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Pedro G

Talent Vs. Developement

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Hey folks, what are your thoughts on this? Frost appears to be recruiting players from HS and JC who not only fit his system but who potentially could be really good players — of course some won’t pan out. Do you agree or disageee with me that the difference between the number one class and the 22nd is developement more than pure talent? Can you see where Georgia has recruited talent that is more developed than the Corn’s class? Could this be the big difference between a three star and a four and five? If Frost continues to recruit well and develops these players as he says, will the Corn in four years or so close the gap in talent to an OSU?

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3 hours ago, Pedro G said:

Hey folks, what are your thoughts on this? Frost appears to be recruiting players from HS and JC who not only fit his system but who potentially could be really good players — of course some won’t pan out. Do you agree or disageee with me that the difference between the number one class and the 22nd is developement more than pure talent? Can you see where Georgia has recruited talent that is more developed than the Corn’s class? Could this be the big difference between a three star and a four and five? If Frost continues to recruit well and develops these players as he says, will the Corn in four years or so close the gap in talent to an OSU?

I think many things can close the gap. I think good coaches who develop can make guys who are rated less by 247 and make as good or better than Ohio state talent. I think frosts scheme also closes the talent gap, I also think frost is an elite in game play caller which closes the gap. So I don't think we will need a top 5 class to beat those teams. As soon as the wins start rolling in as the program gets better year by year we will start to get top 10 classes. Then that top 10 talent combined with those other 3 things I mentioned will be scary for everyone who doesn't have an N on their helmet once again 

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I think development and coaching are huge. Look at Wisconsin, they are beating teams they shouldn't because they develop the right way and coach some underrated guys up. 

 

Nebraska needs to develop players better and coach them up so they can succeed. Honestly, we have the talent on this roster, best in the west in my opinion and according to the recruiting rankings. So its about time we start holding our weight and winning football games. There are countless guys that I am waiting to see live up to their potential, and I think in year one we will see some big-time offensive and defensive line improvements. 

 

Another factor with development and I think this gets overlooked is belief. Nebraska needs to go into big games playing to win and buying into what Scott wants them to do. If the players are properly prepared and coached they will overcome the talent deficiency. See Auburn and them getting pushed around by UCF, Frosts team believed they could win and bought in and guess what they won. 

 

To answer that question on Georgia, no we can't beat them right now and yes they have better players that they recruited. Georgia has an unreal class that is better than OSU's which is also insane!

 

It is a transition year and so things may take a little getting used to before we start seeing great results. Will it take 5 years? No, but we can and will get better talent here. With the superb coaching and development, that will make a top 15 class beat a top 3 class. 

 

 

 

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I'll say this much, I think Frost would trade our class for Georgia's if he could. Development is going to be the most effective method of putting together a good team, but adding blue chip players can make a great team. Ultimately having Frost is what we need to go to the next level and we do have enough clay on our team for Frost to sculpt a masterpiece, but as we improve look for Frost to improve the talent level as well. 

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People often talk about talent and development like they are mutually exclusive. The goal should be both. Stock pile top 15 talent, then develope them properly. 

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Development is obviously very important but Nebraska needs a talent upgrade if its going to consistently challenge the teams in the east. Being ranked 20-25 in recruiting is enough to win the west but if osu and psu have top ten class to go along with top notch coaching thats asking a lot of frost to make up the difference. 

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I don’t expect Frost to have consistent top 10 classes. I put my trust in his evaluation of talent and what fits his system. Some of his recruits will be four or five stars in his eyes, while they are actually rated three stars by the services. Yes some recruits will be rated four stars with the occasional five. But if Frost finds a few players under the radar that he thinks could be great players and there is little competition for them, he will go after them. This will lower the rankings some — thus a top 15 or even a top 20 with an occasional top 10. It all depends if the recruiting services agree his picks are rated as high as he thinks they are. I believe in the next five years if our classes average around 15, along with some really good walkons, we will be in great shape talent wise. 

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Great talent can make an average coach look very good. Nick Saban is an excellent example. He didn't do well at MSU, but he is killing it at Alabama.

I think the same could be said for average talent as well. Great coaches can do great things with average talent

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12 hours ago, MLB 51 said:

Great talent can make an average coach look very good. Nick Saban is an excellent example. He didn't do well at MSU, but he is killing it at Alabama.

I think the same could be said for average talent as well. Great coaches can do great things with average talent

Good point. Saban, because of the great talent he has, doesn’t have to do as much development perhaps as Frost. Thus it wouldn’t surprise me if Saban is not as good at developing players as some others. Wisconsin is an example of what you are talking about. Osborne’s early teams in the ‘70s and some in the ‘80s didn’t have great talent. He did quite well with it, except mainly Oklahoma exposed it. But that all changed from 1993-97 when we had tremendous talent. Osborne’s coaching generally didn’t change — except he did some minor  tweeks and changed the defense — but his recruiting certainly did change.    

Edited by Pedro G

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12 hours ago, MLB 51 said:

Great talent can make an average coach look very good. Nick Saban is an excellent example. He didn't do well at MSU, but he is killing it at Alabama.

I think the same could be said for average talent as well. Great coaches can do great things with average talent

to be fair saban took over a msu team that hadnt been to a bowl game in 5 years and was under ncaa sactions and had them ranked pretty high before he left.

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14 hours ago, MLB 51 said:

Great talent can make an average coach look very good. Nick Saban is an excellent example. He didn't do well at MSU, but he is killing it at Alabama.

I think the same could be said for average talent as well. Great coaches can do great things with average talent

 

True dat.  And another data point to consider is Bill Belichick.  Despite all the measures built into the NFL to ensure parity, he continues to dominate.  (Eagles fans might take exception.  But you know what I mean.  lol)   Belichick is a master at finding guys that have been cut or overlooked by other teams, picking them up for cents on the dollar,  and getting all-Pro performance out of them.  What Belichick does is really a third category separate from (known) Talent and Development:  He recognizes overlooked talent.     Let's hope Frost's staff can do this as well.  GBR!  

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5 hours ago, Pedro G said:

Good point. Saban, because of the great talent he has, doesn’t have to do as much development perhaps as Frost. Thus it wouldn’t surprise me if Saban is not as good at developing players as some others. Wisconsin is an example of what you are talking about. Osborne’s early teams in the ‘70s and some in the ‘80s didn’t have great talent. He did quite well with it, except mainly Oklahoma exposed it. But that all changed from 1993-97 when we had tremendous talent. Osborne’s coaching generally didn’t change — except he did some minor  tweeks and changed the defense — but his recruiting certainly did change.    

Or Saban is really good at doing both, recruiting talent and developing it, and that's why he's on the most dominant run in college football history. 

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This question seems to come every year. To me it’s really an odd question. 

 

Talent or development????  

 

Hmmm. To me they are 1A and 1B and it’s illogical to think otherwise. 

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45 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

This question seems to come every year. To me it’s really an odd question. 

 

Talent or development????  

 

Hmmm. To me they are 1A and 1B and it’s illogical to think otherwise. 

I brought up this question because some fans believe to get back into the NC race, we consistently will have to have top 10 or top five recruiting classes. TO in his later years proved that he could develop three and four stars into fours and fives. Frost certainly will go after overlooked players who are under the radar and who he feels can be potentially just as good and fits his system, in addition to the ones who are rated high by the services. Thus we may end up with great classes — hopefully — that are rated anywhere from 20th to 5th. I’m not seeing us getting consistent top 10 classes simply because of Frost finding diamonds in the rough. Let’s hope he is that good in finding talent.  

Edited by Pedro G

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The thing is, recruiting rankings (as far as I can tell) mainly project a players NFL prospects.  Now that is merely a guess and I could be wrong.

 

It also depends on what positions we're talking about.  For "skill" positions: QB, RB, WR, CB, and S/FS...it is mostly about talent.  Yes there is development, but that basically gets the kid bigger and stronger.

 

For other positions: TE, OL, DT, DE, LB...development is more important than "talent" or star ranking.  Note: I am not saying talent isn't important, or Nebraska should recruit kids with minimal to no talent...it's just not as pressing as the other positions I listed above.

 

For example, along the OL, you can recruit a bunch of walk-ons and coach/develop them into a great unit.  Conversely, RBs either see that backside hole or they don't.  Maybe not a perfect analogy, but good enough for what I am talking about. 

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7 minutes ago, Making Chimichangas said:

The thing is, recruiting rankings (as far as I can tell) mainly project a players NFL prospects.  Now that is merely a guess and I could be wrong.

 

Not so much.  There would barely be any five-star and high-four-star dual threat QBs if this were the case.  It's how they are projected to fit in college.

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247 has a good explanation of how they rate players.  I can’t find the link from the mobile version otherwise I would link it.

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