It's quite possible he did all of these as a matter of course, not remembering and not even fathoming he could have been doing this to them. That doesn't make any of it any better. I expect he's quite earnest when he says "I'm going to try to learn from my mistakes....I've been doing a lot of reflecting." It seems this will be necessary for him. His resignation matches actions to those words.

Edited by zoogs
Link to comment

 

4 minutes ago, zoogs said:

This feels completely right, and overdue. Franken can have his respectable career in the Senate and still be recognized as someone whose conduct required a resignation. I will just say that people who put their fandom of Franken's politics and Senate work above all else do not share my priorities. 

 

Al Franken is not a victim of anyone other than himself. He wants to be remembered with honor for the (quite honorable) political work he did; note that in his speech his claim is narrowly focused: "nothing I have done as a Senator has brought dishonor on this institution." He will be remembered for both, because respect for one should not simply blind us to the other. And that quoted statement cannot continue to be true were he to continue serving after all this came to light.

 

NPR story on his resignation: https://www.npr.org/2017/12/07/568909860/sen-al-franken-to-make-announcement-amid-calls-for-him-to-resign

NY Times on his apology: https://www.npr.org/2017/12/07/568909860/sen-al-franken-to-make-announcement-amid-calls-for-him-to-resign

 

I don't think Franken is such a bad guy, to be clear (though had he continued, he would have become one). It's quite possible he did all of these as a matter of course, not remembering and not even fathoming he could have been doing this to them. That doesn't make any of it any better. I expect he's quite earnest when he says "I'm going to try to learn from my mistakes....I've been doing a lot of reflecting." It seems this will be necessary for him. His resignation matches actions to those words.

 

And frankly, there's nothing preventing him from running again in a few years. If he did a good job (which he has) and he's truly repentant (which he seems to be), then if the voters approve him going back...

  • Plus1 1
Link to comment

Yup, exactly. I imagine that'll be a preeeeetty tough case for him to make, in particular because we'll remember his fumbling apologies, but whether he can is up to him. People who have done far worse are far more easily rehabilitated. I hope there's simultaneously a push to really raise the bar here. Not so as to be impossible to clear, but to ask far more from those who would seek it.

Link to comment
35 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:
1)  totally 100% believe a woman when she accuses a man of doing something inappropriate and he should lose his job instantly.

 

Or....

 

2)  We come to some form of reasonableness where a woman feels comfortable coming forward and complaining and then an appropriate investigation is used to decide what happens from there.  And....there would be levels of punishment based on various factors involved.

 

 

Completely agree that reasonable measures should be taken to encourage women to feel safe to make accusations if they have been, or feel they have been, sexually harassed/assaulted.

 

Also completely agree with the idea that it is wrong that we would knee-jerk to the idea that every woman who makes an accusation is telling the truth.  Men have rights, and men have been ruined by false accusations.  Simply taking a woman's word for it because women have been, in the past, sexually assaulted/harassed by men is terribly dangerous and an absolute travesty of justice.

 

We are in a scary place right now in our effort to empower women, where - without proof - a sitting Senator has been forced out of office.  He has been convicted of nothing, and although the evidence is mounting, there is no proof for any of these allegations. 

 

This kind of witch hunt mentality will backfire against women eventually.  It'll be McCarthyism all over again, and when the dust settles women will have less empowerment, not more.  I absolutely guarantee that once this hysteria wears off there will be a backlash, and it will only take one man showing the accusations against him false for this whole thing to come crashing down. 

 

We are doing a disservice to women by forcing Franken out of office this way.  Due process is always the best way to accomplish goals. 

Link to comment

Disagree in the strongest of terms, especially with the statement that "we are doing a disservice to women".

 

These are reported on, responded to allegations and a month has passed since the first. There's nothing "knee jerk" or "witch hunt" about this. Franken hasn't been charged with crime, and this is a strange invocation of the 5th amendment. You don't have to be convicted of a crime to find yourself in a position where resigning your public office is necessary.

Link to comment
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...