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Huskers93-97

Tangent Thread - Ohio State Recruiting Edition

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20 minutes ago, Warrior10 said:

Shhh, stars don't matter. 

All those top recruiting classes and they have only won 2 big ten titles in the 6 years meyer has been there. Michigan state has 2 titles in the same span. For the money he makes and the talent ohio state has thats pretty underwhelming. 

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21 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

All those top recruiting classes and they have only won 2 big ten titles in the 6 years meyer has been there. Michigan state has 2 titles in the same span. For the money he makes and the talent ohio state has thats pretty underwhelming. 

That's cherry picking some stats.  Ohio St has gone 73-8 vs MSU's 56-23.  Ohio St. was ineligible for post season in 2012 when they went undefeated and probably would have won at least a conference championship.  We lost in the CCG to Wisconsin who finished 3rd in their division that year.  Not to mention Ohio St. has won a national championship in that time frame.

Edited by STL Husker

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3 minutes ago, STL Husker said:

That's cherry picking some stats.  Ohio St has gone 73-8 vs MSU's 56-23.  Ohio St. was ineligible for post season in 2012 when they went undefeated and probably would have won at least a conference championship.  We lost in the CCG to Wisconsin who finished 3rd in their division that year.  Not to mention Ohio St. has won a national championship in that time frame.

I get what your saying- but its not cherry picking. The facts are the facts. Comparing recruiting rankings and how they translate to conference championships in the big ten. My only point being with as great as their head coach is and the recruiting classes they pull down and the fact the big ten has been down except for this year and last year. Maybe its more of an indictment on Meyer than it is recruiting. But its all excuses- 30 years from now all history will remember is the results. Either you won or you didnt. Michigan states record is not as good in that span but they still have the same amount of trophies in the case. Note Michigan states titles were not in the year ohio state was suspended. What i choose ohio state overall package success over michigan state. Of course- but we play for titles not regular season success.

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14 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

I get what your saying- but its not cherry picking. The facts are the facts. Comparing recruiting rankings and how they translate to conference championships in the big ten. My only point being with as great as their head coach is and the recruiting classes they pull down and the fact the big ten has been down except for this year and last year. Maybe its more of an indictment on Meyer than it is recruiting. But its all excuses- 30 years from now all history will remember is the results. Either you won or you didnt. Michigan states record is not as good in that span but they still have the same amount of trophies in the case. Note Michigan states titles were not in the year ohio state was suspended. What i choose ohio state overall package success over michigan state. Of course- but we play for titles not regular season success.

Ohio St has a national championship.  That's 3 championship trophies in 5 years.  In the years they haven't won the division, they had the same record as the division winner but lost the tiebreaker.  I don't know what your expectations are, but that's pretty damn impressive regardless of where you finish in the recruiting rankings. We need to win guys like these to get the level we want.  The playoff teams are rarely the teams who aren't high in the recruiting rankings.

Edited by STL Husker

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2 hours ago, Huskers93-97 said:

All those top recruiting classes and they have only won 2 big ten titles in the 6 years meyer has been there. Michigan state has 2 titles in the same span. For the money he makes and the talent ohio state has thats pretty underwhelming. 

73-8 with 1 national championship and 2 conference titles is underwhelming, I've heard it all. 

Edited by Warrior10

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Just now, Warrior10 said:

73-8 with 1 national championship and 2 conference titles is underwelcoming, I've heard it all. 

 

#FireUrb

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13 minutes ago, Warrior10 said:

73-8 with 1 national championship and 2 conference titles is underwelcoming, I've heard it all. 

TBH, hadn't heard underwelcoming before. 

 

I like it. 

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3 minutes ago, Atbone95 said:

TBH, hadn't heard underwelcoming before. 

 

I like it. 

Haha. Auto correct is my story, and I'm sticking to it. +1

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26 minutes ago, Warrior10 said:

73-8 with 1 national championship and 2 conference titles is underwhelming, I've heard it all. 

Not sure why you cant stick to the parameters of the conversation. The discussion is about conference titles. Not about regular season wins or a national championship. It is about Ohio State winning conference titles. Given they BLOW AWAY the big ten competition in recruiting paired with the best coach in the big ten but only have 2 titles in 6 years is underwhelming. 

 

For comparison. Alabama- best recruiting team in the conference. Best coach in the conference. 4 SEC titles in the last 6 years. I would say the cummulative 6 years SEC is better than Big Ten. 

Edited by Huskers93-97

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2 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

Not sure why you cant stick to the parameters of the conversation. The discussion is about conference titles. Not about regular season wins or a national championship. It is about Ohio State winning conference titles. Given they BLOW AWAY the big ten competition in recruiting paired with the best coach in the big ten but only have 2 titles in 6 years is underwhelming. 

Ohio St arguably has the highest rate of turnover of players year after year.  Yet they are usually within a game of getting to the CCG.  Once in a while they get beat for a tie breaker to go.  That doesn't mean recruiting 4 star talent is overrated because MSU or PSU catches them in their "down" year.

 

 

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1 minute ago, StPaulHusker said:

Ohio St arguably has the highest rate of turnover of players year after year.  Yet they are usually within a game of getting to the CCG.  Once in a while they get beat for a tie breaker to go.  That doesn't mean recruiting 4 star talent is overrated because MSU or PSU catches them in their "down" year.

 

 

For comparison. Alabama- best recruiting team in the conference. Best coach in the conference. 4 SEC titles in the last 6 years. I would say the cummulative 6 years SEC is better than Big Ten

 

I would venture to say alabama has as much turnover as ohio state. Plus SEC competition has been better over those 6 years. 

 

I never said the blame went on 4 stars- I said combination of their recruiting and having the premier league coach seems underwhelming to me.

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Just now, Huskers93-97 said:

For comparison. Alabama- best recruiting team in the conference. Best coach in the conference. 4 SEC titles in the last 6 years. I would say the cummulative 6 years SEC is better than Big Ten

 

I would venture to say alabama has as much turnover as ohio state. Plus SEC competition has been better over those 6 years. 

 

I never said the blame went on 4 stars- I said combination of their recruiting and having the premier league coach seems underwhelming to me.

Ok you are right.  Ohio St. is underwhelming when comparing them to probably the most dominant dynasty of all time.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

Not sure why you cant stick to the parameters of the conversation. The discussion is about conference titles. Not about regular season wins or a national championship. It is about Ohio State winning conference titles. Given they BLOW AWAY the big ten competition in recruiting paired with the best coach in the big ten but only have 2 titles in 6 years is underwhelming. 

 

For comparison. Alabama- best recruiting team in the conference. Best coach in the conference. 4 SEC titles in the last 6 years. I would say the cummulative 6 years SEC is better than Big Ten. 

If you're just not going to count real results, 73-8 record and 1 national championship, because it doesn't fit your "parameters"; there is no discussion to have. At least not one I'm interested in partaking in. 

Edited by Warrior10

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3 minutes ago, STL Husker said:

Ok you are right.  Ohio St. is underwhelming when comparing them to probably the most dominant dynasty of all time.

 

 

If you have FAR and AWAY superior talent than your competition and your coach is better than everyone else in the league. Do you not think 33% conference title win rate is kind of a let down. I do. 

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5 minutes ago, Warrior10 said:

If you're just not going to count real results, 73-8 record and 1 national championship, because it doesn't fit your "parameters"; there is no discussion to have. At least not one I'm interested in partaking in. 

Because you are one of the guys who have a hard on for recruiting star rankings and you cant argue with the lack of results when it relates to conference titles. The problem is your looking at this like I am saying ohio state is no good. I am saying they have under performed with their coaching advantages and personnel advantages in comparison to their conference competition. Its about the game that matters right? When other conference teams have put together a good year they have beaten them head to head right?

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Just now, Huskers93-97 said:

If you have FAR and AWAY superior talent than your competition and your coach is better than everyone else in the league. Do you not think 33% conference title win rate is kind of a let down. I do. 

Well again, they weren't eligible in 2012 when they probably would have won it .  They have won 40% when they are eligible.  Considering UM and PSU also finish in the top 10 of most recruiting rankings, I wouldn't consider that much of a let down.  I also don't know why you insist on keeping this focused on conference championships either.  They have finished in the top 10 every year under Urban and top six in 5 out of 6 seasons with a national championship.  I'm beginning to understand why people say there are unrealistic expectations at Nebraska.

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4 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

Because you are one of the guys who have a hard on for recruiting star rankings and you cant argue with the lack of results when it relates to conference titles. The problem is your looking at this like I am saying ohio state is no good. I am saying they have under performed with their coaching advantages and personnel advantages in comparison to their conference competition. Its about the game that matters right? When other conference teams have put together a good year they have beaten them head to head right?

 

Saban has only won the SEC in 5 out of 11 years at Alabama.  Only wins it 45% of the time, what a disappointment he has been!  ...am I doing this right?

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I'd take Alabama or Ohio State's record and championships (nattys or conference) any day ending in y.

Edited by HuskerNBigD

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10 minutes ago, FrankWheeler said:

 

Saban has only won the SEC in 5 out of 11 years at Alabama.  Only wins it 45% of the time, what a disappointment he has been!  ...am I doing this right?

I was trying to stick to the same parameters for alabama as what the sample size of ohio state would be IE 6 years. But if you want to twist this to 11 years of sample size thats a different story. That aside big difference between 45%(66% is same 6 year span) and 33%. But who is counting thats just a silly thing called math. Not to mention that 45%(66%) is against far superior competition. Little bit more impressive. How many national title contender competition was bama playing vs meyer? 

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38 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Ohio St arguably has the highest rate of turnover of players year after year.  Yet they are usually within a game of getting to the CCG.  Once in a while they get beat for a tie breaker to go.  That doesn't mean recruiting 4 star talent is overrated because MSU or PSU catches them in their "down" year.

 

 

OSU is the Kentucky Basketball of college football.

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39 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

Not sure why you cant stick to the parameters of the conversation.

 

I know, right? I mean this is a recruiting thread about Jean-Baptiste. Lol. Plus your measurements of success needs to be reexamined. I mean there are about two or three schools in all divisions in college football that might meet your requirements. 

 

What is happening in this thread?

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I think some of you guys need to take a deep breath, put aside your love for ohio state, urban meyer or star rankings and take an objective look at a lack of conference titles given the facts. Top coach in conference and top recruiting classes in conference. Especially since half of that 6 year period the conference really was not even good.

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1 minute ago, jaws said:

 

I know, right? I mean this is a recruiting thread about Jean-Baptiste. Lol. Plus your measurements of success needs to be reexamined. I mean there are about two or three schools in all divisions in college football that might meet your requirements. 

 

What is happening in this thread?

I get your point about two or three other schools. But there is only 2 schools that have the top 2 coaches in football. Alabama and Ohio State. Widely regarded as 1A and 1B. So thats who you would be compared against.

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45 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

Not sure why you cant stick to the parameters of the conversation.

 

Because your "parameters" exclude significant information about the success they've had.

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1 minute ago, Mavric said:

 

Because your "parameters" exclude significant information about the success they've had.

I just used conference championships as the measuring stick for this discussion. Because if you win your conference the general idea is you are the best in your conference. I would think if you have the best coach and the best players you should be winning your conference.

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Just now, Huskers93-97 said:

I just used conference championships as the measuring stick for this discussion. Because if you win your conference the general idea is you are the best in your conference. I would think if you have the best coach and the best players you should be winning your conference. it fit my agenda

 

FIFY

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1 minute ago, Mavric said:

 

FIFY

So you really dont see a correlation between having the best coach and the best players to winning the conference championship? I am by no means saying ohio state has not had good success. They have won alot of games, a national championship and 2 conference titles. I think that point has gotten lost. 

 

I am saying I am surprised they have not won more conference titles. Especially since half of his coaching tenure the big ten was not very good.

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5 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Because your "parameters" exclude significant information about the success they've had.

Yup. Since Urb joined the conference:

 

Winning %:

1st - OhioSt 90.12%

2nd - Wisconsin 75.60%

3rd - MichSt 70.88%

4th- PennSt 66.23%

5th - Mich 62.33%

6th - NW 61.84%

T7th - Neb/Iowa 60.25%

 

Conference Championships: 

T1st - OhioSt, MichSt 2 each

T3rd - PennSt, Wisc 1 each

 

National Championships (you know the ultimate goal):

1st - OhioSt

 

So they are 1st in winning percentage (by a lot), tied for 1st in conference championships (even though they were ineligible the first year, when they beat every big 10 team on their schedule.), and 1st in national championships.

 

The big 10 runs through Columbus. I don't like it, but that's how it is and how it's been for the last 6 years. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

So you really dont see a correlation between having the best coach and the best players to winning the conference championship? I am by no means saying ohio state has not had good success. They have won alot of games, a national championship and 2 conference titles. I think that point has gotten lost. 

 

I am saying I am surprised they have not won more conference titles. Especially since half of his coaching tenure the big ten was not very good.

 Which part of his coaching tenure in the big ten has been "not very good"?

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Just now, Warrior10 said:

 Which part of his coaching tenure in the big ten has been "not very good"?

The big ten was not very good his first 3 years. The last 3 years the conference as a whole has been much more competitive.

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21 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

I think some of you guys need to take a deep breath, put aside your love for ohio state, urban meyer or star rankings and take an objective look at a lack of conference titles given the facts. Top coach in conference and top recruiting classes in conference. Especially since half of that 6 year period the conference really was not even good.

Husker fans being directed to put aside their love for OhioSt and Urban? Ok, now I've heard it all. 

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2 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

The big ten was not very good his first 3 years. The last 3 years the conference as a whole has been much more competitive.

And they did exactly what a dominant team should during those 3 years, going 38-3. 

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Just now, Huskers93-97 said:

So you really dont see a correlation between having the best coach and the best players to winning the conference championship? I am by no means saying ohio state has not had good success. They have won alot of games, a national championship and 2 conference titles. I think that point has gotten lost. 

 

I am saying I am surprised they have not won more conference titles. Especially since half of his coaching tenure the big ten was not very good.

 

Urban made mistakes. 2012: Undefeated - Would played ND for a NC but instead Saban got the NC that year. That wasn't on him. 2013: He should have ran Hyde and not tried to run Miller for the first down in the B1G title game. 2014: B1G Champ/NC - Good enough. 2015: Lost on a last second FG in the rain to Mich St and should have ran Zeke more. This team is comparable to the Alabama team this year. 2016: Loss to Penn State when he should have called a TO before the FG when the clock was running down. CFB playoff Loss. 2017: Loss to OK and a bad loss to Iowa but still wins the B1G championship. Crap happens but he keeps on beating Michigan. 

 

That is from memory. Lots of close games and HC calls that maybe should have been different. Some of you guys are more critical than Buckeye fans which is hard to believe. I tend to sit back and enjoy the ride. 

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I wasn't aware my Ohio St comment would make its own thread lol. I will say that Harbaugh is the Pelini of Michigan.... 

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1 minute ago, BIG ERN said:

I wasn't aware my Ohio St comment would make its own thread lol. I will say that Harbaugh is the Pelini of Michigan.... 

You're kind of a big deal. 

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46 minutes ago, Huskers93-97 said:

So you really dont see a correlation between having the best coach and the best players to winning the conference championship? I am by no means saying ohio state has not had good success. They have won alot of games, a national championship and 2 conference titles. I think that point has gotten lost. 

 

I am saying I am surprised they have not won more conference titles. Especially since half of his coaching tenure the big ten was not very good.

 

There is a correlation.  But winning conference championships is far from the only measure of success.

 

There is a lot of real estate between "not won more conference championships" and "underwhelming" (or underwelcoming, if you prefer).

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25 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

There is a correlation.  But winning conference championships is far from the only measure of success.

 

There is a lot of real estate between "not won more conference championships" and "underwhelming" (or underwelcoming, if you prefer).

I know its not the only measure of success. Thats why I said I dont disagree how successful they have been as a program. I just said the conference titles in my opinion dont line up with the overall coaching, recruiting and overall wins. If I told you a team won 73 games in 6 years and asked you to predict how many conference titles they had in those 6 years. I dont think you could honestly say you would guess 2. I know I would guess 4. Just from a numbers stand point that is averaging 12 wins a year- so if your only losing 1-2 games a year- whats the chance your not winning conference titles left and right. Or what if I told you a team won 12 games every year for 6 straight years- how many conference titles do you think they won? 

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