IT Giants - Too big to be governed?

[TGHusker]

This article begs the question and thus the poll.  Are these tech giants too big?  Is it time for govt to step in and do what they

did to Standard Oil over a century ago - break up the monopoly? 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/facebook-google-too-big-french-president-emmanuel-macron-ai-artificial-intelligence-regulate-govern-a8283726.html

 

 

[funhusker]

There might be some room for discussion on #2 and #3, but not on Facebook in my opinion.  Facebook is about 5-10 years away from being the next MySpace.  I deal with high school and middle school students, none of them use Facebook.  It's all about the SnapChat.

 

Facebook made a run and will adapt it's business model somehow.  But I don't see it being much of a social media presence when it's customers no longer use the account because of disgust, boredom, or death....

[TGHusker]

12 minutes ago, funhusker said:

There might be some room for discussion on #2 and #3, but not on Facebook in my opinion.  Facebook is about 5-10 years away from being the next MySpace.  I deal with high school and middle school students, none of them use Facebook.  It's all about the SnapChat.

 

Facebook made a run and will adapt it's business model somehow.  But I don't see it being much of a social media presence when it's customers no longer use the account because of disgust, boredom, or death....

I agree. I think FB will soon be shown as a flash in the pan vs a long standing viable company. They will need to remake themselves soon or Mr Z will start cashing out his shares to any fool willing to buy them.

[TGHusker]

I'm probably more concern about Google's power than Amazon.  I believe close to 90% of searches are done via google (please correct me if wrong - seems like that was the # I read the other day).  If you control and filter that much info, you have a lot of power. 

[Moiraine]

Not sure. Maybe Amazon shouldn't be allowed to run a brick and mortar grocery store. Maybe Wal-mart shouldn't be allowed to buy Humana.

Or, we could have protections in place to better prevent monopolies from occurring and reverse the trend towards the country becoming an oligarchy. E.g., companies like Wal-mart should not be able to write/buy policy that helps them and hurts the competition. Amazon customers probably should have been paying state taxes from day one.


^ Snapchat has been going downhill the past couple months.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Moiraine

[Landlord]

2 hours ago, funhusker said:

There might be some room for discussion on #2 and #3, but not on Facebook in my opinion.  Facebook is about 5-10 years away from being the next MySpace.  I deal with high school and middle school students, none of them use Facebook.  It's all about the SnapChat.

 

Facebook made a run and will adapt it's business model somehow.  But I don't see it being much of a social media presence when it's customers no longer use the account because of disgust, boredom, or death....

 

 

I don't think this is true at all. First of all, Facebook is still the biggest social media platform by a landslide. In fact, if you include facebook, facebook messenger, whatsapp, and instagram as separate platforms, which are all facebook entities (and 4 of the top 10 biggest social platforms), there are well over four billion more active users than Snapchat.

 

Second, Facebook is already not the next MySpace. MySpace was a 4-5 year product that never innovated, and focused solely on the demographic of people using it's platform to connect socially. Facebook has already dominated for a decade, it's existence is essentially the reason Donald Trump is President (talk about power), and teenagers actually using the platform to connect with their friends is the last of their concerns. If you're right and 10 years from now Facebook goes the way of the dinosaurs, that's still a 20 year run of social domination the likes of which humanity hasn't seen. They're interested in ad revenue, integration into key services in the rest of your life (every single website has a 'login with facebook' and a 'share to facebook' option), and being a behind the scenes leader in future tech ventures like VR, "free" internet, machine learning algorithms, etc. 

[Making Chimichangas]

I think Facebook should be left alone because nobody needs to be on that site--it is purely voluntary.

 

Google and Amazon though, should absolutely be broken up and sold off to separate companies/owners.

 

I have zero faith in the "free market."  And we already live in an oligarchy.  A handful of billionaires basically own everything right now.  Malls across America are steadily going out of business because of Amazon.  Wal-Mart has been killing small businesses across the country for decades.

 

I'll tell you what we REALLY need, and that is a 10 mile wide asteroid to collide with the Earth.  Reset humanity back to the stone age.

[TGHusker]

8 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

I think Facebook should be left alone because nobody needs to be on that site--it is purely voluntary.

 

Google and Amazon though, should absolutely be broken up and sold off to separate companies/owners.

 

I have zero faith in the "free market."  And we already live in an oligarchy.  A handful of billionaires basically own everything right now.  Malls across America are steadily going out of business because of Amazon.  Wal-Mart has been killing small businesses across the country for decades.

 

I'll tell you what we REALLY need, and that is a 10 mile wide asteroid to collide with the Earth.  Reset humanity back to the stone age.

The bold - that will surely cure things --     Maybe a EMP will do. 

[TGHusker]

8 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

I think Facebook should be left alone because nobody needs to be on that site--it is purely voluntary.

 

Google and Amazon though, should absolutely be broken up and sold off to separate companies/owners.

 

I have zero faith in the "free market."  And we already live in an oligarchy.  A handful of billionaires basically own everything right now.  Malls across America are steadily going out of business because of Amazon.  Wal-Mart has been killing small businesses across the country for decades.

 

I'll tell you what we REALLY need, and that is a 10 mile wide asteroid to collide with the Earth.  Reset humanity back to the stone age.

There are benefits and disadvantages to our free market society.  We do not have a truly free market economy - if we did there would be less govt regulation.  We have also allowed large companies to gain controlling market share - thus limiting the 'free' side of the market society.

The Soviet union was an example of a failed highly regulated economy.  China is a highly regulated society.  Both limit individual freedoms as a result of high regulation.  China had the mass movement of populations from rural areas to create their large urban manufacturing centers.  Russia had their collective farms, etc. 

These articles discusses advantages and disadvantages of the free market society.

https://www.intelligenteconomist.com/free-market/

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/free-market-regulation.asp

[Ric Flair]

16 hours ago, TGHusker said:

I'm probably more concern about Google's power than Amazon.  I believe close to 90% of searches are done via google (please correct me if wrong - seems like that was the # I read the other day).  If you control and filter that much info, you have a lot of power. 

 

And there have been credible claims, investigations, and now lawsuits, claiming that Google uses their control of internet searches to make it very difficult for users to find any alternate search engines. So they use their market power to hinder their competition and keep consumers from finding them. Where are the anti-trust authorities on this?

[NUance]

Google, Facebook and Amazon are NOTHING like Standard Oil.  Standard Oil maintained a stranglehold on the market through predatory practices that drove competitors out of business.  The same could be said of Ma Bell (pre-breakup) and maybe even Microsoft.   But for Google, Facebook and Amazon, anyone can access an alternative with only a few keystrokes.  Maybe the alternatives just need to up their game.  /gets off soapbox.     

[TGHusker]

17 minutes ago, NUance said:

Google, Facebook and Amazon are NOTHING like Standard Oil.  Standard Oil maintained a stranglehold on the market through predatory practices that drove competitors out of business.  The same could be said of Ma Bell (pre-breakup) and maybe even Microsoft.   But for Google, Facebook and Amazon, anyone can access an alternative with only a few keystrokes.  Maybe the alternatives just need to up their game.  /gets off soapbox.     

NU, very true about Standard Oil.   That is how the Rockefeller clan became rich.  In many ways the break up of Ma Bell led to some of the innovative products we currently have.  Many are too young to know that we use to 'lease' or 'rent' our land line phones from Ma Bell.  What a cash cow. If they had been able to keep all of that power, we may not have had the technical innovation  we enjoy today in how we  communicate. 

 

https://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/15/may-15-1911-supreme-court-orders-standard-oil-to-be-broken-up/

Quote

 

In 1882, Mr. Rockefeller joined with his partners to create the Standard Oil Trust, which controlled a large number of companies that allowed Standard to control refining, distribution, marketing and other aspects of the oil industry. Standard eventually gained control of nearly 90 percent of the country’s oil production.

Standard’s domination of the oil industry came under criticism from both the public and the government. In 1890, Congress passed the Sherman Antitrust Act in an attempt to restrain the power of trusts, banning “every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce.” Standard lost a Sherman-related lawsuit in Ohio in 1892, but it was later able to incorporate in New Jersey as a holding company.

In the early 1900s, after Mr. Rockefeller had retired from Standard, the muckraking journalist Ida Tarbell published a series of articles in McClure’s magazine. The series portrayed Mr. Rockefeller and Standard Oil as ruthless and immoral, and the articles contributed to public outrage against Standard.

 

Ma Bell:

Quote

 

This article tells of hopes and concerns of the Ma Bell break up.  The last paragraph is an understatement if there ever was one:

And the nation will have to adjust to life without Ma Bell. ''There's going to be some pain to come,'' Mr. Ellinghaus of A.T.&T. said. ''Nineteen eighty-four is going to be a troublesome year. People are going to have to get used to a lot of new things.''

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1984/01/01/us/bell-system-breakup-opens-era-of-great-expectations-and-great-concern.html

Edited April 3, 2018 by TGHusker

[Enhance]

Why shouldn't Google be able to limit access to their competitors on their own product? Google is not a synonym for search engine. It is a tool.

 

I 100% agree with @NUance. That's not a Google problem - that's Google's competitor's problem.

[BigRedBuster]

I answered "NO" to all three basically because the only other option is to "break them up".

 

How would you break up a company like Facebook?  

Now, I do believe they have so much influence on our lives and internet information that there could be some reasonable regulations put in.  For instance, it should be illegal for any of these companies to sell the rights to our private information without us knowing it and our approval.  Amazon should be required to collect sales tax on all sales even if it's another company selling through them.

 

I'm sure there are more, but these are simple changes that everyone should support.

[Landlord]

12 hours ago, Enhance said:

Why shouldn't Google be able to limit access to their competitors on their own product? Google is not a synonym for search engine. It is a tool.

 

I 100% agree with @NUance. That's not a Google problem - that's Google's competitor's problem.

 

 

Yep. I fail to see how that makes Google a bad guy, when they're a company designed to make themselves money.

 

If the internet were considered a utility for public good, legally speaking, that would be a different case. But as it is, it isn't, and as such, private entities like Google and Facebook are free to do pretty much whatever they want legally and if you want to take part you can, if not then don't.