Democrats.. liars or did they see something else?

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, Kiyoat Husker said:

So, I think this thread has gone a little in the weeds.  Bornhusker actually started it with some valid criticism of the change in stance that many prominent Democrats have had on illegal immigration, and immigration in general.  For politicians to shift their stance over time is not that surprising, as Moraine mentioned.  The thing I am interested in is why.

 

Here is an article I found that bemoans the Democratic party's change in immigration message.  It is an op-ed from an Editor of The Atlantic.  He openly calls himself a liberal, but agrees more with the previous anti-immigration tendencies of the Democrats in the past.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-democrats-immigration-mistake/528678/

 

And just a piece of advice, Bornhusker:  If you want to engage in civil debate or discourse, I would recommend NOT titling your thread "Democrats...liars, or did they see something else?"  You have a valid point, but it gets lost in the confrontational, sarcastic opening statement.  JMHO.  And don't respond with "but whatabout....." Just because it was done in the past doesn't mean you have to reciprocate.

 

 

Every post he's made here has been confrontational. 

[QMany]

36 minutes ago, Bornhusker said:

 

I have zero problem with your thread title, but according to others it doesn't promote civil discussion.. .

 

Do you disagree that “Trump is Racist?” Should a racist be in charge of immigration policy?

[Bornhusker]

13 minutes ago, QMany said:

 

Do you disagree that “Trump is Racist?” Should a racist be in charge of immigration policy?

 

Obama was in charge and his administration fostered racial divide, not much of a difference, imo.

 

of course you disagree..

http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/13/how-obama-left-us-more-racially-divided-than-ever/

 

Quote

A small sampling of the ways he has done this are: accusing whites of “white privilege,” which means having an unfair advantage due to being white, an advantage built upon oppressing minorities; accusing the police and justice system at large of racism; blaming pay differences between men and women on discrimination; and casting Islamic radicalism as a legitimate response to discrimination (ostensibly by white Christians).

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Bornhusker

[QMany]

12 minutes ago, Bornhusker said:

 

Obama was in charge and his administration fostered racial divide, not much of a difference, imo.

 

of course you disagree..

http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/13/how-obama-left-us-more-racially-divided-than-ever/

 

 

That is not an answer to my questions. That is Whataboutism in the way of an opinion piece in The Federalist, which routinely gives a platform to controversial click-bait views thinly-veiled as conservative politics. 

[Danny Bateman]

I can't imagine what in the long & messy history of America led Obama to make those claims. Gee.

 

Also,  I was curious, so I clicked the last source in that Fedarlist piece about Islamic radicalism. No where in the linked Daily Wire piece does it assert Obama made that claim. Bad job sourcing, Federalist.

[Bornhusker]

2 minutes ago, QMany said:

That is not an answer to my questions. That is Whataboutism in the way of an opinion piece in The Federalist, which routinely gives a platform to controversial click-bait views thinly-veiled as conservative politics. 

 

lol, oh gotcha.. So that site doesn't work, though they did give evidence to back their claim. What site would you accept?

 

I do not think that Trumps thinks his race is superior to other races.

[Danny Bateman]

Born, let's return to your original point.

 

Moiraine made a coherent defense above that politicians positions CAN change over time, as society changes or if their constituents demand it. 

You can call them hypocrites for that if you like, but do you disagree?

Also, what are the negative effects you mentioned above of illegals actually living in the U.S.?

[Moiraine]

Obama's administration didn't foster racial divide.

 

Racist and subconsciously racist people who didn't like hearing the truth did that. They also didn't like having a Black president.

[Bornhusker]

3 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

Born, let's return to your original point.

 

Moiraine made a coherent defense above that politicians positions CAN change over time, as society changes or if their constituents demand it. 

You can call them hypocrites for that if you like, but do you disagree?

Also, what are the negative effects you mentioned above of illegals actually living in the U.S.?

 

yes, I disagree.. lets go back to what Diane said in my original post about the negative effects..

 

 

 

 

[Bornhusker]

3 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

Obama's administration didn't foster racial divide.

 

Racist and subconsciously racist people who didn't like hearing the truth did that. They also didn't like having a Black president.

 

Do you have inside information, did you work for Obama? just curious how you know this to be 100% factual?

 

Obama did in fact do some of the things mentioned in that link to the Federalist site.

[Bornhusker]

I have to get off.. I have been neglecting work today..

[Moiraine]

8 minutes ago, Bornhusker said:

 

Do you have inside information, did you work for Obama? just curious how you know this to be 100% factual?

 

Obama did in fact do some of the things mentioned in that link to the Federalist site.

 

 

None of those things divided the country. The article was full of people talking about their feelings. The links in your article didn't show it either.

 

White privilege does exist, and the justice system is systemically racist (another example of White privilege). Off the top of my head, Whites and Blacks use marijuana at the same rate but the arrest rate for Blacks is 3+ times greater. That's one little example. Stating the truth doesn't divide the country. Having racist and subconsciously racist and others who are easily offended and take the above statements personally does that. I'm White. I don't feel attacked in the least by those statements. Lots of White people get angry just at the phrase "White privilege," as if they're being personally attacked and blamed. Instead of wondering how to improve things.

 

Obama's presidency brought a lot of racists out into the open. Because he's Black.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Moiraine

[Nebfanatic]

22 minutes ago, Bornhusker said:

 

lol, oh gotcha.. So that site doesn't work, though they did give evidence to back their claim. What site would you accept?

 

I do not think that Trumps thinks his race is superior to other races.

If this is true Fred Trump is rolling over in his grave. Royalty doesn't associate with peasants!

[Danny Bateman]

In addition, that point about his fostering racial divide is very chicken-&-egg. Did racial divide become a problem because Obama accused the police system of racial discrimination, or did it come about because black people were tired of being gunned down or given disproportionate sentences for the same crimes white people get slaps on the wrist for?

If you DON'T think there's a lick of racial bias in the justice system, go watch the video of Daniel Shaver being gunned down in a hotel hallway by the police. I'm not embedding it due to it's graphic nature.

 

This young man was killed sobbing & terrified for his life while he crawled towards a police officer, all because, as far as I can tell, his pants were sagging & he unconsciously reached behind himself to hike them up. He was unarmed.

 

Is this proper police protocol? To be this big of an a-hole when dealing with someone who is completely terrified? 

If they do this to white man who was, by all accounts, trying desperately to follow every order given to him, imagine how terrified black people are when they deal with the police.

 

There's also the fact that they keep winding up dead when in police custody or while being apprehended for petty crimes, as well.

 

 

[Danny Bateman]

@Bornhusker btw I agree with DiFi, somewhat.

 

Let's send fewer people to prison anyway. Stop feeding the prison-industrial complex, PERIOD, with people & work to make them productive members of society. That includes undocumented immigrants. Let's help felons rehabilitate themselves & stop handing out huge sentences that clearly don't match petty crimes. 

 

I'd have to see updated numbers of California's Medicaid enrollment, but given that state of California is something like the world's 6th largest economy, I can't imagine they're hurting too badly by providing people with healthcare.