Bornhusker Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 I agree with a number of you.. I don't care if the pres is a democrat or a repub.. I want them to start working for US, not for their own benefit. i think that is one hiuge reason Trump is getting so much flack. Despite his faults, he is doing things outside of the establishment from both sides and they don't like it. We can argue the good and bad all day, but the fact of the matter is they don't like him there because he is threatening their established way. THAT is a good thing in my book! 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Bornhusker said: i think that is one hiuge reason Trump is getting so much flack. Despite his faults, he is doing things outside of the establishment from both sides and they don't like it. In large part for his own benefit. 3 Link to comment
ZRod Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Bornhusker said: I agree with a number of you.. I don't care if the pres is a democrat or a repub.. I want them to start working for US, not for their own benefit. i think that is one hiuge reason Trump is getting so much flack. Despite his faults, he is doing things outside of the establishment from both sides and they don't like it. We can argue the good and bad all day, but the fact of the matter is they don't like him there because he is threatening their established way. THAT is a good thing in my book! Sometimes things are established for a good reason. Like norms, ethics, decorum, you know things that make us better. 7 Link to comment
Kiyoat Husker Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Bornhusker said: [...] the fact of the matter is they don't like him there because he is threatening their established way. THAT is a good thing in my book! That was my hope when he was elected, and the one thing I consoled myself with. I thought, "maybe he will actually make good on his promise to break up the establishment, and the corruption in washington. The stranglehold that lobbyists for business interests have on American politics. The only thing he has done in that regard is to INCREASE the voice of big business and big industry special interests. He has also INCREASED and exacerbated the partisan divide through childish twitter bullying. The only politicians on the Right that he attacks are anyone who opposes him personally. There are plenty of corrupt politicians he is just fine with, as long as they play nice with him. Edited January 17, 2018 by Kiyoat Husker 6 Link to comment
Landlord Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 35 minutes ago, Bornhusker said: I agree with a number of you.. I don't care if the pres is a democrat or a repub.. I want them to start working for US, not for their own benefit. i think that is one hiuge reason Trump is getting so much flack. Despite his faults, he is doing things outside of the establishment from both sides and they don't like it. We can argue the good and bad all day, but the fact of the matter is they don't like him there because he is threatening their established way. THAT is a good thing in my book! Are you still talking about the press? They, as organizations, like Trump plenty. The headlines write themselves, and subscriptions and ratings are way way up with a Trump oval office, because the man is just inherently absurd. They, as people, sans Fox News/Breitbart/The Daily Caller/whoever, probably don't like him as individuals, because he is threatening their established way of 1) Freedom of the press, 2) Democracy, 3) Decency. 2 Link to comment
Bornhusker Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Landlord said: Are you still talking about the press? They, as organizations, like Trump plenty. The headlines write themselves, and subscriptions and ratings are way way up with a Trump oval office, because the man is just inherently absurd. They, as people, sans Fox News/Breitbart/The Daily Caller/whoever, probably don't like him as individuals, because he is threatening their established way of 1) Freedom of the press, 2) Democracy, 3) Decency. lol Link to comment
Fru Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 So it's a good thing to threaten the established way thru Twitter rants, attacking gold star widows, nominating devastatingly unqualified people for important posts and saying Nazi's are very fine people? 1 Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Don't forget corruption! Trump himself is corrupt. He keeps dollars flowing into Trump org coffers by golfing every weekend & charging Secret Service ridiculous rates for golf carts. He pushed strongly for a tax bill that saved himself tons of money while screwing us over. The government actively encourages foreign diplomats & officials to use Trump properties while here. His cabinet is just as corrupt. Scott Pruitt built himself a $25,000 soundproof booth in his office on our dime. Betsy Davos has a long history of pushing charter schools to personally benefit from her investments in them. Ryan ZInke likes using government-funded planes for private travel & of course who can forget the massive $300M sweetheart deal his neighbors got to screw up power recovery in Puerto Rico. Steve Mnuchin & his wife took a government plane to KY to watch the solar eclipse from the top of Fort Knox. Oh, and this: If you care about corruption, this administration has turned it up to 11 & broken the dial off. 7 Link to comment
mrandyk Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Bornhusker said: lol Aimed at the press at Fox News comment, or the insult to the 1st Amendment, Democracy, and Decency part? Because Trump has unquestionably taken a hammer to our free press, democracy, and decency. 2 Link to comment
Guy Chamberlin Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 On 1/17/2018 at 7:02 AM, knapplc said: Exactly, BRB. These people ostensibly work for us, so holding them accountable is perfectly fine. Of course, what I really want is Moderates in power, promulgating reasonable laws that benefit as many Americans as possible. Some Republicans fit that description, as do some Democrats. The Bernies and Pelosis of the political world are not compatible with that definition any more than the McConnells or Ryans. Whoever's in charge, it's our responsibility as Citizens to watch them, and to protest when they break troth with Americans. Problem is, the centerline for moderation has moved so far to the right in the last 20 years that we need responsible progressives to nudge it back where it belongs. Hilary Clinton was a habitual centrist and I think she actually suffered from it. The right likes to pillory Nancy Pelosi as a liberal, but she's takes money from the same lobbyists as the Republicans, and was willing to compromise along with the best of them back when this wasn't a binary system. Bernie Sanders is a different animal. He's portrayed as an extremist for advancing ideas like single payer healthcare and free college tuition, but Sanders and others are able to back up genuine policy initiatives with surprisingly plausible cost/benefit numbers. Back in 2009, when Americans were polled on potential healthcare systems, 60+ percent thought Single Payer was the way to go --- because it was clearly explained to them. When opponents screamed Socialized Medicine!, a reasonable law that would benefit as many Americans as possible was suddenly marginalized as extremist. If Democrats serve up a slate of moderates promoting their willingness to compromise, I think they'll lose the moment the midterms are providing. I think a big part of holding Democrats accountable is reminding them how uninspiring the party establishment has been. 2 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 50 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said: Problem is, the centerline for moderation has moved so far to the right in the last 20 years that we need responsible progressives to nudge it back where it belongs. Hilary Clinton was a habitual centrist and I think she actually suffered from it. The right likes to pillory Nancy Pelosi as a liberal, but she's takes money from the same lobbyists as the Republicans, and was willing to compromise along with the best of them back when this wasn't a binary system. Bernie Sanders is a different animal. He's portrayed as an extremist for advancing ideas like single payer healthcare and free college tuition, but Sanders and others are able to back up genuine policy initiatives with surprisingly plausible cost/benefit numbers. Back in 2009, when Americans were polled on potential healthcare systems, 60+ percent thought Single Payer was the way to go --- because it was clearly explained to them. When opponents screamed Socialized Medicine!, a reasonable law that would benefit as many Americans as possible was suddenly marginalized as extremist. If Democrats serve up a slate of moderates promoting their willingness to compromise, I think they'll lose the moment the midterms are providing. I think a big part of holding Democrats accountable is reminding them how uninspiring the party establishment has been. Guy, what names should the dems put forward in 2020 in your opinion. Who is progressive enough wtout being seen as a wild eye liberal that could move the ball more towards 'true moderate'? Link to comment
Guy Chamberlin Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I don't know. Bernie Sanders was an elderly card-carrying Socialist with little name recognition and no electoral base, and his appeal was surprisingly broad. Might well have beaten Trump in the general. I think the lesson wasn't so much about ideology and political wings, it was the appeal of candidates who rejected Business as Usual. In some ways, it's just about new faces, not people who've been paying their dues in the party machine and believe themselves entitled to the job. I think we'll see some smart, honest and inspiring newcomers on the local level in the midterms. Some might call them Progressives, but they'll just be reasonable folks with reasonable agendas. Hopefully some of them are Republicans. I don't see the DNC doing anything fresh or populist for 2020. I think the grassroots will surprise us with someone, and perhaps the DNC will get out of its own way. Guess I'm saying the best person for the job in 2020 is somebody we're not talking about yet. Link to comment
knapplc Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said: perhaps the DNC will get out of its own way. Honestly, if they hadn't forced Hillary on us like they did, we wouldn't be in this situation today. 2 Link to comment
ZRod Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 41 minutes ago, knapplc said: Honestly, if they hadn't forced Hillary on us like they did, we wouldn't be in this situation today. Too bad Uncle Joe wasn't up for it. That would have been a fun ride. Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said: Problem is, the centerline for moderation has moved so far to the right in the last 20 years that we need responsible progressives to nudge it back where it belongs. Hilary Clinton was a habitual centrist and I think she actually suffered from it. The right likes to pillory Nancy Pelosi as a liberal, but she's takes money from the same lobbyists as the Republicans, and was willing to compromise along with the best of them back when this wasn't a binary system. Bernie Sanders is a different animal. He's portrayed as an extremist for advancing ideas like single payer healthcare and free college tuition, but Sanders and others are able to back up genuine policy initiatives with surprisingly plausible cost/benefit numbers. Back in 2009, when Americans were polled on potential healthcare systems, 60+ percent thought Single Payer was the way to go --- because it was clearly explained to them. When opponents screamed Socialized Medicine!, a reasonable law that would benefit as many Americans as possible was suddenly marginalized as extremist. If Democrats serve up a slate of moderates promoting their willingness to compromise, I think they'll lose the moment the midterms are providing. I think a big part of holding Democrats accountable is reminding them how uninspiring the party establishment has been. Well said. I agree with all of this... with one caveat: It all applies to the who they nominate for president in 2020. I still feel like there are a lot of conservative House seats & senate openings where they'd be best served to nominate a moderate. I know Roy Moore created special circumstances in Alabama, but had Doug Jones been a progressive liberal instead of a pro-gun moderate, Moore probably still wins. Another example is Phil Bredesen, a pragmatic moderate & former governor of Tennessee, who is running for Bob Corker's vacated Senate seat. He is by far the best candidate the Dems could've possibly drawn in Tennessee for a Senate seat they otherwise wouldn't have a shot at. All things being equal, I'd prefer a progressive over a moderate. But I want them to win as many seats as they can to oust some of the crazy Republicans & be able to a actually accomplish things for whatever progressive they nominate in 2020. Link to comment
Recommended Posts