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Parkland, FL High School Shooting


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11 hours ago, ZRod said:

Not really. Here's my point: Shouldn't there be more training, and restrictions for an object who's main function is to destroy/kill, than say one that is meant for transportation?

 

59 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Basically everyone here is on board with making it harder for bad people to obtain guns.  That wasn't the discussion.  See above.

I already stated that I misread what was posted. The discussion moved on from. See the top quote in this post. Sorry my formatting sucks on my phone.

 

You keep wanting to argue the semantics of an analogy, and now you're accusing me of wanting to ban all guns. Putting words in my mouth the same way you were mad at commando for doing to you.

 

No I would rather not ban all guns. I've said before in this threadb I've enjoyed recreational shooting and see the merits in hunting and other firearms sports, but I do not think civilians need access to AR style weapons or similar. I think we should require much more training for a firearm, probably even a license, and we should probably increase penalties for firearm related violations.

Edited by ZRod
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1 minute ago, ZRod said:

 

I already stated that I misread what was posted. The discussion moved on from. See the top quote in this post. Sorry my formatting sucks on my phone.

 

You keep wanting to argue the semantics of an analogy. And now you're accusine of wanting to van all guns. Putting words in my mouth the same way you were mad at commando for doing to you.

 

No I would rather not ban all guns. I've said before in this thread, I've enjoyed recreational shooting and see the merits in hunting and other firearms sports. But I do not think civilians need access to AR style weapons or similar. 

 

Your analogy better fits the ban all guns narrative because driving drunk is illegal period.  Methanphetamines are illegal period.  Guns aren't illegal unless you are specifically prohibited from buying and owning one.  So the analogy doesn't fit, hence my disagreement wirh it.  And commando suggesting I advocated school shiotings out of laziness is a far cry from me suggesting you want to ban all guns based off of an apples and oranges analogy.

 

I get what point you were trying to make, but it's just not the same.  I am seeing suggestions being made and that's  great.  But any discussion that doesn't want to look at the issue of black market guns or home made weapons is only self serving.  Stricter gun laws sound great, but maybe the focus should be on the illegal weapons and the illegal ownership and the illegal means of maintaining said weapons and the bad people who do these things.

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Just now, Redux said:

 

Your analogy better fits the ban all guns narrative because driving drunk is illegal period.  Methanphetamines are illegal period.  Guns aren't illegal unless you are specifically prohibited from buying and owning one.  So the analogy doesn't fit, hence my disagreement wirh it.  And commando suggesting I advocated school shiotings out of laziness is a far cry from me suggesting you want to ban all guns based off of an apples and oranges analogy.

 

I get what point you were trying to make, but it's just not the same.  I am seeing suggestions being made and that's  great.  But any discussion that doesn't want to look at the issue of black market guns or home made weapons is only self serving.  Stricter gun laws sound great, but maybe the focus should be on the illegal weapons and the illegal ownership and the illegal means of maintaining said weapons and the bad people who do these things.

Yes, we should focus on the black market as well, there is an agency already tasked with that (formally the ATF). Admittedly I have no idea how good or bad of a job they are doing. But all these mass shooters seem to get their guns legally...

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Just now, ZRod said:

Yes, we should focus on the black market as well, there is an agency already tasked with that (formally the ATF). Admittedly I have no idea how good or bad of a job they are doing. But all these mass shooters seem to get their guns legally...

Bingo! The whole, "well people will just buy guns illegally" narrative is BS. Maybe not BS, but it is probably less likely that these guys that are shooting up schools would have the wherewithal to purchase them illegally. Even if it isn't a huge success, something has to change. This is absolutely ridiculous. 

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5 minutes ago, HuskerNBigD said:

Bingo! The whole, "well people will just buy guns illegally" narrative is BS. Maybe not BS, but it is probably less likely that these guys that are shooting up schools would have the wherewithal to purchase them illegally. Even if it isn't a huge success, something has to change. This is absolutely ridiculous. 

The scary thing I think about all the time is how, for lack of a better term, amateur these shooters are. Except for the Vegas incident, we are lucky that things weren't far, far worse. The first and only time I shot an AR I thought "wow what a fun gun", then my next thought was "holy crap, that was way too easy!" At close range when nothing is fighting back I feel like you can't miss...

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On 2/19/2018 at 8:53 AM, ZRod said:

Yes, we should focus on the black market as well, there is an agency already tasked with that (formally the ATF). Admittedly I have no idea how good or bad of a job they are doing. But all these mass shooters seem to get their guns legally...

 

Many do, yes.  But when that option goes away, the black market route comes into play.  It's not BS.  Stopping the problem at the source is the solution.  Not just hoping it goes away by removing availability to an instrument.  The FBI failed in this particular instance.

Edited by Redux
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9 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Many do, yes.  But when that option goes away, the black market route comes into play.  It's not BS.  Stopping the problem at the source is the solution.  Not just hoping it goes away by removing availability to an instrument.  Thr FBI failed in this particular instance.

They did, and he got a gun legally. So both "systems" failed. I'm sure the FBI is learning, discipling, and correcting the issue. They almost always do. Our government on the other hand is not. Paul Ryan doesn't want to talk about it...

 

If we make it harder to get a gun legally than some of these incidents may not occur. Either because the person decides it's not worth the effort, or the get caught trying to subvert the system.

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4 minutes ago, Redux said:

Yes, and hopefully they do make it harder.  I can wait 2 weeks to get a gun if need be, etc.

 

But it doesn't solve hate, and hate is the problem here.

You solve that one and you'll be the greatest human to ever live.

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51 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Many do, yes.  But when that option goes away, the black market route comes into play.  It's not BS.  Stopping the problem at the source is the solution.  Not just hoping it goes away by removing availability to an instrument.  Thr FBI failed in this particular instance.

The black market isn't some corner store with "close out" prices.  I would be happy if we at least got to the point of that being the only source.  Prices alone would keep the guns out of the hands of some of these kids.  Not to mention a random teenager isn't going to be able to Google search where to find a source.  They'll have to ask friends and acquaintances for help which would hopefully raise some red flags.  Using the recent example: I can't picture a kid like Cruz wandering around rough neighborhoods and striking up conversations with community members assuming they are gang members and asking where he can get a gun.  

Edited by funhusker
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I also think this is a prime example of how flawed our government is. No better example to show how people can be bought than by shooting up schools full of children for 30+ years and no serious legislation comes as a result. Wonder how quickly things would change if it was a private school in the northeast? That statement sounds creepy, but it is an honest question that these legislatures should ask themselves? How would their thoughts and prayers change if it were a school full of the congressmen and woman sons and daughters? Or what if it were the sons and daughters of some of the larger donors? I'd expect almost immediate change, sort of like the vast overhaul as a result of the FBI building being blown up in OKC.

Edited by HuskerNBigD
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1 minute ago, funhusker said:

The black market isn't some corner store with "close out" prices.  I would be happy if we got to the point of that being the only source.  Prices alone would keep the guns out of the hands of some of these kids.  Not to mention a random teenager isn't going to be able to Google search where to find a source.  They'll have to ask friends and acquaintances for help which would hopefully raise some red flags.  Using the recent example: I can't picture a kid like Cruz wandering around rough neighborhoods and striking up conversations with community members assuming they are gang members and asking where he can get a gun.  

Ding Ding Ding. Winner winner, chicken dinner.

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