Jim/Pam vs Leslie/Ben

[zoogs]

https://www.themarysue.com/jim-halpert-vs-ben-wyatt/

 

I really enjoyed this breakdown of a specific, core aspect of two of my favorite shows. Parks and Rec is a derivative of the US version of The Office. I would argue that a lot of the differences come from P&R coming along later, and so it was written with a different sensibility. 

 

It's been a long time since I watched those early seasons of The Office. I was really wrapped up in Jim and Pam's love story. I wonder what I'd think of it now. It wouldn't be the only once-loved show to have been rendered difficult to watch.

 

Anyway, I'm a biiiiiig fan of the Leslie Knope character, her story, and the Leslie-Ben dynamic. In contrast, Jim's story (and it really is Jim's story...even at the end) is much more familiar, much more traditional, and you can pick through some of the elements of it as presented here for some of its flaws. Don't get me wrong, The Office was really funny and enjoyable for me through at least most of its run. Still, I think this is a worthy contrast to draw in the context of discussing how love is portrayed on television. 

[knapplc]

That's such a weird interpretation of Jim, and of the Jim/Pam relationship.  They were madly in love with each other, Jim was expressive but respectful of Pam and her choices, he didn't "run away," he gave her space to live the life she chose.  What was he supposed to do, stay there and be a constant reminder to the woman he loves of the bad choice she made?  In a modern interpretation of Jim, he'd be lambasted for that.  She chooses Roy, he respects that choice and moves on.  One gets the impression the author thinks Jim should have stayed?  How creepy would that be? 

 

But here's the kicker - Jim is not analogous to Ben.  Jim is analogous to Leslie.  Ben is Pam.  Amy Poehler reversed the gender roles because it's her show and she can do that.

 

And the really funny thing is, Poehler can get away with some really creepy stuff being a woman. Imagine if Ben commented on Leslie's breasts like Leslie ogles/talks about Ben's butt.  It's supposed to be charming, but if the roles were reversed, there would be articles expressing how creepy Ben was. 

 

I love both shows, probably P&R more than The Office now because P&R is more recent/modern, but both shows and both romances were great. 

[Pedro Guerrero]

I wish Jim would have ended up with Karen and Ben would have ended up with Ann.

 

I agree with Knapp, if Jim would have stayed after getting shunned by Pam that would have been creepy.  He was actually a man about it and moved on.

 

FWIW:  I love Parks and Rec but Leslie and Ben are my 5th and 6th favorite characters on the show.  Ron, Andy, April and Jerry are my top 4.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Pedro Guerrero

[knapplc]

Leslie and Ben aren't among my favorite characters, either.  Andy & April are a lot more interesting, as is Ron, and I liked Chris quite a bit.  I also really liked the campaign advisor lady, whose name escapes me. 

 

Jerry in the top four. That's interesting.  He's wallpaper to me.  Don't really like Donna that much, either.  

 

Funny thing is, I don't much care for Tom on P&R at all, probably mostly because of his incessant whining. Even his face annoys me. But I love Aziz Ansari on Master of None.  I hope he makes another season soon. That's a great show.

[Pedro Guerrero]

I guess my Jerry #4 was more based on every episode characters (or I just like his always being the butt of jokes).  I don't like Donna or Tom either.

 

Jean-Ralpho is the best and his sister is the worst.

 

I also like the campaign advisor (Jennifer Barkley) and Paul Rudd (Bobby Newport). 

 

Almost all the secondary characters of the show were all pretty good IMO. 

[Cdog923]

31 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Leslie and Ben aren't among my favorite characters, either.  Andy & April are a lot more interesting, as is Ron, and I liked Chris quite a bit.  I also really liked the campaign advisor lady, whose name escapes me. 

 

Jerry (1) in the top four. That's interesting.  He's wallpaper to me.  Don't really like Donna that much, either.  

 

Funny thing is, I don't much care for Tom on P&R at all, probably mostly because of his incessant whining. Even his face annoys me. But I love Aziz Ansari on Master of None.  I hope he makes another season soon. That's a great show. (2)

 

1. He meant Larry

2. Given recent news, that might not happen, ever. 

[Pedro Guerrero]

7 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

1. He meant Larry

 

I meant Terry

[Landlord]

What about Gary?

[JJ Husker]

Silly me, I liked the Office because it was entertaining and hilarious. I didn't realize I was supposed to be analyzing all the interpersonal relationships. I have just begun to watch P&R. I can sure sense the commonality to the Office but I haven't made it through the first season yet. Seems like evaluating these types of things might remove some of the joy of viewing, IDK. Maybe I'm just shallow.

[knapplc]

21 minutes ago, Comfortably Numb said:

I have just begun to watch P&R.

 

Jealous. I'd like to watch it all from scratch again.  If you're in season 1 and it feels a little slow, just wait. It's way better after that.

 

 

1 hour ago, Landlord said:

What about Gary?

 

Happy 8,000 Internet bonus points, man.

[Moiraine]

What I find interesting, and this is probably the case for most stories, is how unrequited love is really hard to look away from, and then once the characters get together the story kinda goes downhill. No expectation left. I love the later seasons, but only because I fell in love with all the characters in the really good seasons. On their own they're not great. The last season had some really good episodes but a lot of the James Spader and Kathy Bates episodes before thatwere pretty bad. They forgot what made the show good, which was showing funny people doing normal things.

 

Anyhow, I really like Parks & Rec but I haven't finished it yet.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Moiraine

[knapplc]

2 hours ago, knapplc said:

I love Aziz Ansari on Master of None.  I hope he makes another season soon. That's a great show.

 

1 hour ago, Cdog923 said:

 Given recent news, that might not happen, ever. 

 

Depends. If there are more accusations, I think Master of None is probably done.  If it's just this one thing, it's going to get chalked up to a date gone bad and people will move past it. 

[GSG]

38 minutes ago, Comfortably Numb said:

Silly me, I liked the Office because it was entertaining and hilarious. I didn't realize I was supposed to be analyzing all the interpersonal relationships. I have just begun to watch P&R. I can sure sense the commonality to the Office but I haven't made it through the first season yet. Seems like evaluating these types of things might remove some of the joy of viewing, IDK. Maybe I'm just shallow.

 

If you're not analyzing everything to death, then how do you know when you're supposed to be outraged?!

[JJ Husker]

40 minutes ago, GSG said:

 

If you're not analyzing everything to death, then how do you know when you're supposed to be outraged?!

 

Teach pm's me to let me know when 

[Cdog923]

Overall, I am a much, much bigger fan of Parks and Rec than The Office. The Office is far too cringy for my tastes, and if you really think about it, most of the characters on the show are horrible people. 

 

Plus, Ron Swanson is on one show, and not the other. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Cdog923