Carriker Chronicles - Osborne vs. Saban - Who's the Best?

[The Maudfather]

The answer is Saban. 

[jaws]

Unfortunately for me the answer is Saban.

 

It is amazing how well Saban has been able to sustain his success with losing so many of this assistant coaches over the years. It would be interesting to see how TO would handle today's environment and recruiting. He wouldn't be able to do it all like the OP said in today's game. 

[InOmaha]

Saban has a better run going, but he just seems so blah.  Alabama is like a brute force team deep enough to plow through a 4 team playoff if he can politic their way in on the years they don't win the head to head.  He's not really an innovative coach.  The best strategic coaching I've seen out of him to date is pulling Jalen Hurts for the second half of the last game.  Nobody really talks about Alabama's innovation on either side of the ball; just how good of players they have.  They expect to win then line up and beat you down until they win.  Unless they don't.

 

Osborne won with a brute force wear the other guy down plan too.  It would have been interesting if he could have gotten into a playoff system with more of his 1 loss teams.   I think more games and a playoff system would have greatly benefited the physical Nebraska teams chances of finishing on top.  As mentioned, at least Osborne called his own games and on top of it he had to finish undefeated to have any chance of winning a championship.  Given that simple criteria, Saban would have 1 championship at Alabama.

 

I think there are better football minds out there then Saban.  He's smart enough to hire them.   

[irafreak]

How many NT did Osborne get with losses on the resume? This can't be ignored. Back then, a single loss was the end of the line for that season. Place asterisks beside many Saban titles. Yet the only one you could argue of Osborne's was the split with michigan but they were still undefeated. 

 

My issue with Saban is that his teams have been given preferential treatment. It's not as though the debate has been "should Saban's team be awarded the championship," it was "should his team even be competing for it?"

[Landlord]

9 minutes ago, irafreak said:

How many NT did Osborne get with losses on the resume? This can't be ignored. Back then, a single loss was the end of the line for that season.

 

 

Conversely, that's because they weren't usually playing a large handful of huge stakes games against top ranked opponents every year.

 

Look at 2009 Alabama for example. They beat #10 Virginia Tech, #20 Ole Miss, #17 LSU, #3 Florida, and #1 Texas. They also played 5 more teams with at least 7 wins. That's a gauntlet.

 

Look at 1982 Nebraska for comparison. They played #1 Penn State, #14 Auburn, #16 Oklahoma, and #11 LSU. The only other team they played with a winning record was Iowa, everyone else had 2/3/4/5 wins.

[junior4949]

19 hours ago, suh_fan93 said:

 

I guess the same guy that brought those amazing recruiting classes to Michigan State and LSU?  He had no where near the recruiting classes he did at those two schools as he did at Alabama and well it showed.

 

 

 

He still won a NC at the bolded.  Who do you suppose recruited the upperclassmen on the 2007 LSU NC team?

[suh_fan93]

31 minutes ago, junior4949 said:

 

He still won a NC at the bolded.  Who do you suppose recruited the upperclassmen on the 2007 LSU NC team?

 

 

Probably the same guy who's team lost to an unranked team the year they split with USC? Hmm....

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2018 by suh_fan93

[Landlord]

7 minutes ago, suh_fan93 said:

 

 

Probably the same guy who's team lost to an unranked team the year they split with USC? Hmm....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we're dismissing shared titles, then it's Saban with 5, and Osborne with 2.

[PasstheDamnBallGuy]

Give TO 4 number 1 recruiting classes in a row and see how dominant his team would be.  Saban has had more success for sure but he also has access to just an insane amount of talent. 

[irafreak]

2 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Conversely, that's because they weren't usually playing a large handful of huge stakes games against top ranked opponents every year.

 

Look at 2009 Alabama for example. They beat #10 Virginia Tech, #20 Ole Miss, #17 LSU, #3 Florida, and #1 Texas. They also played 5 more teams with at least 7 wins. That's a gauntlet.

 

Look at 1982 Nebraska for comparison. They played #1 Penn State, #14 Auburn, #16 Oklahoma, and #11 LSU. The only other team they played with a winning record was Iowa, everyone else had 2/3/4/5 wins.

So you chose the most impressive season of Saban's to compare with an average season of Osborne's.

[ajt1970]

 

I hear the points everyone is making.  However,  I was more pointing out the fact that Osborne did it all....what I would call a Supercoach.  He was not just a figurehead or a non-active participant in games like a lot of the old coaches from back in the day who didnt even wear a headset and stay connected to what was actually going on during the game...x's and o's-wise.  Think of Bear Bryant, Paterno, Bowden, Switzer, Woody Hayes, etc.  Especially Bear Bryant who always gets the accolades of being some great supercoach of all time.  My opinion, if you dont have a headset on, you shouldnt even be considered to be the best of all time. You're just not dialed in enough to now what is happening on each and every play.  Sure, If the decision needs to be made to go for it on fourth down, ask Bear.  Other than that, he's not actively involved.

 

Which brings me to Osborne and Saban.  Yes, they both have headsets on, but Osborne was his own OC and playcaller.  Saban is not.  Saban delegates that responsibility to other coaches.  Doesnt mean Saban is not offering input into what plays should be called (he does have a headset on and uses it...unlike Mike Riley who never seemed to say anything in his headset to his assistant coaches)......I'm sure he is....but Saban is not the one sticking his neck out and making all the playcall decisions.  Osborne was.  He was dialed in.  This is the point I was making as far as comparing coaches.  Track record speaks loudly, of course, but HOW they did it speaks just as loud, in my opinion.  And nobody did it like Osborne did it. 

 

Seriously, just think about it......what head coach EVER ...besides Osborne...was his own OC (or defensive coordinator for that matter) over the ENTIRE time of his head coaching years?..... AND add on top of that how successful Osborne was in doing so (over a lng period of time, and very successfully)......it is just simply way beyond amazing...and no other coach can compare. 

 

Ask the question ....who was their own OC or DC for their ENTIRE head coaching career over a long period of time?  I am genuinely interested if anyone can think of somebody who was anywhere near as successful over a long period of time while doing both roles as head coach and OC/DC.

[Landlord]

Doing more things than another coach doesn't make you a better coach. Achieving greater results is what makes you a better coach. 

 

 

If Saban had 10 national championships, and Osborne had 1, I don't care if Osborne was the waterboy, tutor, strength coach, nutritionist, offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, recruiting coordinator, and even played quarterback. Saban would be better.

[Landlord]

30 minutes ago, irafreak said:

So you chose the most impressive season of Saban's to compare with an average season of Osborne's.

 

I honestly just picked one at random. Let's compare different years

 

 

2015 Bama - played #21 Wisconsin, #9 Ole Miss, #24 Georgia, #23 Tennessee, #17 LSU, #25 Florida, #6 Michigan State, #2 Clemson. Three of those were postseason games, and played an additional 5 teams with 7 or more wins.

 

1995 Nebraska - played #6 Kansas State, #4 Colorado, #10 Kansas, #3 Florida. One postseason game. Nobody else they played had a winning record.

 

 

 

I'm sure there are years Osborne had that were harder, but reality is that a 'normal' cfb schedule in the 70's-90's included at most 3-4 ranked teams and one postseason game. A 'normal' cfb schedule these days includes 4-5 ranked teams, no chance at co-championships, and up to three postseason games. I'm not saying that makes Saban better, but the original argument was that Saban wasn't as good because his teams don't go undefeated, and there's a realistic reason why. 

 

Edited January 13, 2018 by Landlord

[Stumpy1]

I would dismiss any ranked SEC team that Alabama has played.  They have teams that are 8-5 and still ranked in the top 25.  To me, this is a joke. 

[Red_Payne]

My take...

Saban has created a more dominant dynasty than Osborne. Depending on how long he continues @ 'Bama, he will likely create a longer lasting dynasty as the top dog in CFB (if he hasn't already).

 

However, What Osborne did is more impressive than what Saban has done. Putting together top recruiting classes at Neb. is exponentially harder than putting together a top class at Alabama. Developing the talent that Osborne received out of high school and putting together championship contenders was probably a more difficult job that turning Saban's recruiting classes into championship contenders.

An argument for Saban, though; he put together a 26-game win streak; which (most likely) was a tougher 26-game stretch than Osborne's 26-game stretch unbeaten. (This is a difficult argument to make, though).