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Chadhusker

The old diamond formation

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HuskermanMike    330

Imagine Tanner Lee in the Triangle Formation and actually trying to run it. 

 

If you want to know what kind of offense Frost will run I recommend you watch some UCF highlights from this year. 

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knapplc    19,301

"old"

 

Nebraska first used this formation in 2011, six years ago.

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Chadhusker    8

I think if we can get a good back in this class to go with some of the backs we have now it could be good. Sounds like their going after qbs pretty hard. Terry Wilson would be scary good . 

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Landlord    7,848
1 hour ago, knapplc said:

"old"

 

Nebraska first used this formation in 2011, six years ago.

 

 

Slightly off-topic, but man Beck had some really great ideas for an offensive identity here that he could never quite fully realize or put all the pieces together with.

 

I'd love if Frost adjusted his scheme towards a little bit more of a heavy-set/power focus, at least at times, as sort of an entirely realized and modernized Nebraska power running attack using a lot of those same ideas. Beck hardly ever ran the diamond, and it always drove us nuts because nearly every single time he did it resulted in huge yardage.

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Moiraine    5,955

Beck was very inconsistent. I'm not very knowledgeable about offense other than knowing what the plays are named, and maybe a few other details. But from what I've read of Frost and from what I saw of Beck, Frost plays chess and Beck plays checkers.

Edited by Moiraine

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lo country    2,433
13 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Slightly off-topic, but man Beck had some really great ideas for an offensive identity here that he could never quite fully realize or put all the pieces together with.

 

I'd love if Frost adjusted his scheme towards a little bit more of a heavy-set/power focus, at least at times, as sort of an entirely realized and modernized Nebraska power running attack using a lot of those same ideas. Beck hardly ever ran the diamond, and it always drove us nuts because nearly every single time he did it resulted in huge yardage.

I can see Frost running what you described above.  A spread team with power principles.  Use counters and traps to complement his spread option RPO style.  

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BlitzFirst    1,032
2 hours ago, cheekygeek said:

It's not Frost's offense that I'm concerned about.

 

#GoCodeRed

 

 

You should be.

 

 

He's lacking the cogs he needs to make his offense go...which is why he's offering tons of RB's and trying to get a JUCO QB.

 

IF we strike out on those...we're going to have quite a bad year on the offensive side of the ball.

 

Frost does not have a magic wand he can wave to make our square peg offense guys fit into his offensive schemes' round holes.  He may be a good and maybe great coach...but he's not a wizard.

 

 

I'm more worried about the offense than I am the defense at this point in time.

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Moiraine    5,955
1 minute ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

 

You should be.

 

 

He's lacking the cogs he needs to make his offense go...which is why he's offering tons of RB's and trying to get a JUCO QB.

 

IF we strike out on those...we're going to have quite a bad year on the offensive side of the ball.

 

Frost does not have a magic wand he can wave to make our square peg offense guys fit into his offensive schemes' round holes.  He may be a good and maybe great coach...but he's not a wizard.

 

 

I'm more worried about the offense than I am the defense at this point in time.

 

 

 

The thing is, our offense which was supposed to be round peg in round hole this year was mediocre or worse. I'd bet on Frost's being better even if we don't get a good new QB.

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BlitzFirst    1,032
10 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

 

The thing is, our offense which was supposed to be round peg in round hole this year was mediocre or worse. I'd bet on Frost's being better even if we don't get a good new QB.

 

 

I wouldn't. Pocket passers aren't good runners.

 

I realize people will point out POB and Gebbia's numbers from high school...but this is college ball.  They won't even come close to those numbers....and we NEED THEM TO in order to succeed.

 

Frost can't wave a wand and make everything ok on offense.  He needs the tools to be in place and we just don't have them right now.  I stand by my position...I'm more worried about our offense than our defense.  They're the ones changing schemes.

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ColoradoHusk    4,260
11 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

 

I wouldn't. Pocket passers aren't good runners.

 

I realize people will point out POB and Gebbia's numbers from high school...but this is college ball.  They won't even come close to those numbers....and we NEED THEM TO in order to succeed.

 

Frost can't wave a wand and make everything ok on offense.  He needs the tools to be in place and we just don't have them right now.  I stand by my position...I'm more worried about our offense than our defense.  They're the ones changing schemes.

I agree that the offensive improvement won’t come overnight. In fact, UCF’s D was their strength in 2016. I’m concerned about the RB position next year. I like Jaylin Bradley overall and Ozigbo in short yardage situations, but Frost needs to bring in 2-3 RB’s in this recruiting class. I don’t think we can depend on Tre Bryant being a major contributor going forward. Chronic knee issues concern me.  Frost’s offense threw the ball around a lot this year, but it’s still an offense based on a strong running game. 

Edited by ColoradoHusk

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Mavric    10,367
3 hours ago, Moiraine said:

The thing is, our offense which was supposed to be round peg in round hole this year was mediocre or worse. I'd bet on Frost's being better even if we don't get a good new QB.

 

This.  So much this.

 

We were #87 in the county in yards per game this year.  One more first down per quarter (40 yards per game) would put us near the Top 40.  I won’t be at all surprised if we’re scaring the Top 20 (+80 yards per game).

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brophog    847
25 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

This.  So much this.

 

We were #87 in the county in yards per game this year.  One more first down per quarter (40 yards per game) would put us near the Top 40.  I won’t be at all surprised if we’re scaring the Top 20 (+80 yards per game).

 

I think the defense will surprise people this year and the offense will not meet the high expectations. It's the norm for new coaches, even offense oriented new coaches, for the defensive improvement to outpace the offensive improvement.

 

Somewhere between top 40 and top 50 in yards per game is my guess. Top 20, barring we aren't being blown out commensurate to this year and accumulating garbage time stats, would mean enormous things for year 2. 

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chamrocck    310

Every time we lined up in the diamond was exciting.  I recall having some big plays off that formation.  

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Kiyoat Husker    1,508
12 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

I'd love if Frost adjusted his scheme towards a little bit more of a heavy-set/power focus, at least at times, as sort of an entirely realized and modernized Nebraska power running attack using a lot of those same ideas.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that basically a description of what Meyer runs at OSU?  Not that that's a bad thing.

Edited by Kiyoat Husker

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BlitzFirst    1,032
8 hours ago, Mavric said:

 

This.  So much this.

 

We were #87 in the county in yards per game this year.  One more first down per quarter (40 yards per game) would put us near the Top 40.  I won’t be at all surprised if we’re scaring the Top 20 (+80 yards per game).

 

Pump the brakes Mavric.

 

Sunshine is flowing eh?

 

Did our OLine instantly become serviceable?  Did we instantly get a dual threat QB to run frosts plays?  Did we instantly get TE's that can block and more than one that can catch?  Did we instantly get more than 3 receivers that can separate from coverage?

 

I'm all for having some improvement...and if what you say is true, I'll be completely happy.  But the fact is, the only side of the ball changing scheme is the offense.  There is going to be some growing pains there and I think no one is really thinking this will happen.

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teachercd    3,224

I am hoping that good coaching can make a big difference in what we see on the field.  Who knows, maybe the last staff did do a good job and maybe the players are maxed out but I would like to think that they can look better and be better.  

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Moiraine    5,955
8 hours ago, brophog said:

 

I think the defense will surprise people this year and the offense will not meet the high expectations. It's the norm for new coaches, even offense oriented new coaches, for the defensive improvement to outpace the offensive improvement.

 

Somewhere between top 40 and top 50 in yards per game is my guess. Top 20, barring we aren't being blown out commensurate to this year and accumulating garbage time stats, would mean enormous things for year 2. 

 

 

The expectations are not high. Better than this year is not high expectations.

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Moiraine    5,955
20 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

Pump the brakes Mavric.

 

Sunshine is flowing eh?

 

Did our OLine instantly become serviceable?  Did we instantly get a dual threat QB to run frosts plays?  Did we instantly get TE's that can block and more than one that can catch?  Did we instantly get more than 3 receivers that can separate from coverage?

 

I'm all for having some improvement...and if what you say is true, I'll be completely happy.  But the fact is, the only side of the ball changing scheme is the offense.  There is going to be some growing pains there and I think no one is really thinking this will happen.

 

 

You must not have read the topics where people are predicting our record. I haven't seen anyone with unreasonable expectations yet.

 

And we have the talent for many of the things in your first paragraph to improve a lot with good coaching. Same with the defense. The talent is there. And with the suddenly getting a dual threat QB, we seem pretty high on 2 of them.

Edited by Moiraine

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BlitzFirst    1,032

It's not that Moirane, its more of the people talking about how absolutely breakneck our offense will be next year.  And no one is really worried about the offense...all I see is "are we going to fix the defense".

 

I realize Diaco scammed us all and made a mockery of that side of the ball...but I just think the offense is broken as well and I don't see Frost having an easy fix of it in 1 year.  Improvement?  Yep.  But I've seen people on the board here think we'll be a top 20 offense...because Frost.  I just don't know how that can happen.

 

If it does?  Hellls ya.  But I'm not going to hold my breath. 

 

Both side of the ball were WORSE than any Husker team I've seen in the past 30 years.  Only one year of Frost won't change that considerably...this is a rebuild from the ground up.

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BigRedBuster    8,066
15 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Slightly off-topic, but man Beck had some really great ideas for an offensive identity here that he could never quite fully realize or put all the pieces together with.

 

I'd love if Frost adjusted his scheme towards a little bit more of a heavy-set/power focus, at least at times, as sort of an entirely realized and modernized Nebraska power running attack using a lot of those same ideas. Beck hardly ever ran the diamond, and it always drove us nuts because nearly every single time he did it resulted in huge yardage.

I would prefer Frost to come in and run what he is confident with and has had success with before.

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husker98    131
1 hour ago, BlitzFirst said:

It's not that Moirane, its more of the people talking about how absolutely breakneck our offense will be next year.  And no one is really worried about the offense...all I see is "are we going to fix the defense".

 

I realize Diaco scammed us all and made a mockery of that side of the ball...but I just think the offense is broken as well and I don't see Frost having an easy fix of it in 1 year.  Improvement?  Yep.  But I've seen people on the board here think we'll be a top 20 offense...because Frost.  I just don't know how that can happen.

 

If it does?  Hellls ya.  But I'm not going to hold my breath. 

 

Both side of the ball were WORSE than any Husker team I've seen in the past 30 years.  Only one year of Frost won't change that considerably...this is a rebuild from the ground up.

 

In my opinion there will be a Big jump with both units next year. 

 

Your concerns are valid. But again in my opinion much of that is correctable due to the primary underlying issue being the programs culture and on field effort.

 

Gebbia and POB are good enough to make this offense go at a high, albeit not elite level. Wilbon and ozigbo are good enough to in a similar way as well.

 

On the line I get the feeling an open competition is about to take place and we will end up with our best 5 guys come fall next year.

 

This isn't exactly a square peg round hole situation, more like and oval to round hole. 

 

Nothing a sledgehammer can't pound through.

 

6 to 8 wins is on the table next year. Results depending on how quick the kids embrace the culture.

 

 

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Landlord    7,848
14 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I would prefer Frost to come in and run what he is confident with and has had success with before.

 

 

I obviously would too. I meant it more as a, "Oh man, that would be so cool if..." hypothetical.

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BlitzFirst    1,032
32 minutes ago, husker98 said:

 

In my opinion there will be a Big jump with both units next year. 

 

Your concerns are valid. But again in my opinion much of that is correctable due to the primary underlying issue being the programs culture and on field effort.

 

Gebbia and POB are good enough to make this offense go at a high, albeit not elite level. Wilbon and ozigbo are good enough to in a similar way as well.

 

On the line I get the feeling an open competition is about to take place and we will end up with our best 5 guys come fall next year.

 

This isn't exactly a square peg round hole situation, more like and oval to round hole. 

 

Nothing a sledgehammer can't pound through.

 

6 to 8 wins is on the table next year. Results depending on how quick the kids embrace the culture.

 

 

 

 

I agree, 6 to 8 winds is doable.  But I disagree that POB or Gebbia will make the offense hum.  I also think our backs, specifically the two you mention, are not fast enough for the perimeter runs, slants, veers,etc in Frost's offense.

 

I think we have a longer way to go offensively than we do defensively.

Edited by BlitzFirst
Offender? Offense

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husker98    131
5 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

 

I agree, 6 to 8 winds is doable.  But I disagree that POB or Gebbia will make the offender hum.  I also think our backs, specifically the two you mention, are not fast enough for the perimeter runs, slants, veers,etc in Frost's offense.

 

I think we have a longer way to go offensively than we do defensively.

 

Oh yea you are correct there, those backs cannot do that at a level needed to be successful consistently.

 

But I get the feeling they won't be asked to do that.

If anything I'd wager Scott will construct his offense to play to their strengths.

 

Same to be said with our QBs. 

 

The offense won't look identical to what he ran at UCF. And it probably won't until he has the personnel he needs to run it.

 

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Cdog923    1,259

You guys have had 4 months to get prepared for Frost's offense. He's going to run what he's comfortable with, and what has worked for him. 

 

The first time anyone complains about shotgun on 3rd and 2, I'm going to laugh. 

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BlitzFirst    1,032
10 minutes ago, husker98 said:

 

Oh yea you are correct there, those backs cannot do that at a level needed to be successful consistently.

 

But I get the feeling they won't be asked to do that.

If anything I'd wager Scott will construct his offense to play to their strengths.

 

Same to be said with our QBs. 

 

The offense won't look identical to what he ran at UCF. And it probably won't until he has the personnel he needs to run it.

 

Hope you're right and we find a way to make it work!

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husker98    131
13 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

You guys have had 4 months to get prepared for Frost's offense. He's going to run what he's comfortable with, and what has worked for him. 

 

The first time anyone complains about shotgun on 3rd and 2, I'm going to laugh. 

 

Considering this is the same offense that had pocket pro style passers and old school power backs at Oregon. And still won it's division. I'm just pointing out it's flexibility to respond to the players that are running it. 

 

And I agree I'm going to laugh too because for many people it hasn't dawned on them yet they we are now a spread team. 

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Cdog923    1,259
19 minutes ago, husker98 said:

 

Considering this is the same offense that had pocket pro style passers and old school power backs at Oregon. And still won it's division. I'm just pointing out it's flexibility to respond to the players that are running it. 

 

And I agree I'm going to laugh too because for many people it hasn't dawned on them yet they we are now a spread team. 

 

I don't disagree; the flexibility will be a breath of fresh air compared to the "motion into a tight 3x1 formation" we ran every. single. play last year. 

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4 hours ago, Moiraine said:

I'm not worried about either - I think they'll both be improved. But I think we'll win 6-7 games.

Yeah this is where I am. On defense, I think we will see a much more aggressive unit that flies to the ball but will get burned on big plays from time to time. As opposed to this year where we had a passive lethargic defense that frequently got burned on big plays. 

 

On offense I agree we don’t have the dudes to do what he did at UCF right away. Mainly because of the Oline. I think we will probably have a good shot being serviceable at the skill positions with a few hits in the JUCO ranks but the Oline will take some time. 

 

I took the over over on the prop bet at 6.5. I really think we can get 7 wins next year

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irafreak    722
5 hours ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

Pump the brakes Mavric.

 

Sunshine is flowing eh?

 

Did our OLine instantly become serviceable?  Did we instantly get a dual threat QB to run frosts plays?  Did we instantly get TE's that can block and more than one that can catch?  Did we instantly get more than 3 receivers that can separate from coverage?

 

I'm all for having some improvement...and if what you say is true, I'll be completely happy.  But the fact is, the only side of the ball changing scheme is the offense.  There is going to be some growing pains there and I think no one is really thinking this will happen.

Technique, technique, technique. I will be disappointed if the line doesn't improve next year. Too many guys tripping over their own feet. Frost can scheme around the weaknesses on offense. That said, we won 4 games this year. I'm perfectly ok with 6 wins in 2018.

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Chadhusker    8
1 hour ago, irafreak said:

Technique, technique, technique. I will be disappointed if the line doesn't improve next year. Too many guys tripping over their own feet. Frost can scheme around the weaknesses on offense. That said, we won 4 games this year. I'm perfectly ok with 6 wins in 2018.

They will be improved . I have faith in frost and his coaches . 

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84HuskerLaw    538

I find it interesting how many on here are now predicting 6 or 7 wins for next year when a month ago, that was just totally unacceptable and as such, Riley had to go even before the season was over.  

 

I think 8 wins is very reasonable for this fall IF as many on this board insist we have the best "talent" in the Big Ten west.  Some on here insist we have the talent to win the Big Ten.  I disagree strongly and I think this season demonstrated that our talent level is somewhere around the upper end of the bottom half of the conference.   I don't buy the recruiting rankings as the stars are awarded using a magic 8 ball or ouigi board or maybe just drawn from a hat I suspect.  Over the past 5 decades, the great majority of NU's best players were NOT highly regarded recruits and many were even walk ons and or not even rated.

 

I think far too many coaches and programs are recruiting using the rankings and so on instead of doing their own homework and searching.   Coaches need to get out there and watch games and recruit and evaluable personally.   It seems to me that we've offered literally many hundreds of players - a virtual shotgun approach - and this suggests to me that we may not have had real serious involvement with many of the players offered.  It looks like we simply took the top 200 players by position and just offered a bunch of each.  Hopefully, they do a lot better job in finding true diamonds in the rough rather than just power shopping and impulse buying.  

 

I am not sure what is meant by the 'diamond' formation.  I recall Osborne had a backfield in the diamond formation (I believe it was referred to as the Osbone).   I know we ran plays out of the formation.  Perhaps this isn't at all what it meant.     

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On 12/7/2017 at 8:50 AM, husker98 said:

This isn't exactly a square peg round hole situation, more like and oval to round hole. 

 

Nothing a sledgehammer can't pound through.

 

Give me a sledgehammer and I'll pound that square peg into the round hole.  :lol:

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krc1995    698
2 hours ago, 84HuskerLaw said:

I find it interesting how many on here are now predicting 6 or 7 wins for next year when a month ago, that was just totally unacceptable and as such, Riley had to go even before the season was over.  

 

I think 8 wins is very reasonable for this fall IF as many on this board insist we have the best "talent" in the Big Ten west.  Some on here insist we have the talent to win the Big Ten.  I disagree strongly and I think this season demonstrated that our talent level is somewhere around the upper end of the bottom half of the conference.   I don't buy the recruiting rankings as the stars are awarded using a magic 8 ball or ouigi board or maybe just drawn from a hat I suspect.  Over the past 5 decades, the great majority of NU's best players were NOT highly regarded recruits and many were even walk ons and or not even rated.

 

I think far too many coaches and programs are recruiting using the rankings and so on instead of doing their own homework and searching.   Coaches need to get out there and watch games and recruit and evaluable personally.   It seems to me that we've offered literally many hundreds of players - a virtual shotgun approach - and this suggests to me that we may not have had real serious involvement with many of the players offered.  It looks like we simply took the top 200 players by position and just offered a bunch of each.  Hopefully, they do a lot better job in finding true diamonds in the rough rather than just power shopping and impulse buying.  

 

I am not sure what is meant by the 'diamond' formation.  I recall Osborne had a backfield in the diamond formation (I believe it was referred to as the Osbone).   I know we ran plays out of the formation.  Perhaps this isn't at all what it meant.     

I think we ran the diamond with Martinez and Burkhead.  I'm not sure, I guess I could look up old threads.  I really liked it at the time.

 

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I.M. OLD    59

If I recall we have two kids that would have played alot at receiver that were hurt before the season. After hearing about the team from a kid that played this year, and the McBride podcast, IF the kids buy in, which I actually think they will, IF the line can block, which with coaching, is actually possible, and IF they can learn to tackle, which they should be able to learn, they will be fine, like 7-8 wins. Top that off, with the FACT that the players that performed the best were NOT always the ones on the field there should be a huge upswing on the field. Your not going to see kids that are not performing staying on the field after constant screw ups, and lack of effort. We fired the Tazmanian Devil, fired the Easter Bunny and now we have Wile Coyote. Hip Hip.....

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