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knapplc

Trump Fires Tillerson For Condemning Putin/Russia

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Trump has had a rocky relationship with Secretary of State Rex Tillerson for months, mostly because Tillerson doesn't adhere to Trump's policy of kowtowing to Russia, but Trump has taken pains to assure everyone that Tillerson is his guy.

 

 

Yesterday, Trump's White House refused to name Russia as responsible for the nerve agent attack on a former Russian spy on British soil, failing to support our greatest ally in their allegations against Putin. 

 


Rex Tillerson wasn't having that, and directly stated that Russia was the culprit. 

 

 

Less than 24 hours later, Trump fires Tillerson.

 

 

The spin from Team Trump is that Tillerson was fired last week, effective today. 

 

It's a lie. 

 

Tillerson left on a diplomatic trip to Africa, scheduled to last through Tuesday.  You don't go on that trip if you're already fired. 

 

There's a clear line of progression here.

 

Russia poisons ex-spy Skripal

Britain names Russia as the culprit

Trump refuses to back Britian

Tillerson states unequivocally that Russia is to blame

Trump fires Tillerson

 

"No Collusion."   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

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Reports are coming out that Tillerson was fired before the weekend: 

 

 

And Congress will sit on its hands...

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I never understood why he would have even wanted that job in the first place. Never liked him, but he seemed to not be completely batsh!t. 

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Just now, Fru said:

I never understood why he would have even wanted that job in the first place. Never liked him, but he seemed to not be completely batsh!t. 

 

"Secretary of State" looks awfully good on a business card. 

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3 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

 

"Secretary of State" looks awfully good on a business card. 

 

True. But is it really worth it to be Sec of State for the most repugnant President ever? 

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5 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

Reports are coming out that Tillerson was fired before the weekend: 

 

 

And Congress will sit on its hands...

 

Yep, and it's a lie. I addressed that already knowing that would be the spin. 

 

If he was fired last week there's no reason to send him on a diplomatic trip to Africa.

If he was fired last week there's no reason to abruptly end that trip before it's scheduled to end. 

If he was fired last week it would have been announced 1) last Friday in Trump's typical news-burying dump, or 2) Monday when business resumed.

If he was fired last week his replacement would have been announced Monday in some kind of show.

 

This was clearly another Trump temper tantrum because someone didn't kowtow to Trump's constant refrain of "Russia didn't do anything wrong."

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1 minute ago, Fru said:

 

True. But is it really worth it to be Sec of State for the most repugnant President ever? 

 

Depends; Henry Kissinger was no saint, but he's still "Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger". 

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4 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Yep, and it's a lie. I addressed that already knowing that would be the spin. 

 

If he was fired last week there's no reason to send him on a diplomatic trip to Africa.

If he was fired last week there's no reason to abruptly end that trip before it's scheduled to end. 

If he was fired last week it would have been announced 1) last Friday in Trump's typical news-burying dump, or 2) Monday when business resumed.

If he was fired last week his replacement would have been announced Monday in some kind of show.

 

This was clearly another Trump temper tantrum because someone didn't kowtow to Trump's constant refrain of "Russia didn't do anything wrong."

 

And here's that shoe beginning to drop: 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Cdog923

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4 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

 

Depends; Henry Kissinger was no saint, but he's still "Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger". 

 

I guess the way I saw it was "Hey, you can continue on with your cushy oil exec job, making zillions of dollars or you can quit that to go work for a madman in one of the most challenging and highly scrutinized cabinet roles." 

 

Even if you get to put the job title on your resume, I'm not sure it'd have been worth it. 

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I just got a CNN alert saying Tillerson was blindsided.

 

As soon as I saw it, my initial thought was basically what Knapp laid out. Tillerson spoke out definitively against Russia yesterday. There's been plenty of reports about Trump's worsening disposition inside the White House with staff exiting & continual bad news on the Mueller front & generally everywhere else.

 

I'm almost 100% sure he was fired for contradicting Trump. The man's got a hair trigger right now & that's about all it would take.

 

Of course, it's going to be difficult to parse out. This administration is chock full of liars. The only time they ever tell the honest truth is anonymously to reporters, but even then they'll lie a lot of the time.

 

@Cdog923 Tillerson was without a doubt the worst SOS of my lifetime. Completely ineffectual.

Edited by Clifford Franklin

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Just now, FrankWheeler said:

I would be shocked if Gina Haspel gets confirmed as CIA Director based on her past.

 

Does anyone know anything about her? Never heard of her.

 

Somewhat presumptuous but it seems to me Trump enjoys getting kudos for picking women. The GOP instagram made a story out of it the other day.

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Just now, Clifford Franklin said:

 

Does anyone know anything about her? Never heard of her.

 

Somewhat presumptuous but it seems to me Trump enjoys getting kudos for picking women. The GOP instagram made a story out of it the other day.

 

From her Wiki page:

 

Quote

Haspel ran a "black site" CIA prison located in Thailand in 2002.[5][6] The site was codenamed "Cat’s Eye" and held suspected al Qaeda members Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri and Abu Zubaydah for a time. The Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA torture specifies that during their detention at the site they were waterboarded and interrogated using no longer authorized methods.[7][8] Declassified CIA cables specify that Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times in a month, was sleep deprived, kept in a "large box", had his head slammed against a wall and he lost his left eye. Zubaydah was deemed, by the CIA interrogators, to not be in possession of any useful intelligence (Interrogation of Abu Zubaydah).[9]

 

 

Quote

On February 2, 2017, President Donald Trump appointed Haspel deputy director of the CIA. On February 8, 2017, several members of the Senate intelligence committee urged Trump to reconsider his appointment of Haspel as Deputy Director.[12] Senator Sheldon Whitehouse quoted colleagues Ron Wyden and Martin Heinrich who were on the committee:

I am especially concerned by reports that this individual was involved in the unauthorized destruction of CIA interrogation videotapes, which documented the CIA’s use of torture against two CIA detainees. My colleagues Senators Wyden and Heinrich have stated that classified information details why the newly appointed Deputy Director is 'unsuitable' for the position and have requested that this information be declassified. I join their request.

 

 

Quote

On December 17, 2014, the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights pressed criminal charges against unidentified CIA operatives, after the US Senate Select Committee published its report on torture by US intelligence agencies.

 

On June 7, 2017, the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights called on the Public Prosecutor General of Germany to issue an arrest warrant against Haspel over claims she oversaw the torture of terrorism suspects. The complaint against her is centered on the case of Saudi national Abu Zubaydah.[16][17][18]

 

 

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1 minute ago, Clifford Franklin said:

Somewhat presumptuous but it seems to me Trump enjoys getting kudos for picking  sexually assaulting and paying women. The GOP instagram made a story out of it the other day.

 

FFA

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Trump didn't even have the guts to fire Tillerson face-to-face.  What a weakling of a man. 

 

 

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Just now, commando said:

the nazi is strong with this 1.  she will fit right in

 

I didn't include the part where she destroyed the video tapes of all of this craziness either...

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1 minute ago, FrankWheeler said:

 

I didn't include the part where she destroyed the video tapes of all of this craziness either...

that part was included in the  links

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Just now, commando said:

that part was included in the  links

 

You are correct, my fault!  There are a lot of tapes with this administration.

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3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Trump didn't even have the guts to fire Tillerson face-to-face.  What a weakling of a man. 

 

 

 

Wow. Same way he did Comey.

 

@FrankWheeler Thanks for that. After doing some reading on Pompeo's positions, he's pretty much in the same mold. Likes Gitmo, like CIA black sites, favors NoKo regime change, undermined the Iran deal, pretty fervently anti-Muslim.


This is not someone who is going to act as a check on Trump's worst impulses. If you can say Tillerson did that.

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12 minutes ago, FrankWheeler said:

Haspel ran a "black site" CIA prison located in Thailand in 2002.[5][6] The site was codenamed "Cat’s Eye" and held suspected al Qaeda members Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri and Abu Zubaydah for a time. The Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA torture specifies that during their detention at the site they were waterboarded and interrogated using no longer authorized methods.[7][8] Declassified CIA cables specify that Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times in a month, was sleep deprived, kept in a "large box", had his head slammed against a wall and he lost his left eye. Zubaydah was deemed, by the CIA interrogators, to not be in possession of any useful intelligence (Interrogation of Abu Zubaydah).[9]

 

 

Sounds like Trump's kind of CIA director.

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1 hour ago, Cdog923 said:

Reports are coming out that Tillerson was fired before the weekend: 

 

 

And Congress will sit on its hands...

And so he flew to Africa and $hit hits the fan in the US while he's there?  I doubt it.

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Lest anyone thinks this thread is an endorsement of Tillerson, here's some perspective on one of Trump's "best people" (that he always ends up firing or driving away). It's not.

 

Tillerson was awful as Sec of State.  Let's be clear.

 

Quote

 

Rex Tillerson has been fired. Experts say he did damage that could last “a generation.”

 

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson was fired by President Donald Trump, according to White House officials’ statements on Tuesday morning.

 

He was in office for a little over a year, one of the shortest tenures in modern history — and it was not, experts say, a distinguished one.

 

“Tillerson would be at or near the bottom of the list of secretaries of state, not just in the post-Second World War world but in the record of US secretaries of state,” says Paul Musgrave, a scholar of US foreign policy at the University of Massachusetts Amherst.

 

The former Exxon Mobil CEO, whose nomination was initially greeted warmly by prominent foreign policy hands, will leave office without any major accomplishments. This is largely because he failed to wield any significant influence in internal administration debates over issues like North Korea or Russia, and in fact actively alienated the president during several key policy debates.

 

His push to slash “inefficiencies” in the State Department and seeming disinterest in working closely with longtime staff were even more damaging. Under Tillerson’s watch, 60 percent of State’s top-ranking career diplomats resigned and new applications to join the foreign service fell by half, according to a November count by the American Foreign Service Association.

 

This hollowing-out of the foreign service, combined with Tillerson’s inability to appoint people to vital positions like ambassador to South Korea, delayed American responses to major crises and weakened the State Department for a “generation,” according to George Washington University’s Elizabeth Saunders.

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Tillerson was awful as Sec of State.  Let's be clear.

 

He was.  But, I find myself disappointed in this change because I also thought he at least resembled an adult in the room that was willing to say how he felt and not just say what Trump wanted to hear.

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I really don't see a world where someone like Tillerson doesn't make Mueller his first call after seeing that tweet.

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6 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

I really don't see a world where someone like Tillerson doesn't make Mueller his first call after seeing that tweet.

Unless Tillerson is implicated or just doesn't want to get involved.

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Trump's hair trigger response has me very concern. His mental health has to be questioned at this point.  The admin is falling apart in spades and he is the common denominator. 

Some adult needs to come forward and address Amendment 25 issues.  If not, Mueller needs to PLEASE HURRY UP AND GET THIS GUY CHARGED.! 

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Tillerson was awful, indeed. He basically showed up, broke everything at the State Department ("restructuring"), forced out a mass exodus of our best diplomatic talent & left.

 

His word as a SOS was worthless because any time the president disagreed with what he said he'd hop on Twitter and let everyone know.

 

Adult in the room or no, the damage he inflicted on the State Department will take a long time to fix.

 

Based on reading I've done on Pompeo's contempt for the MO of his own CIA, he's not going to be the one doing the fixing.

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This all happened in just over 13 months.  This is the kind of chaos Trump loves, but not the kind of leadership America deserves.

 

wcXArww.jpg

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1 hour ago, NM11046 said:

And so he flew to Africa and $hit hits the fan in the US while he's there?  I doubt it.

 

Yea, it's evolved since then; it's pretty clear he was fired yesterday.

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1 hour ago, knapplc said:

Lest anyone thinks this thread is an endorsement of Tillerson, here's some perspective on one of Trump's "best people" (that he always ends up firing or driving away). It's not.

 

Tillerson was awful as Sec of State.  Let's be clear.

 

 

The problem is, these aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. 

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The rationale for Tillerson accepting a job he didn't want is reportedly similar to John Kelly and General Mattis: they could tell Trump really needed them and thought they could be a voice of reason in an administration of novices and grandstanders.

 

I'm sure I don't align with these three guys politically, but they retained a bit of integrity that many in the clown car lacked. 

 

If they are indeed patriots with integrity, they could prove it by going public with the President's dangerous dysfunction. 

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I heard Rush in the car during lunch today.  Not surprising he sees all of this as a positive.  Here is my paraphrase of what he said:

1.  Trump has a new level of confidence - as in self confidence. Trump recently said he doesn't need so many advisors.  He's good to go on his own.

2. Trump felt compelled when he was newly elected to get 'competent people' who could help him wt the learning curve. 

3. DC Insiders encouraged Trump to hire people who didn't always agree wt him but who were competent - thus Tillerson

4.  Tillerson and Trump disagreed on many things - climate change, Russia, Iran, etc

5. Trump riding the wave of confidence can now be rid of staff who don't think like him

6.  Trump can now have staff that think like him.

7.  Trump will now proceed to make decision without the encumbrance of advisors and he can rely on his own intuition and wisdom.

8. There will be greater unity in the admin with these staff changes.  (Yes men make no waves.  Yes that is how we want govt to operate :sarcasm)

 

I wanted to do this:facepalm:  but I was driving.    The blind hypocrisy of much of the conservative press (at least the talking heads in talk radio & Fox News) is a big reason why I may vote Dem just to reset the narrative & the structure in DC.   If the repubs in Congress or any adults in the admin (I'm looking straight at you Mike Pence - stop hiding behind that half smile/smirk and your shallow words of support) do not have enough ethical courage to do the right thing and remove this guy, then it is time to vote in Dems who will.  This is more important than our (my) pet political philosophy (economic, social, etc).  With this guy in the office, none of our political opinions or positions will matter when he is done destroying our rule of law, constitutional safe guards and traditions. 

 

We need a drastic reset in DC.  Every day it gets clearer and clearer.:boxosoap

:rant

Edited by TGHusker

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Maybe Trump should unencumber himself of the legislative and judicial branches while he's at it.

 

I'm sure Rush and Hannity would be first in line to tell us it's what's best for the country.

Edited by Moiraine

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15 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

The rationale for Tillerson accepting a job he didn't want is reportedly similar to John Kelly and General Mattis: they could tell Trump really needed them and thought they could be a voice of reason in an administration of novices and grandstanders.

 

I'm sure I don't align with these three guys politically, but they retained a bit of integrity that many in the clown car lacked. 

 

If they are indeed patriots with integrity, they could prove it by going public with the President's dangerous dysfunction. 

The bold - as I note in my post above - if they are men of character - now is the time to act and not slink back into the shadows of political expediency . If they don't

how far down the road do we all look back in regret that they failed to act.  What would be said of them.  Every despot who became a despot had to overcome those men of

character at an early stage - either those men failed to act and lived to regret it  or they were silenced.  Today Trump silences people with his rudeness & ridacule and making show of those he disagrees with or firing them when possible - what about tomorrow? What greater measures will he take to silence the voices that disagrees with him? 

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Washington Post

 

 

Quote

 

Tillerson said he received a call from Trump around noon Tuesday, more than three hours after his firing was first reported by The Washington Post and announced minutes later in a tweet from the president.

 

His voice quivering, Tillerson thanked career diplomats for their “honesty and integrity” and the American people for “acts of kindness,” and singled out Defense Secretary James Mattis for their partnership and mutual support of diplomacy, but notably did not thank Trump or praise his policies.

 

Tillerson said he will remain in his post until March 31, but is delegating all authorities for running the State Department to Deputy Secretary John Sullivan and is committed to ensuring “an orderly and smooth transition.” The deposed diplomat also made a clear statement about Russian aggression: “Much work remains to respond to the troubling behavior and actions on the part of the Russian government.”

 

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2 hours ago, knapplc said:

This all happened in just over 13 months.  This is the kind of chaos Trump loves, but not the kind of leadership America deserves.

 

wcXArww.jpg

And they say their isn't chaos in the WH:facepalm:

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Remember when Trump tweeted about how horrible Obama was because he had too much turnover?




Yeah....didn't think so.

 

#hirethebestpeople

Edited by BigRedBuster

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2 hours ago, Cdog923 said:

 

Yea, it's evolved since then; it's pretty clear he was fired yesterday.

 

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4 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

 

 

This is after news broke that Trump had one of his aides tell Tillerson yesterday that he was done. In fact, Tillerson's aide that contradicted the WH's official statement was ALSO just fired. 

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3 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

 

This is after news broke that Trump had one of his aides tell Tillerson yesterday that he was done. In fact, Tillerson's aide that contradicted the WH's official statement was ALSO just fired. 

26bd7q.jpg

 

Just now, schriznoeder said:

 

I'm sure he just accidentally choked on a crumpet.

 

I think anyone would choke on a crumpet laced with a biological weapon. 

Edited by VectorVictor

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