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Old offenses v “new offenses”

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I am I    430

We’ve had Callahan, Reilly, Solich, Pellini...now Frost. 

 

 

I excpect us to at least move the ball and score points. The intangibles will have to wait. The superior blocking and open spaces will have to wait. Finding the right cogs in this machine to click may have to wait...but it will come. 

 

 I pose this:  is an “up to date, fast paced offense” that kids are playing since middle school, just exactly the thing we need to start clicking?  

 

Watching a Taylor Martinez and Roy Helu work, vs a Tanner Lee and JD Spielman run offense vs a SF offense just be that much better? 

 

Will it work because it’s new and fast and innovative; were the offenses we had just outmoded and stiff?

I think we’re about to embark on a new set that is modern, yet relies on simple old football. 

 

Will SF offenses generate what we think it will, simply because it’s pretty cutting edge or are the Reilly and Callahan offenses just too damn “old”? 

 

Ive watched all the clips from SF offenses and the break downs therein and I’m excited, but how could those old offenses just suck so bad?

 

Im excited but reserved i guess. 

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chamrocck    310

We should see a lot of Run Pass Option and if executed very well this can be deadly.  The QB needs to be a special player to make it all work.  Put fast pieces in place and you have an offense that can overwhelm teams and never be out of any game.  When I see high powered offenses like some we have seen in the past at Oregon, UCF, Baylor, and Texas Tech they never are able to put elite defenses on the field.  If Nebraska can do this then Frost will be a championship coach.  The exciting flashy part will be some of the offense we run but the tell tale signal to me will be about if we can put a highly athletic superior defense on the field. Defenses that play alongside these offenses are on the field a lot.  It will take a special combination of players to make an elite defense that is on the field a lot.  I think someone like Bookie would relish this type of opportunity.  We'll see.       

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Red_Payne    75

I truly believe that, no matter where or what football evolves into, the battle at the line of scrimmage is what wins the majority of plays; and thus, games. It's just what football is at it's core.

No offense... 'NO' offense, can be successful if the defensive line gets consistent penetration into the offenses backfield.

By the same token, Any offense can have success if the O-line is dominant at what they do (unless you are SEVERELY hampered at QB)...

Wash St. offense would be unstoppable if they put together an O-line that could consistently give the QB 3,4,5 seconds to read the D and make a good decision and deliver a good ball. 'Bama/Wisc. look unstoppable when their Line gets a consistent push and eventually wears down the defense.

Stacking the box/LOS is what teams try to do to beat the fast paced spread offenses of today; but still, if the o-line can beat the D's front 7/8, the offense becomes unstoppable by exposing the 1-on-1 match-up problems that arise when you play that style of defense.

 

Win at the LOS... win the game.

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brophog    846

 

2 hours ago, I am I said:

Will SF offenses generate what we think it will, simply because it’s pretty cutting edge or are the Reilly and Callahan offenses just too damn “old”? 

 

The big difference between some of our better offenses of the past few coaches, and I wouldn't consider the Riley era in that statement at all, and Frost or Osborne is the (in)ability to consistently generate big plays. Any offense that can reduce the field to 1 on 1 in space has the ability to get big plays and big plays are necessary to score big points. If you can score in 2 plays vs 10 plays, you drastically reduce drive killing errors.

 

This is why Frost is trying so hard to recruit speed. Speed is what turns schemes into special.

 

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MichiganDad3    961
5 hours ago, Red_Payne said:

I truly believe that, no matter where or what football evolves into, the battle at the line of scrimmage is what wins the majority of plays; and thus, games. It's just what football is at it's core.

No offense... 'NO' offense, can be successful if the defensive line gets consistent penetration into the offenses backfield.

By the same token, Any offense can have success if the O-line is dominant at what they do (unless you are SEVERELY hampered at QB)...

Wash St. offense would be unstoppable if they put together an O-line that could consistently give the QB 3,4,5 seconds to read the D and make a good decision and deliver a good ball. 'Bama/Wisc. look unstoppable when their Line gets a consistent push and eventually wears down the defense.

Stacking the box/LOS is what teams try to do to beat the fast paced spread offenses of today; but still, if the o-line can beat the D's front 7/8, the offense becomes unstoppable by exposing the 1-on-1 match-up problems that arise when you play that style of defense.

 

Win at the LOS... win the game.

I completely agree, and that is why I am amazed when our DCs want our DL to control gaps and not to penetrate.

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TonyStalloni    607

We've had a veritable dukes mixture of offenses at Nebraska the last 15 years led by Qb's with varied skills and forced to play with O lines that often underperformed.  The years we had championship defenses we had anemic offenses.  Recruiting will be essential to get all the pieces we need on both sides of the ball.  A huge piece of the puzzle is a QB similar to Marcus Marriota who is elusive and can throw on the roll out or run when needed and get that 5 to 7 yard gain instead of a 10 yard sack.  That is not to discount having talent all over the field including O and D lines that don't back down from anyone, running backs who can get the tough yards, speed at the skill positions and depth.  Kinda sounds like Clemson who has held their own vs the better defenses like Ohio St and Alabama.

Edited by TonyStalloni

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BlitzFirst    1,032
8 hours ago, I am I said:

We’ve had Callahan, Reilly, Solich, Pellini...now Frost. 

 

 

I excpect us to at least move the ball and score points. The intangibles will have to wait. The superior blocking and open spaces will have to wait. Finding the right cogs in this machine to click may have to wait...but it will come. 

 

 I pose this:  is an “up to date, fast paced offense” that kids are playing since middle school, just exactly the thing we need to start clicking?  

 

Watching a Taylor Martinez and Roy Helu work, vs a Tanner Lee and JD Spielman run offense vs a SF offense just be that much better? 

 

Will it work because it’s new and fast and innovative; were the offenses we had just outmoded and stiff?

I think we’re about to embark on a new set that is modern, yet relies on simple old football. 

 

Will SF offenses generate what we think it will, simply because it’s pretty cutting edge or are the Reilly and Callahan offenses just too damn “old”? 

 

Ive watched all the clips from SF offenses and the break downs therein and I’m excited, but how could those old offenses just suck so bad?

 

Im excited but reserved i guess. 

 

 

Brandon Reilly coaches?  I thought he was still in the NFL?

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Crazyhole    53
5 hours ago, brophog said:

 

 

The big difference between some of our better offenses of the past few coaches, and I wouldn't consider the Riley era in that statement at all, and Frost or Osborne is the (in)ability to consistently generate big plays. Any offense that can reduce the field to 1 on 1 in space has the ability to get big plays and big plays are necessary to score big points. If you can score in 2 plays vs 10 plays, you drastically reduce drive killing errors.

 

This is why Frost is trying so hard to recruit speed. Speed is what turns schemes into special.

 

The thing that is most overlooked in the frost/Kelly and leach offenses isn't the 1 on 1 scenarios that it creates for the receivers and backs, it's doing the same thing for the linemen.  It'll probably be our saving grace for the next 2 years as our linemen have a lot of work to do in both technique and in strength.   Once we have more developed and experienced linemen it won't be quite as necessary to create those matchups and I could definitely see a more osborne-esque blocking scheme up front later on, as it helps to wear the defensive line down over the course if the game much more.  

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ColoradoHusk    4,260

If you guys are on Twitter and want to see how modern, spread offenses work, I recommend following SpreadOffense.com@SpreadOffense on Twitter.  They show a lot of film from spread offenses at all levels, and show why they work.  Here are a couple Tweets that they had this morning, commenting on our very own Scott Frost.

 

 

Edited by ColoradoHusk

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Enhance    3,497

I'm confident Frost's offense will work in the B1G if they greatly improve the offensive line play and if he can get the right players into the university.

 

I think we do have to be cognizant of the more traditional power run teams in the B1G (like Wisconsin and Iowa) because their forte will be shortening the length of the game and playing physically. We'll need to have a response for that physicality. The good news is we saw this kind of culture mash in the Pac 12 with Oregon vs. Stanford, and Oregon came away winning a lot of those games. The ones they lost were the ones where they struggled to get the offense going.

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I am I    430

Nice opinions and chat. I’ve began to believe the pro style, shifting sets, big arm QB style offense was looking very out moded by the time Callahan left. 

 

Not that it didn’t generate yds and points at times, but he and Riley’s offenses just looked out dated and boring. 

 

Give me either what Frost is bringing or what Wisconsin/Stanford/Ala do when they have the olines. Love that smash mouth. 

 

Excited to move into the modern era of offenses!! 

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swmohusker    713

Offense is predicated on stretching the defense horizontally with RPO IZ with Key screens on the outside, OZ with the back and WR, and QB run game off of your IZ and OZ series.  Count the box and pick your poison.  Once defense overcommits to the perimeter screen game you gash them with the key and go.  

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brophog    846
7 hours ago, Crazyhole said:

The thing that is most overlooked in the frost/Kelly and leach offenses isn't the 1 on 1 scenarios that it creates for the receivers and backs, it's doing the same thing for the linemen.  

 

Very true. I have commented on this before. It's a big reason these type of offenses spread so fast.

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Red_Payne    75
12 hours ago, MichiganDad3 said:

I completely agree, and that is why I am amazed when our DCs want our DL to control gaps and not to penetrate.

EXACTLY!!!  i've been complaining about this since we moved into B1G!!!

 

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Landlord    7,848
14 hours ago, I am I said:

I’ve began to believe the pro style, shifting sets, big arm QB style offense was looking very out moded by the time Callahan left. 

 

It's certainly not the most exciting or sexy thing to watch, but Bama and Florida State have both won national championships with old school pro style offenses within the last few years. Michigan State has done a great job with it as well, and obviously so has Wisconsin. 

 

 

It's pretty crazy how many different offenses, drastically different, we've seen in the last 15-20 years. We went from power I rushing/triple option offense to a little bit more of a spread option offense to a terrible west coast offense to a good west coast offense to an intentionally shut down/ball control wco/pro style offense to a zone read run heavy with wco passing schemes offense to a very 'multiple' run-heavy zone read spread to a west coast again.

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Mr.Rodgers    12
5 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

It's pretty crazy how many different offenses, drastically different, we've seen in the last 15-20 years. We went from power I rushing/triple option offense to a little bit more of a spread option offense to a terrible west coast offense to a good west coast offense to an intentionally shut down/ball control wco/pro style offense to a zone read run heavy with wco passing schemes offense to a very 'multiple' run-heavy zone read spread to a west coast again.

None of those sound like they have an identity. Frost’s offense has a few base plays that’ll be mastered then plays that work off of those = identity =FINALLY!!

Edited by Mr.Rodgers

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Enhance    3,497

Any offense can work with the right coaches and the right players. Alabama could probably run any kind of offense they want (for the most part) because they have the best players in the country.

 

Whether it's a good or bad thing, I believe the 'pro-style' will be forever unclean at Nebraska. It was already tainted following Callahan and now the fan base has seen two examples of it failing in Lincoln. I would chalk it up as being more of an issue of the coaches and culture, but, it's going to be hard to ever convince folks it will work here.

 

I'm excited for Frost's offense simply because I believe it's well suited to the program. It's flexible. You can make the scheme more run-oriented if you have a better running QB, or you can go for more passing if you have a QB who can make the throws and if you have speed on the perimeter. I was never convinced Riley's offense could run the ball consistently like he claimed it could.

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BigRedBuster    8,064
19 minutes ago, Enhance said:

Whether it's a good or bad thing, I believe the 'pro-style' will be forever unclean at Nebraska. It was already tainted following Callahan and now the fan base has seen two examples of it failing in Lincoln. I would chalk it up as being more of an issue of the coaches and culture, but, it's going to be hard to ever convince folks it will work here.

 

 

Agree!!!

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Kiyoat Husker    1,508
13 hours ago, Landlord said:

 We went from power I rushing/triple option offense to a little bit more of a spread option offense to a terrible west coast offense to a good west coast offense to an intentionally shut down/ball control wco/pro style offense to a zone read run heavy with wco passing schemes offense to a very 'multiple' run-heavy zone read spread to a west coast again.

 

Drink.

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Nebfanatic    1,077
On 12/7/2017 at 11:06 AM, I am I said:

Nice opinions and chat. I’ve began to believe the pro style, shifting sets, big arm QB style offense was looking very out moded by the time Callahan left. 

 

Not that it didn’t generate yds and points at times, but he and Riley’s offenses just looked out dated and boring. 

 

Give me either what Frost is bringing or what Wisconsin/Stanford/Ala do when they have the olines. Love that smash mouth. 

 

Excited to move into the modern era of offenses!! 

You realize Wisconsin, Stanford and Bama run pro style offenses. Hell, Chysts playbook probably looks tge exact same as Rileys. I'm glad we are going in anotger direction but this narrative is so dumb especially when you say things like "i dont like pro style offense, lets do what wisconsin does!" Because Wisconsin literally runs a pro style big set lots of shifting big arm QB offense.  

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10 hours ago, Enhance said:

It was already tainted following Callahan and now the fan base has seen two examples of it failing in Lincoln. I would chalk it up as being more of an issue of the coaches and culture

 

I would as well. It's not the offense that is bad, it was how the coaches called plays and ran practices. Well, with Riley it was how he ran practice and Callahan lost his team. Neither staff called plays in a manner conducive to winning a game. You can't run the exact same play with the exact same personnel packages and you have to have a run game.

Edited by Husker_Bohunk
Wrong name.

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I am I    430
2 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

You realize Wisconsin, Stanford and Bama run pro style offenses. Hell, Chysts playbook probably looks tge exact same as Rileys. I'm glad we are going in anotger direction but this narrative is so dumb especially when you say things like "i dont like pro style offense, lets do what wisconsin does!" Because Wisconsin literally runs a pro style big set lots of shifting big arm QB offense.  

Uhhhh, no. I meant the smash mouth offenses. Predominantly run, down hill style with gigantic lineman of Ala, Wisc, and Stanford. Ahman Green and Frost style. 

 

OR the new stuff Frost is bringing in. Either of those. 

 

NOT the big arm, 50/50 pass/run, status boring ass offenses. 

 

damn. 

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53 minutes ago, I am I said:

Uhhhh, no. I meant the smash mouth offenses. Predominantly run, down hill style with gigantic lineman of Ala, Wisc, and Stanford. Ahman Green and Frost style. 

 

OR the new stuff Frost is bringing in. Either of those. 

 

NOT the big arm, 50/50 pass/run, status boring ass offenses. 

 

damn. 

 

There have been some pretty spectacular plays over the years both running and passing. It's not a bad thing to appreciate both.

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Nebfanatic    1,077
3 hours ago, I am I said:

Uhhhh, no. I meant the smash mouth offenses. Predominantly run, down hill style with gigantic lineman of Ala, Wisc, and Stanford. Ahman Green and Frost style. 

 

OR the new stuff Frost is bringing in. Either of those. 

 

NOT the big arm, 50/50 pass/run, status boring ass offenses. 

 

damn. 

I know what you are saying but the fact of the matter is those teams run the offense you are describing as pro style. That is their schemes and the concepts they use. They may be run heavier but its a pro style offense.  Do you watch these teams? Because they line up and run alot of the same stuff we did this year. They are just much more effective at running the ball.

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brophog    846

 

League wide, NFL teams lined up in 11 personnel over 60% of the time last year, and were in the shotgun roughly the same amount. Almost 80 percent of all pass plays in the NFL last year were from the shotgun. San Francisco was in the pistol or shotgun 90% of the time. Atlanta was only in shotgun 37%.

 

 

 

 

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